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Constitution Day

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Sep. 17 2013, 10:36 am

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qQvUH8jVhKE/TJPNjecXrCI/AAAAAAAABsM/WEc7ffaCBiI/s1600/ConstitutionDay.jpg


 


Today is one of my favorite days of the year - the day where we celebrate the signing of an incredible document that was written to not only create a new type of goverment, but one that protects our individual rights and liberties!


If you've never read the US Constititution, I highly recommend it.  It can be found many places, but The National Archives is a great place to start.


And if you want to have a little fun, try taking this easy quiz.


And if you want to take your study further, I would also suggest:


Notes on the Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787


The Federalist Papers


The Anti-Federalist Papers

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Sep. 23 2013, 9:04 am

Looks like most of these people never read the Constitution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=578syMU3fpU

miklamar

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Report this Oct. 20 2013, 4:35 am

An often overlooked fact--not usually even discussed in school!--is that the American colonies/states first tried a confederation of states.  Each state was sovereign in its own territory, and a President only helped to coordinate correspondence.  It apparently did not work, so they met again 10 years or so later, and approved the Constitution.


The Constitution has served the American people well for more than 200 years.  It scares me to hear people suggest it needs to be replaced.  We'd better leave it alone!


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 20 2013, 12:48 pm

Quote: miklamar @ Oct. 20 2013, 4:35 am

>An often overlooked fact--not usually even discussed in school!--is that the American colonies/states first tried a confederation of states.  Each state was sovereign in its own territory, and a President only helped to coordinate correspondence.  It apparently did not work, so they met again 10 years or so later, and approved the Constitution.
Yup - I knew (in school) that we had the Articles of Confederation, but that was as much as was taught.  They never explained WHY we changed over to the Constitition.  But if you read and compare the two, you see that there are a lot of parts of the AoC that was brought into the Constitution.  And then when we also add the 9th & 10th Amendments, we find that the people and states still retain our rights.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 20 2013, 12:50 pm

Quote: miklamar @ Oct. 20 2013, 4:35 am

>The Constitution has served the American people well for more than 200 years.  It scares me to hear people suggest it needs to be replaced.  We'd better leave it alone!
The reason that they want to replace the Constitution is because they don't agree with the its principles of individual freedoms and responsibility protected by a very limited government.  For some reason, they'd prefer to replace it with the very type of government that has murdered hundreds of millions of people and that the US has consistently fought against for centuries: authoritarian!

EmpokNorStationManager

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 7:27 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 20 2013, 12:50 pm

>

>The reason that they want to replace the Constitution is because they don't agree with the its principles of individual freedoms and responsibility protected by a very limited government.  


Amen to that....  you have to wonder if people really understand what they are suggesting when going down that path...  Guess some of the youngin's are too green to remember the good ol' days with the "strong" USSR and events of the Cold War....  


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 9:29 am

Quote: EmpokNorStationManager @ Oct. 21 2013, 7:27 am

>Amen to that....  you have to wonder if people really understand what they are suggesting when going down that path...  Guess some of the youngin's are too green to remember the good ol' days with the "strong" USSR and events of the Cold War....
They're not taught history.  When I go to colleges/universities to give my talks, it amazes me how much the students don't know - and I'm not just talking about events and dates, but the more important information of why things happened.  And when I pull out copies of documents written at the time of the event we're discussing, it amazes them how they never learned it.

EmpokNorStationManager

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 10:01 am

I guess it begs the question of - how to break the cycle being the parent of two small children.  I can sympathize with not really learning history until I was well out of school.  Social Studies was an exercise of memorization of times, places, and people, but not the how's or why's of what happened....  huge gaps of both American and world history were bypassed to focus on what year the Louisiana Purchase happened....  really??


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

darmokattanagra

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 10:18 am

Ugh. Why do I even bother?

miklamar - The Constitution has served the American people well for more than 200 years.  It scares me to hear people suggest it needs to be replaced.  We'd better leave it alone!

The Constitution has served white males well for more than 200 years. Women have only been able to vote since 1920, that's less than 100 years. Black people have only been able to vote (freely, without Jim Crow laws) since 1965, that's less than 50 years. And even then, what good is being able to vote and participate in a system that you had no input in creating and may never have wanted in the first place?

To give you an example I know you can relate to, think of Obamacare. It gives you the "freedom" to choose which private company you want to buy insurance from but what if you don't want to buy insurance or what if you prefer single-payer?

Bam - Yup - I knew (in school) that we had the Articles of Confederation, but that was as much as was taught.  They never explained WHY we changed over to the Constitition.

I've explained this to you more than once. The main reason the Founders got together and ultimately drafted the Constitution was to create a stronger Federal government that could levy taxes to pay off war debts. The premise that the Founders wanted to create a "limited government" couldn't be further from the truth.

The reason that they want to replace the Constitution is because they don't agree with the its principles of individual freedoms and responsibility protected by a very limited government.  For some reason, they'd prefer to replace it with the very type of government that have murdered hundreds of millions of people and that the US has consistently fought against for centuries: authoritarian!

This is an absurd and insulting strawman attack.

EmpokNorStationManager - Amen to that....  you have to wonder if people really understand what they are suggesting when going down that path...  Guess some of the youngin's are too green to remember the good ol' days with the "strong" USSR and events of the Cold War....

Please explain how direct democracy is authoritarianism.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 10:58 am

Quote: EmpokNorStationManager @ Oct. 21 2013, 10:01 am

>

>I guess it begs the question of - how to break the cycle being the parent of two small children.  I can sympathize with not really learning history until I was well out of school.  Social Studies was an exercise of memorization of times, places, and people, but not the how's or why's of what happened....  huge gaps of both American and world history were bypassed to focus on what year the Louisiana Purchase happened....  really??

>
Exactly.... it's not personal - it doesn't influence them.  This is why history professors have me come in and lecture a few times each term:  I try to show people how it's applied today - how if affects them individually.  I can even take examples from what people are wearing (like a Che shirt) and ask them why they wear it (and then show them what that person actually did.)


I highly suggest home schooling none of this "gubmunt edewkayshun & indocktrunayshun cystduuhhmm".  If you can't do that, then find a private school.  If there is no way to stay out of the government controlled system, then get heavily involved in the curriculum and read through what your kids are studying.  Augment it with additional material to counter the socialism that's taught.

EmpokNorStationManager

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 11:19 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 21 2013, 10:58 am

> If there is no way to stay out of the government controlled system, then get heavily involved in the curriculum and read through what your kids are studying.  Augment it with additional material to counter the socialism that's taught.


 


I think that's exactly what I'm going to have to do is augment with things I've picked up myself.  I'll prolly end up in the principal's office explaining why my kiddo is challenging the teacher in every session...  I'm okay with that....


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 11:32 am

Quote: EmpokNorStationManager @ Oct. 21 2013, 11:19 am

>I think that's exactly what I'm going to have to do is augment with things I've picked up myself.  I'll prolly end up in the principal's office explaining why my kiddo is challenging the teacher in every session...  I'm okay with that....

>
Yep... and also sit in on the classes - make sure the teacher knows that you're involved.  (Some hate it and some love it.)


I used to exasperate some of my teachers because I was always asking WHY.  Many of them just wanted me to "memorize and regurgitate" and didn't really want to teach.  And if I really wanted to tick off a teacher, I'd read something they told me not to read (like the Federalist Papers.)


It's sad, when I went to school, I had to read Marx and Hitler, but not Washington or Jefferson.

EmpokNorStationManager

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 12:05 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Oct. 21 2013, 11:32 am

>I used to exasperate some of my teachers because I was always asking WHY.  Many of them just wanted me to "memorize and regurgitate" and didn't really want to teach.  And if I really wanted to tick off a teacher, I'd read something they told me not to read (like the Federalist Papers.)

>It's sad, when I went to school, I had to read Marx and Hitler, but not Washington or Jefferson.


 


Is that even allowed - to sit in on your child's class?  First, I'm not sure I could get time off from work, but if I could I think it would be very interesting experience for both me and my kiddo... unless she was totally embarassed....  


 


Neither Hitler nor Marx was required reading at my school - however we did review excerpts of writings from Marx...  just a few...  I think it's interesting to review the original intent of the documents that set forth our government and weigh that against how that same government actually operates today - almost like the telephone game...  I tell you, you tell him, he tells her....  by the time it gets back to you it's completely garbeled...  kinda like the way our Federal government stands today...


 


To give Darmok some credit above, I don't think the Founders covered every equality question from the start, however I think the FRAMEWORK of what they constructed gave the country the tools to rectify the inequalities that existed (and continue to be even today).  


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 12:13 pm

Quote: EmpokNorStationManager @ Oct. 21 2013, 12:05 pm

>Is that even allowed - to sit in on your child's class?  First, I'm not sure I could get time off from work, but if I could I think it would be very interesting experience for both me and my kiddo... unless she was totally embarassed....  
Depends on the school.  Some schools refuse parents access (for "security" excuses) while others welcome parental involvement.  The more authoritarian the school is, the less involvement they want from the parents.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Oct. 21 2013, 12:17 pm

Quote: EmpokNorStationManager @ Oct. 21 2013, 12:05 pm

>Neither Hitler nor Marx was required reading at my school - however we did review excerpts of writings from Marx...  just a few... 
Ughhh... some of my teachers idolized those two... touting socialism and authoritarian viewpoints and making us read their books and speeches.... Mein Kampf, Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, Critique of the Gotha Program, etc.

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