Dan Curry, Visual Effects Producer on "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" and "Star Trek: Voyager." Dan also frequently serves as the "second unit director" on these shows.
Question: I know you are a martial arts enthusiast and created the bat'leth for Worf and the rest of the Klingons. How do you feel about its acceptance into certain Korean martial arts tournaments?
SnuTrekker
Dan Curry: It's gratifying that the bat'leth has been accepted as one of the few new bladed weapons that is actually practical. The Navy department of research and the FBI have also asked for tracings of the bat'leth for their own research purposes. Even as a child, it always annoyed me when weapons in movies were not ergonomically practical or if it was clear that the actors using them had never seen them before.
I had been thinking of the weapon that was named the bat'leth on Star Trek for years and when we had an episode that called for Worf inheriting a Klingon bladed weapon, I made a foam-core mock-up of the bat'leth and showed it to the producers and told them it would be possible to evolve a new martial art around it. My main regret is not patenting it.
Fans have sent me videos of them using the bat'leth in martial arts competitions and regretably many of them use a "chop chop" style and miss the point that it should be used very fluidly, taking advantage of the natural momentum swinging it would generate. It should be noted that the manufacture and sale of bat'leths is considered by Paramount a copyright infringement and can lead to legal problems.
I also designed the mek'leth and the sword of Kahless. When Michael Dorn signed onto Deep Space Nine, he called me before the season began, saying "Daniel, I need a new weapon."
(spoken in a good Michael Dorn impression!)
DC: Michael came over to my house and we worked out the design of the Mek'leth in cardboard and worked out a special fighting style for it. The sword of Kahless was a more primordial and baroque version of the bat'leth with a special central disemboweling flange.
Q: With the use of C.G.I in the industry as a whole do you think the the only limit to visual effects is our own imagination.
Martin
DC: That's always been the case. But now we don't have to deal with the physical limitations of model mounts and track lengths. Creating large numbers of ships in a single shot has become much easier using CG technology. However, visual effects ultimately rely upon the artistic judgement of the people creating them and technology is no substitute for artistic vision.
Q: I heard that ILM only filmed the opening credits shots of the Enterprise (TNG) because, I read that ( with the making of generations) ILM for the first time in seven years filmed the enterprise D! My question: Did you filmed the Enterpise D during TNG?
Al
DC: On Star trek TNG, ILM did shoot the opening title sequence and many of the stock fly-bys. After the pilot, all shots of the Enterprise were done at Image G here in Hollywood under the supervision of the Star Trek visual effects staff. For seven years the Enterprise was one of the most photographed objects in the world. The Enterprise used in the pilot and the first season was a six-foot model built at ILM Its size and smoothness created some technical problems for us, especially in getting matte passes (the silhouette of the ship used to create a 'hole' in the background to put the ship in) so later on, Greg Jein built a four foot version with higher relief on the surface plating which was both easier to shoot, and gave a better sense of scale on television screens. Each time you saw the Enterprise, we had to shoot 7 passes: the beauty pass, which would be the natural light on the hull, the matte pass the various window lights, warp drive, and impulse light. A simply fly-by could represent over a hundred man hours. When there would be nearby explosions or other light sources, we'd have to shoot additional passes for this interactive light.
Q: Which is your favorite title sequence or treatment?
Newton
DC: I guess my favorite title sequence is ST:Voyager. Followed very closely by DS9. I especially like Voyager because I was able to get into more extreme and unusual environments for the ship to be seen in. Apart from Star Trek, one of my favorite title sequences that I've done is "Back to School" with Rodney Dangerfield. I was asked to create the history of Rodney's character from age 12 to 55 in a minute and a half. I was able to use a lot of old photographs from my family album with my older brother and father putting Rodney's face over my father. I also designed the title sequence for the feature, "Star Trek Generations."
(Terry Farrell was also in that one! - Back to School not Generations)
Q: Do you try to give each show it's own look or do try to make them all look similar?
Dottkomm
DC: We try to give each shcw its own look. Next Generation was inspired by the wonderful work that Doug Trumbull and ILM had done for the Star Trek features. DS9 was intentionally darker and Voyager was the first series to make a major committment to CG (although the first couple of seasons were primarily motion-control miniatures) which necessitates a somewhat different look. Also, being in the Delta Quadrant gave us the opportunity to explore different looks with planets and backgrounds.
Q: I'm a big ST:VOY fan from Holland and I would like to know how the viewscreens on the bridges of the Enterprise-D,E, Defiant, Voyager etc. look like on the set. Are they just black or blue, or are there real images on it?
DennisV
DC: The viewscreens on the ship are empty holes in the set. When we are at impulse, outside is a "star curtain," which is black velvet with little highly reflective chips. These create the illusion of a starfield. When there is a planet, or another ship, or some other special phenomenon outside, there is either a blue or a green screen (the choice depends on the wardrobe of the actors passing in front of the screen) the visual effects department then creates what will be seen on the viewscreen and does a composite, putting the foreground live action production footage together with the visual effects image on the screen.
When the actors have to look at a specific object on the screen, that isn't there yet we place targets outside, which are bright tape X's, to keep eye lines correct. Eye lines can also be a problem when there are conversations between people on the viewscreen and people on the bridge. So these have to be planned out very carefully to make sure that everybody is looking in the correct direction.
Q: Do you ever ask the ship designers to make changes to their designs to make your visual effects job easier?
J.B.F.
DC: Yes. Sometimes we ask for more surface detail or more negative space or bends in surface planes. Sometimes something that may look great on paper or may be intellectually interesting, may not photograph well. So we try to keep the vision of the ship designers but will give them suggestions if we feel there may be ways to improve the photographic qualities of the ship. I also design some of the ships myself. These would include the Kazon ships and the Asymetrical Borg ship, among others.
Q: I read in your bio that you were in the Peace Corps. What was that like? What made you decide to join?
Gul
DC: When I got out of college in 1968, the war in Southeast Asia was raging and I knew I had an obligation to serve my country and decided to do it through the Peace Corps, which had a profound influence on my life and incidentally, on Star Trek. Many of my experiences have shown up, one way or another, on Star Trek episodes. In the design of things and in martial arts areas. I went to Thailand in the Peace Corps and built small dams and bridges in Northeast Thailand and later on worked for other government agencies and did freelance work in film, fine arts and architecture.
The Peace Corps was a wonderful experience and I would recommend it to anybody with a yen for adventure and having a cross-cultural experience.
Q: How was created the explosion of Voyager in the episode "Year of Hell"? How many people work on your creative team? Do the names for some of the Klingon weapons come from the Thai language?
Jana
DC: The Voyager explosion in Year of Hell was done as a computer generated effect under the supervision of Mitch Suskin at Foundation Imaging. On each series we have two visual effects teams that alternate episodes, and one floating team that works on both shows as needed. On DS9, we have David Stipes as supervisor and Adam Buckner as coordinator alternating with supervisor Gary Hutzel and coordinator Judy Elkins. Laura Matz is visual effects associate, working with both teams.
On Voyager, we have Ron Moore as supervisor and Liz Castro as coordinator, alternating with Mitch Suskin and Art Codron. The floating team is David Takemura, supervisor and Dexter Delara, coordinator. The visual effects associate for Voyager is Chad Zimmerman. The visual effects teams are responsible for supervising work on stage, designing the visual effects sequences and supervising the execution of the shots at our various vendor companies. These companies have many dedicated individuals who have been important contributors to Star Trek.
The names of Klingon weapons do not come from Thai, but are created by the writers and the linguist, Marc Okrand, who has created the Klingon language.
Q: What did you study to get into the business and where did you start once you left school? How does one get to where you are?
HGC
DC: In undergraduate school I majored in fine arts and minored in theater. My adventures overseas I consider as important a learning experience as anything available in an academic environment. When I came back to this country, I did medical illustration for a short time and learned a lot about drawing from some of the older hands. Then I taught college for a couple of years in fine arts and decided to go back to graduate school and study film and theater and obtained a master of fine arts degree. While I was in grad school, an influential person in the film industry happened to see an exhibition of paintings, found me, and suggested I look into matte painting.
On that person's recommendation Universal Studios hired me to do matte paintings for Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica, Cheech and Chong's Next Movie and others. When I left Universal, I went to work as art director for Modern Film Effects.... then I went on to Cinema Research Corporation.... as vice president and director of creative services. During that time, I was involved with a hundred and seventeen feature films and over 40 television productions. I left CRC to join Star Trek 12 years ago and have been concentrating on Star Trek ever since.
Q: How important is story boarding to a director and how much do you rely on it? Thanks.
Kathy
DC: It varies with the director. Clint Eastwood for example, doesn't like working with storyboards. On the other hand, Steven Spielberg uses them extensively. In television, there is very little time to storyboard although, some of the more complex sequences may be storyboarded by Rick Sternbach in the art department or myself. I especially like to storyboard things that involve difficult visual effects so that everybody from the director to the digital compositors have an idea what the original vision and intent of the sequence is. It also allows us to keep track of the various elements needed to put the final shot together.
If I am directing a dramatic sequence, I frequently like to do my own storyboarding which helps me previsualize the flow of images. It should be noted, however, that storyboards are merely that, and a prudent director will react and take advantage of the wonderful suprises that happen once actors and camera start moving on a set.
Q: What computers do you use? Quantel, Flame, etc. also at home?
G34Me
DC: At home I use a Macintosh. At our CG vendors Foundation Imaging and Digital Muse, the most common platform is an Alpha Workstation or a PC with Windows NT, relying primarily on Lightwave software. The edit bay we use now relies primarily on Infernos, but we also use Flames, Henrys and we sometimes use Wavefront software on SGI platforms. Important software used at home includes Photoshop and After Effects.
Q: Will you be joining Voyager's crew now that DS9 is done? Or will you find something new to do?
Admiral Barney
DC: I have already been on Voyager's crew since the pilot.
Q: I loved the space battle in Sacrifice of Angels, was this CGI or model photography?
MacFan
DC: Sacrifice of Angels was CG but we used real pyro elements for the explosions. The background phaser beams were done in Lightwave and the foreground beams were hand annimated on Henry. This is one of my favorite episodes and one in which I had the opportunity to collaborate with visual effects supervisor David Stipes who has been a friend for 20 years and is also an alumnus of Universal's Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers.
Q: How do you create the effect of shape shifting?
kermit
DC: The key is to hire an actor who has that capability. In truth, the scene is shot, sometimes with and without Rene, or Rene is shot against a blue or green screen then using computer software and textures and a computer model of Rene we create the goo phase and then the final phase that Odo ultimately orphs into. The process is time consuming and technically complex and would take too much time to describe in detail here. But it is primarily a morphing situation.
Q: Some of the hands-on tricks you and your team did during TNG were wild, like the L'eggs egg for the Echo_Poppa weapon on TNG, etc (STTNG Companion). Do you miss those "old" days or do odd, non-computerized projects like that still happen?
handyman
DC: I indeed miss those days when we functioned much like prestidigitators and alchemists. It was great fun to create the visual equivalent of Shine-ola from the proverbial substance. In some ways, that kind of creativity is being lost in exchange for the convenience of computer generated effects, but sometimes it seems more impersonal and colder that everything happens through a keyboard and a mouse. But nonetheless, it is the artistic vision that is important and not the technology used to obtain it.
Q: How long does it usually take to do the computer graphics effects involving the Defiant, such as in "Shadows & Symbols"?
Mrdini
DC: Instead of answering your question directly as relates to the Defiant, it would be better to say that on an average episode we have between three and six weeks to complete all the visual effects. Some shots go easier than others so there's no standard length of time it takes to create something.
Q: On which day do you celebrate your emergence from amniotic fluid and is it a fond memory?
Butchie
DC: I celebrate becoming an air breather every 365 days from my first gasp. It is September 22nd. On the Virgo/Libra cusp.
Q: What is the hardest special effect that you have ever done????
Voyager
DC: It's impossible to select one shot above all the others. Factors like, time, budget, intent of shot all influence the level of difficulty of bringing the shot into existence. Sometimes things that seem like they might be easy and simple can be surprisingly difficult. And can eat up huge quantities of time. It seems like the last 12 years has been a tsunami of work that has all blended together.
Q: I have hundreds of computer drawings and designs of ships and weaponry and I would like to expand my horizon and one day work on the set, and create my ideas. I have ideas from warp drives to phantom torpedos, Can you help?
Robert
DC: Unfortunately, policy prohibits me from looking at unsolicited concept drawings. Designers usually submit portfolios of a very limited nature to initiate a dialogue. If a potential employer is interested in what they see they may ask to see more work or arrange for a personal interview. You might consider doing some work that is not specific to any show and would therefore represent your own personal vision. Drawings done specifically for a show such as Star Trek, make it diffcult for anyone working on the show to look at them because of all the legal issues involved. So my final recommendation would be to understand that your personal vision is what you are really selling and that's what you should concentrate on. And get your work out there for people to see.
Q: Will the DS9 finale have as many FX surprises as the TNG finale?
LASooner
DC: Yes, but it would spoil the fun if I discussed them now. Watch the episode.
Q: Do you have a favorite series among your three, and/or episode, or are they all like children for you?
chitownBP
DC: I don't really have a favorite because each series has its own unique personality, just as the cast has their own unique personalities, so I enjoy each series for what they are and try not to compare them or play favorites.
Q: Is using the new Borg look from First Contact on Voyager cheaper than using their old look on TNG?
Phil
DC: The Borg ships are now done as CG models so that would certainly make the cost of doing large numbers of them cheaper, but the Borg design philosophy has remained pretty much the same. For Dark Frontier, when we visited the heart of the Borg civilization I had a vision for the design of the city. I went in to my small woodshop at home and intuitively cut small blocks of wood and bamboo BBQ skewers and dowel sticks to build a rough model indicating the design sensibility of how the various structures would relate to one another. I brought this model out to Foundation Imaging and the model makers there used that as a reference to build the huge city that was at least 600 km across.
Q: Hi Dan, What is the least expensive visual effect that gave you the greatest satisfaction..or as they say biggest bang for the buck?
Captain MM Huber
DC: The first season of TNG I walked into a dry goods store and spotted a mylar strip of material that could be described as mirrorized hula skirt material. I realized it had great potential and bought a yard of it and turned it into a pompom. I shook this and it had a wonderful organic way of jouncing around. I took it to Image G and Gary Hutzel photographed it with a movie camera while I shook it over a mirror, and we did various takes, both in and out of focus and some with odd filters. The pompom came to be used in most of the TNG episodes. It cost me less than $3.00 and it took about 15 minutes to photograph and maybe a half hour to transfer.
This pompom is the forcefield on Federation ships when wrapped around an imaginary M&M shape. We have used it for phaser hits. Out of focus it makes wonderful galaxies, energy creatures, forcefields and anything that needs to be a highly kinetic sparkly phenonenon.
Q: Has anything changed in the way the transporter effects are managed compared to the original series? If so, what and how is it different.
Robert
DC: In the original series all visual effects were composited on an opitcal printer. Which entails many trips to the lab. The basic technique has remained unchanged. When someone is beaming in, you shoot the set with and without the actor, and then do a dissolve, which is then enhanced with the transporter sparkles.
In the original series, the actors had to be rotoscoped (a print would be projected down onto an animation stand and traced by hand. Then photographed on high con stock. A film matte would be made and the sparkles would be printed through this matte to cover up the dissolving actor.)
Today, ... we still shoot the set with and without the actor, but the silhouette matte of the actor would be rotoscoped electronically and the sparkle element printed over the dissolve. So instead of taking several days as it would have done when the original series was made, a basic transporter can be done in a digital edit bay in less than two hours. We updated the transporter for Voyager so that instead of having the TNG shower curtain effect to initiate the transporter, we use the globs of light. We are planning to improve the transporter next year and making it look much more like an actual 3D event.
Hi Hua and Devin. I'll be home soon.
Thank you very much, Dan, for taking the time to chat with us today.
DC: Thanks very much for your interest in the show. I'm sorry that I didn't get to answer everyone's question.
