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Your opinions on abortion, being a Star Trek fan

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 22 2014, 2:55 pm

Quote: 3 of 12 @ Mar. 22 2014, 2:45 pm

>Sorry about the misunderstanding. But should "your" political philosophy be the law of the land? Do you have toleration for others that don't agree with you on this issue of abortion?
I don't see it as "my" political philosophy as much as me acknoledging that nature's law supercedes national laws.  (it's like me understanding that 2+2 always equals 4, even if the government says it equals 5.)  It's only that some people that can't understand that or are so arrogant that they try to upend it because they disagree with it.  One can disagree with gravity too, but we all know which wins in the end.  I only choose to acknowledge things I can't change and work within nature's law.  If everyone did that, we wouldn't have so many man made laws where most of them are idiotic.  As the US' founding documents remind us, rights are unalienable - which means that nobody can just violate them without consequences. 


And remember, this discussion is literally about life and death.  I can't think of anything more important.  This means that I cannot tolerate the senseless death of millions just because someone else likes killing.  While I can't stop them all, I do try to get people to think about it and look at it logically.

J Inkwell

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 108

Report this Mar. 22 2014, 3:02 pm

[quote]



What if I, not really, of course , went back in time and killed you in the womb because I didn't like what you are saying?


 


1.You wouldn't have any "fine sensory and emotional perception" as you say, yourself. 


2. You already said it was okay! You just gave me permission!


3. It's completely legal!


 


So, would that be okay with you? Can I go back in time and kill you before you were born?


 


Obviously, the answer is NO, YOU A******!!!!!!! 


But, you already said it's alright............


 


What if I went forward in time to ask a man, whose mother was going to abort him, if that's okay with him?


 


Again, the answer is "No!!!!". What makes it okay for me to kill the (now) baby, but not the (then) baby that was you?


 



 


[/quote]


Oh boy, the nitpickyness you got from me before is nothing to this....


The technology to do that has not been developed, and won't be for several hundred years. By that point, I would hope that a Temporal Accord has already been put in place and Time Travel will be strictly regulated by the government of the day.


That example takes it a bit too far, dude. Its so hypothetical I can't take it seriously, no offense.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 22 2014, 3:04 pm

Quote: 22123magic @ Mar. 22 2014, 2:54 pm

>You mean Darmok?!?! 
No - he gets his point across, if trolling counts.


I was thinking more in lines of people who really don't have the the ability to walk through something analytically and explain step 1 and then consider the consequences of step 1 to move to step 2, and so on.  As Professor Thomas Sowell says, "Thinking beyond step one."

3 of 12

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POSTS: 182

Report this Mar. 22 2014, 4:53 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Mar. 22 2014, 2:55 pm

Quote: 3 of 12 @ Mar. 22 2014, 2:45 pm

>

>Sorry about the misunderstanding. But should "your" political philosophy be the law of the land? Do you have toleration for others that don't agree with you on this issue of abortion?
I don't see it as "my" political philosophy as much as me acknoledging that nature's law supercedes national laws.  (it's like me understanding that 2+2 always equals 4, even if the government says it equals 5.)  It's only that some people that can't understand that or are so arrogant that they try to upend it because they disagree with it.  One can disagree with gravity too, but we all know which wins in the end.  I only choose to acknowledge things I can't change and work within nature's law.  If everyone did that, we wouldn't have so many man made laws where most of them are idiotic.  As the US' founding documents remind us, rights are unalienable - which means that nobody can just violate them without consequences. 

And remember, this discussion is literally about life and death.  I can't think of anything more important.  This means that I cannot tolerate the senseless death of millions just because someone else likes killing.  While I can't stop them all, I do try to get people to think about it and look at it logically.



Fair enough. E pluribus unum


Are you worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection?

I_am_Sylar

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POSTS: 137

Report this Mar. 22 2014, 8:37 pm

I'm gone one day, and this topic explodes...


I pretty much agree with Bam_Bam, so I won't go through exactly my opinions on everything.


“Power resides where men believe it resides. No more, no less. It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” -Lord Varys

darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 386

Report this Mar. 23 2014, 3:26 pm

Bam - "And remember, this discussion is literally about life and death. I can't think of anything more important. This means that I cannot tolerate the senseless death of millions just because someone else likes killing. While I can't stop them all, I do try to get people to think about it and look at it logically."

Who said they like killing? No one. That's another strawman. A logical fallacy. How can you make people think logically by using logical fallacies?

Also, you accuse me of making the 1% of abortions performed due to rape or endangerment to the mother's life the main issue but if you can't even make exceptions for those cases then what is the point in trying to convince you to change your position on the other 99%? It's ironic too considering how you're the one who brought up "post birth" abortions. How rare are those cases? 1% of 1%?

I_am_Sylar

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POSTS: 137

Report this Mar. 23 2014, 3:42 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Mar. 21 2014, 2:50 pm

>So lets get this straight, you're all saying that the rape victim should be held responsible for the rapist's choice? That logic is asinine. As for the jerking off thing, you forget I disagree with you about when life begins. You can replace "jerking off" with "protected sex" though if it helps you see my point.


It doesn't matter who made the choice.  The outcome is still the same. Someone has to be responsible, regardless of whether or not they accept it. If we could magically transfer the fetus to the raper's womb and make him give birth, then that would be ideal. But we don't live in a world full of pretty little butterflies. S*** happens, and just because someone isn't mature enough to accept that, doesn't mean they can do whatever they want to avoid it.


And I did forget that. I mistakenly repeated my argument, so let me present you with the response to your response: I guarantee you that if you were to do a DNA test on a fetus, then it would not be the mother's DNA. But eggs and semen on the other hand, do contain their producer's DNA. To say semen is basically the same thing is to ignore a basic biological fact.


“Power resides where men believe it resides. No more, no less. It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” -Lord Varys

darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 386

Report this Mar. 24 2014, 9:33 am

@ sylar

"Sh!t happens, grow up."

Wow.

As for the other, I have been sarcastic/hyperbolic but my point is that I feel abortions which are performed within the first few weeks are basically just another form of contraception. You made the DNA argument earlier, or someone did, and I'm not contending it. I just don't think it matters because, as inkwell has argued, at this point in the pregnancy the fetus is analogous to a parasite.

That said, the issue for me is less about when life or sentience begins and more about what the role of the government should be. I support regulation but not prohibition.

Ghost of Star Trek Past

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Report this Mar. 24 2014, 9:37 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Mar. 23 2014, 3:26 pm

>Bam - "And remember, this discussion is literally about life and death. I can't think of anything more important. This means that I cannot tolerate the senseless death of millions just because someone else likes killing. While I can't stop them all, I do try to get people to think about it and look at it logically." Who said they like killing? No one. That's another strawman. A logical fallacy. How can you make people think logically by using logical fallacies? Also, you accuse me of making the 1% of abortions performed due to rape or endangerment to the mother's life the main issue but if you can't even make exceptions for those cases then what is the point in trying to convince you to change your position on the other 99%? It's ironic too considering how you're the one who brought up "post birth" abortions. How rare are those cases? 1% of 1%?
Abortion is killing! Bad mindset to kill defenseless! Like Hitler! Like Stalin! Like Nimrod! BB is right! He have moral compass! U just bully troll!

I_am_Sylar

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POSTS: 137

Report this Mar. 24 2014, 10:19 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Mar. 24 2014, 9:33 am

>@ sylar "Sh!t happens, grow up." Wow. As for the other, I have been sarcastic/hyperbolic but my point is that I feel abortions which are performed within the first few weeks are basically just another form of contraception. You made the DNA argument earlier, or someone did, and I'm not contending it. I just don't think it matters because, as inkwell has argued, at this point in the pregnancy the fetus is analogous to a parasite. That said, the issue for me is less about when life or sentience begins and more about what the role of the government should be. I support regulation but not prohibition.


Okay. I guess at this point I'm simply going to agree to disagee, as I do not find  a fetus to be analogous to a parasite.


“Power resides where men believe it resides. No more, no less. It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” -Lord Varys

J Inkwell

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POSTS: 108

Report this Mar. 24 2014, 11:12 am

Well put: "I support regulation, but not prohibition"

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 24 2014, 2:52 pm

Quote: Ghost of Star Trek Past @ Mar. 24 2014, 9:37 am

>Abortion is killing! Bad mindset to kill defenseless! Like Hitler! Like Stalin! Like Nimrod! BB is right! He have moral compass! U just bully troll!
Yes, I was trying to make that point.  It takes a certain mindset to choose to kill off someone who's done nothing wrong.  I think it's the same mindset that many people have towards their victims, regardless of the age of the victim.  It's really a sad time when people are literally killing our future.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Mar. 24 2014, 9:22 pm

This news article reads like a tabloid....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10717566/Aborted-babies-incinerated-to-heat-UK-hospitals.html

darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 386

Report this Mar. 24 2014, 9:55 pm

@ sylar

Fair enough.

@ Bam

You paint me as a Nazi in this thread yet shrug off Putin, in your words, "becoming the next Hitler" in the Obama thread. The hypocrisy there is mindboggling.

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