ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Simon Pegg curses out disappointed trekkies

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 4:37 pm

Sora, I disagree with everything you have said. It's a crock of bull. You make it sound like we Trekkies are a charity that have been "given" so much out of the goodness of producers' hearts and we should lick their boots and be happy for any scrap they throw at us labeled "Star Trek".


WE created the demand for Star Trek. WE watched TNG in droves and gave it the rating to warrant another spin off. WE watched DS9 and VOY. WE supported Star Trek through it's darkest hours and would not let it die. WE rallied, WE supported, WE spent our money on VHS tapes, movie tickets and merchandise. WE went to conventions and gave Star Trek our support for decades.


So when WE decide that ENT isn't good enough so we stop watching it, that is our right. If we refuse to watch a series or movie, well to quote ST09, to the producers "I dare you to do better" and not feed us crap and tell us it's caviar. Fans have a right to voice opinions. What should we do? Pat creators on the back, say "everyone gets a trophy" and support a show we don't like? Bull!


WE are not very lucky. Paramount and CBS are very lucky to have a franchise that is making money after 47 years. They earn effortless income from merchandise and DVDs. The actors are lucky that they've been employed for so long and earning paychecks and royalties.  They have loyal fans who want quality. The failure of ENT and the reaction to NuTrek is a symptom of poor quallity Trek.


All the other franchises you mentions would have suceeded and went farther if the had fans like us to support them. Stargate died because it didn't have numbers. 

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 4:59 pm

Bunkey. I understand where you are coming from. However this isn't the first time you and I don't agree, and it probably won't be the last.


I'm not saying that every Trekkie has to come out say that every single episode is a golden masterpiece. What I am saying is that, if you don't care for something, or don't like how something turned out, there is a civil way of going about saying it. Some fans go about it the right way, and some go about it in a very wrong way.


I'm sorry but sending a bag of trash to a writer, saying that this is what he's done to Star Trek...that is uncalled for in my opinion. Many of the things I see people say are uncalled for.


You can say you like this movie better than that movie, or episode or whatever. I really enjoy listening when I hear fans give their ideas for a direction they would have liked to see a series or movie take.


There is a constructive way of doing it, and a destructive way of doing it.


You said the producers "feed us crap and tell us it's caviar"


It's hard for me to comprehend this. Because I loved Star Trek when I was kid, and before I really knew anything about other Trek fans. I never once thought that an episode was terrible or crappy. Did I have my favorites? Sure! But I just loved watching the show. So here I was, pretty much in hog heaven over all this Star Trek we had, and in my mind it was perfect. And I was never trying to force myself to like it, it just came very naturally. Then I started getting involved with other fans as I got into my mid to late teen years, and that was the first taste I got that made me realize that alot of fans dislike alot of Star Trek. I had no idea prior to that, and so that made me very protective over all these shows. Because I love them, and I certainly don't think they're crap. Not in the least. Star Trek is the only tv show that really interests me. I hardly watch anything else. I get bored watching new shows. I would rather be watching Star Trek. That's just me, and I realize everyone is different, but this is my favorite thing in the world here, and more often than not, I find I have to defend it, not against people who are fans of something else, or not fans at all, but I have to defend it against other people who claim they love it. And I can't comprehend how you can love something yet hate it at the same time. Or at least come across as hating it.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 5:17 pm

I never said sending garbage bags was okay.   My point was you framing fan dissatisfaction with some Star Trek as ungrateful fans getting some kind of gift is wholly inaccurate. We can disagree on many things but there is a truth that is fact: Star Trek is a consumer driven products and we, Trekkies, are consumers.


Replace Star Trek with any other consumer product you may buy. If you like Oreos, buy them regularly and have enjoyed them for years and suddenly they change the product so it's not as delicious, you would be angry and write Nabisco about your unhappiness. 


NuTrek is, to many fans, pretty much New Coke. When Coke changed the formula, they sold it under the Coca Cola name but it wasn't really Coke. It was not the same recipe. So consumers complained, rallied, wrote letters and refused to buy New Coke because there was nothing wrong with Original Coke. That's pretty much what Trekkies are doing with STID


You said you don't understand how someone can love something and hate it.   I've said this before, I LOVE Star Trek. I love most of the series. I'm not a big fan of VOY but I've watched enough of it.  I want more Star Trek. But I want GOOD Star Trek and NuTrek wasn't good.  What's more, it tampered with the original formula.  So I love Star Trek but I hate NuTrek. It's STINO. Star Trek in name only. That to me is crap labeled as caviar.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

ichabod.stitch

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 7:11 pm

I liked both 2009 and STID very much. I hope they continue!


Half Betazoid/Half Vulcan

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 7:18 pm

Well after reading your explanation of how you feel, I think I have a better understanding of what you mean now. And I also agree that Star Trek 2009 and Star Trek Into Darkness is very different. I was just very surprised that Into Darkness wasn't well liked overall. Especially after the huge turnout that 2009 got. I agree with you 100% that the new film series isn't quite the same as what we had before. But it doesn't bother me because I still find them to be entertaining, and I also don't hold these particular two films up with the rest of Trek. I consider Abrams Trek to be what I call "The Remake Series" I don't consider it reboot as most do. I think TNG was more of a reboot than 2009 was. TNG was used to kick start the franchise again, and was a sequel to TOS and continued on from TOS, but it was still in the same universe, same timline. Abrams Trek is supposed to be an alternate timeline, or an alternate reality of some sort. I feel that these movies started over, from the beginning, to bring in new people who never liked Star Trek before. So I see it in that light. I see everything 1966-2005 as one massive storyline. So I don't let the new movies bother me that much. They are just fun movies. I hold everything that came before in a higher regard. But I certainly don't hate the new movies and I look forward to what the 3rd movie may bring.


What did you not care for in Voyager? Just curious. Over the years Voyager has gradually become my favorite series. It was DS9 for a long time, but I have come to really love Voyager over the years. Janeway is my favorite captain as well.

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 390

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 8:03 pm

WE watched DS9

So when WE decide that ENT isn't good enough so we stop watching it, that is our right.

Speak for yourself. Enterprise is my second favorite after TNG and I don't even consider DS9 to be real Trek.

Trajan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 137

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 8:38 pm

(1) Many hardcore Trek fans, especially some that I've seen on these forums, have been brutal, callous, and outright disrespectful towards JJ Abrams and his vision of Star Trek.  While I can certainly understand Mr. Pegg's frustration with this, there is no doubt he should have been more diplomatic in the way he expressed said frustration.


 


(2) Star Trek: Into Darkness being voted as the worst Star Trek movie to date seems to me to be an opinion based more on emotion than on objective criticism.  It has its flaws, of that I think we can all agree.  But is it truly less entertaining and/or less engaging than The Final Frontier, Insurrection, or Nemesis?  I don't think so.


As many Trek fans are (or should be) aware, Star Trek has always been a morality play.  It is social commentary disguised under make-up and special effects.


With that said, I find it quite strange to hear critics of the JJ stuff use the "it has no heart, it has no soul, it isn't real Star Trek!" line over and over again.  Into Darkness was jam-packed with commentary on our post-9/11 world.  The terrorist attacks on the Federation, along with Kirk having to decide between revenge or justice, does that stuff not ring a bell or strike a chord with the critics?  Because if it doesn't, the term "mindless" does indeed apply, but not necessarily to the work done on Into Darkness.


 


(3) As stated, JJ's iteration of Star Trek has A TON of flaws.  From an acting standpoint, Pegg is too comedic with Soctty, Quinto plays Spock WAY too emotionally, and Pine still comes off as a young hothead when he should be displaying more maturity at this point.


As far as stories go, there is still a heavy reliance on action versus character development, and too many "universal threats" to the Federation and our crew.  At some point I'd like to see these movies branch out and deal with exploration and unknown species/threats.


From a directorial standpoint, I'd like to see the films slow down.  A terrible trend that I've seen in Hollywood in general, and these films in specific, is the habit of throwing everything at the screen at once, full-throttle, and then topping it off with fast cuts and shaky cams.  You really can't tell what's going on a good deal of the time, everything is happening so fast.  This isn't inventive, nor is it unique at this point.  It is disorientating when it shouldn't be.


All that said, these films do have heart and soul, and the lessons they are trying to teach are in spirit with the original Star Trek.  Just because they've been dressed up in a way that most of us wouldn't prefer, doesn't mean it should be discredited or disrespected.


I think everyone, on every side of the discussion, should at least be civil enough to understand that, and not be disrespectful towards one another.

Trajan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 137

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 8:50 pm

[quote]


Bunkey. I understand where you are coming from. However this isn't the first time you and I don't agree, and it probably won't be the last.


I'm not saying that every Trekkie has to come out say that every single episode is a golden masterpiece. What I am saying is that, if you don't care for something, or don't like how something turned out, there is a civil way of going about saying it. Some fans go about it the right way, and some go about it in a very wrong way.


I'm sorry but sending a bag of trash to a writer, saying that this is what he's done to Star Trek...that is uncalled for in my opinion. Many of the things I see people say are uncalled for.


You can say you like this movie better than that movie, or episode or whatever. I really enjoy listening when I hear fans give their ideas for a direction they would have liked to see a series or movie take.


There is a constructive way of doing it, and a destructive way of doing it.


You said the producers "feed us crap and tell us it's caviar"


It's hard for me to comprehend this. Because I loved Star Trek when I was kid, and before I really knew anything about other Trek fans. I never once thought that an episode was terrible or crappy. Did I have my favorites? Sure! But I just loved watching the show. So here I was, pretty much in hog heaven over all this Star Trek we had, and in my mind it was perfect. And I was never trying to force myself to like it, it just came very naturally. Then I started getting involved with other fans as I got into my mid to late teen years, and that was the first taste I got that made me realize that alot of fans dislike alot of Star Trek. I had no idea prior to that, and so that made me very protective over all these shows. Because I love them, and I certainly don't think they're crap. Not in the least. Star Trek is the only tv show that really interests me. I hardly watch anything else. I get bored watching new shows. I would rather be watching Star Trek. That's just me, and I realize everyone is different, but this is my favorite thing in the world here, and more often than not, I find I have to defend it, not against people who are fans of something else, or not fans at all, but I have to defend it against other people who claim they love it. And I can't comprehend how you can love something yet hate it at the same time. Or at least come across as hating it.


[/quote]


I really enjoyed both your posts in this thread, Sora.  It was a real breath of fresh air compared to some of the vitriol I've seen here over the last few years.

Khaaan!!!!

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 9:20 pm

Here is the thing. ST into darkness was not made for trekkies. ideed no film budgeted at 190 million is made for a niche audience. THis film was meant to be made to be accessable to anyone in any country that displayed movies for a fee.  That is why for star trek fans the film feels a little.......thin. Most of the star trek has been boiled out to make it accessable to as many people as possible. Simon pegg should not get angry. Studios dont really care if people like the movie. I mean alot of people work hard and hope to make something good but it comes down to the economics. ST into darkness was successful enough for a 3rd film. IF it countinues to make money they will do more of the same. I am not sure Fandom really applies to summer blockbusters. Hell into darkness didnt really do all that great stateside, but it did gangbusters overseas so it doesnt matter what a segment of the population thinks of it. THey got that ticket money thats all that matters. So simon, I love you man but shut the fuck up. If you want your work respected stay out of domestic summer action flicks. 


"Ten thousand dollars for me by myself. For that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing."

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Aug. 25 2013, 9:59 pm

Quote: Trajan @ Aug. 25 2013, 8:50 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>Bunkey. I understand where you are coming from. However this isn't the first time you and I don't agree, and it probably won't be the last.

>I'm not saying that every Trekkie has to come out say that every single episode is a golden masterpiece. What I am saying is that, if you don't care for something, or don't like how something turned out, there is a civil way of going about saying it. Some fans go about it the right way, and some go about it in a very wrong way.

>I'm sorry but sending a bag of trash to a writer, saying that this is what he's done to Star Trek...that is uncalled for in my opinion. Many of the things I see people say are uncalled for.

>You can say you like this movie better than that movie, or episode or whatever. I really enjoy listening when I hear fans give their ideas for a direction they would have liked to see a series or movie take.

>There is a constructive way of doing it, and a destructive way of doing it.

>You said the producers "feed us crap and tell us it's caviar"

>It's hard for me to comprehend this. Because I loved Star Trek when I was kid, and before I really knew anything about other Trek fans. I never once thought that an episode was terrible or crappy. Did I have my favorites? Sure! But I just loved watching the show. So here I was, pretty much in hog heaven over all this Star Trek we had, and in my mind it was perfect. And I was never trying to force myself to like it, it just came very naturally. Then I started getting involved with other fans as I got into my mid to late teen years, and that was the first taste I got that made me realize that alot of fans dislike alot of Star Trek. I had no idea prior to that, and so that made me very protective over all these shows. Because I love them, and I certainly don't think they're crap. Not in the least. Star Trek is the only tv show that really interests me. I hardly watch anything else. I get bored watching new shows. I would rather be watching Star Trek. That's just me, and I realize everyone is different, but this is my favorite thing in the world here, and more often than not, I find I have to defend it, not against people who are fans of something else, or not fans at all, but I have to defend it against other people who claim they love it. And I can't comprehend how you can love something yet hate it at the same time. Or at least come across as hating it.

>

I really enjoyed both your posts in this thread, Sora.  It was a real breath of fresh air compared to some of the vitriol I've seen here over the last few years.


 


Thank you, very much. I often unintentionally offend someone in what I say. It's not my intention to offend or anger anyone, but to get people to really stop and think. As I am very known for saying, I am a big supporter of Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, and I have a lot of respect for them both, and hearing what Brannon has to say on the Enterprise Season 2 blu-ray is just unreal. So I can understand why Simon Pegg would be frustrated as well. Again it isn't my intention to offend anyone, however I stand by what I've said.


Bunkey stated that the fans are the ones who made all this Trek happen, and yes that is true, but I think it's really only half true. Paramount and CBS and the producers are ultimately the ones who really make it happen. We the fans may have showed the interest, but nobody forced them to give us more Star Trek. We begged, and we won. But my fear is that if we stay on this path of constant nit picking for each piece of Trek we get, I could see the studios getting to the point of saying, screw this franchise, we can't please these people, and we aren't spending anymore money on it.


The writing campaign helped get TOS back for a 3rd season, but the network was still in control. Fans wrote in to try and get a 4th season. Did it work? No, it didn't. The network said no. We didn't do that, they did. With as much as people really disliked The Motion Picture, again I think we got lucky. I like the film personally, but it is a very thinking film. You have to really be drawn into the story to enjoy it. I think we got lucky that Wrath of Kahn did so well. I think if the fans had not liked Wrath of Kahn either, I think that would have been the end of Star Trek.


The fans were supportive of TNG despite now most people hate the first and second seasons, mainly because I think they were just so excited to have Star Trek back in some form in a new series. It had never been done before. I think it never having been done before made people more patient and more accepting than they would later become.


They overall were not so kind to Enterprise, but by that point it was the 4th show in a row, and this where I say we got spoiled. We were no longer thankful for new Star Trek anymore. People were so used to always getting that next series, and next season that they didn't give their support, and just expected more Star Trek anyway. And it didn't happen, Enterprise was the first Star Trek show to get canceled since TOS, and it did kill Star Trek. Again we got lucky that JJ Abrams came along and wanted to make the new movies. And I have stated my opinion on the new films already, but what are we doing with the new films? After we went 4 years with nothing? I'll let you answer that one...


And before someone states that TNG was good and ENT was crap and they shouldn't be forced to watch crap or something to that effect. Are you honestly going to try and tell me that Season 1 of Enterprise is worse than season 1 of TNG?? Or that Season 2 of Enterprise is worse than Season 2 of TNG? When we pretty much all know what the overall feelings are towards the early days of TNG. Some people refer to those seasons as "unwatchable"


But it didn't matter that people thought TNG sucked in it's first season. They didn't care, because they were proud fans and they weren't going to let another Star Trek series die. They were going to make TNG whether it sucked or not. And of course in season 3 the show had a huge improvment.


But then when DS9 came out, we got spoiled.


When Voyager came out we got even more spoiled


When Enterprise came out we got straight up cocky.


Think about it. I can see the connections. Can you?


Live Long and Prosper

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 26 2013, 2:18 am

To be fair, something has to be in last place, and whatever film that happens to be, it's bound to rub someone the wrong way.


Also, to be fair, this was down to a vote. It is a very general impression garnered from a small minority of Trekkies.


Also, to be fair, people are entitled to have their own opinion of any film, just as Mr Pegg is entitled to his.


And finally, his opinion is really just that -- another opinion.


He was out of order saying "f.u." to Trekkies, because all fans are as entitled to have an opinion as he is.


However, I don't lose any sleep over it, personally.


(S.T.I.D is not my least favourite Star Trek movie. I don't mind that it is someone else's.)


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Aug. 26 2013, 2:20 am

P.S. Where do people get this idea that they are being forced to watch crap with the new movie or any other thing? Nobody is tying you down to the cinema chair and holding your eyes open with wads of sticky tape and a staple gun.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

rob39874

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 142

Report this Aug. 26 2013, 2:59 am

Quote: bunkey @ Aug. 25 2013, 5:17 pm

>

>I never said sending garbage bags was okay.   My point was you framing fan dissatisfaction with some Star Trek as ungrateful fans getting some kind of gift is wholly inaccurate. We can disagree on many things but there is a truth that is fact: Star Trek is a consumer driven products and we, Trekkies, are consumers.

>Replace Star Trek with any other consumer product you may buy. If you like Oreos, buy them regularly and have enjoyed them for years and suddenly they change the product so it's not as delicious, you would be angry and write Nabisco about your unhappiness. 

>NuTrek is, to many fans, pretty much New Coke. When Coke changed the formula, they sold it under the Coca Cola name but it wasn't really Coke. It was not the same recipe. So consumers complained, rallied, wrote letters and refused to buy New Coke because there was nothing wrong with Original Coke. That's pretty much what Trekkies are doing with STID

>You said you don't understand how someone can love something and hate it.   I've said this before, I LOVE Star Trek. I love most of the series. I'm not a big fan of VOY but I've watched enough of it.  I want more Star Trek. But I want GOOD Star Trek and NuTrek wasn't good.  What's more, it tampered with the original formula.  So I love Star Trek but I hate NuTrek. It's STINO. Star Trek in name only. That to me is crap labeled as caviar.

>


I completley agree with you here I was one of the ones who stopped watching enterprise but after time with no new trek I dcided to watch it and give it a try and actually like it when I got to season 3. Of course the character development was not as polished as in the other ones but that would have come proivided it went to season 5 and the romulan war.


However STID or NU Trek or JJ Trek is not Star Trek there is no exploring stramge new worlds. No seeking out new lives and new civilisations in fact there boldly going where they have gone before. 


Yes I won't send trash to JJ because that is OTT but quite frankly it makes me seriously reconsider going to see any other ST movie that has this new cast.


I love Trek all incarnations but Nutrek just isn't trek

darth_timon

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 17

Report this Aug. 26 2013, 5:59 am

Considering this 'poll' (which I find hard to believe is truly representative of Trekkies anyway) had Galaxy Quest listed as a choice, I call into question it's validity.


STID was a lot better than Insurrection, Nemesis and The Final Frontier- oh, and TMP too. It was better than Generations for me as well. It's far from a perfect film but the role of the NuTrek films has been to raise awareness of the brand and get people talking about Trek again- and in this it has been a resounding success. A lot of people wail on JJ's Trek because it isn't like older Trek- but older Trek includes tripe like VOY, ENT, NEM and INS. Some portions of older Trek were little more than over-preachy technobabbly messes. NuTrek is a lot closer to the fun, swashbuckling nature of TOS.


I am here to shake things up

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this Aug. 26 2013, 6:29 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Aug. 25 2013, 8:03 pm

>

>WE watched DS9

So when WE decide that ENT isn't good enough so we stop watching it, that is our right.

Speak for yourself. Enterprise is my second favorite after TNG and I don't even consider DS9 to be real Trek.

>


 


I was speaking in the "we" sense as in "the majority of Trekkies". I was not speaking for any single person in particular but as the majority decision the collective group made. The majority chose not to support ENT, therefore it was canceled.  Simmer down.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

Post Reply

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum