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A true Star Trek Fans honest and as neutral take on the JJ movie debate

shaun.black.5895

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POSTS: 12

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 10:12 pm

Quote: crellmoset @ Jul. 03 2013, 9:53 am

>I grew up on the Original Series and have been a long time fan. If one long time fan can speak for all of them them you'll need to adjust your view. Abrams' movies are fair to good. How anyone could not admit that they're at least better than 75% of the Next Generation crap is beyond me.


Are you allowing your love of TOS to cloud your judgment? TOS was a great series, both the shows and the movies, but Rodenberry's vision was never fully unleashed UNTIL TNG.  This is well known.  He never wanted a cowboy shoot em up version of Star Trek. 


Now, when I say TOS was great, I am only referring to the real TOS, not this "fair to good" hack job that we are seeing today.  Why are you not mad over the fact that all they did was steal and reverse roles from the Wrath of Khan? Or, even that they would have the audacity to try and remake TOS at all?


Shouldn't we, as life long fans, want a new crew, with a new captain? Something original, and as close to Rodenberry's ideals as possible.  And, where does one look to understand Rodenberry's vision? Answer: TNG.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 11:15 am

why would an long time fan be mad a JJ for having the "audacity "to try and remake TOS when that exactly what Rodenberry's hoped would one day happen?


 

shaun.black.5895

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 12

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 3:57 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jul. 04 2013, 11:15 am

>

>why would an long time fan be mad a JJ for having the "audacity "to try and remake TOS when that exactly what Rodenberry's hoped would one day happen?

>


Because a life long fan would see that JJ is not a fan of Star Trek, and did nothing but make a complete mockery of TOS.  If Rodenberry were remaking the series it would resemble TNG.  Point blank, if you like the Abrams movies, then you are not really a fan of Star Trek.  Deal with that fact.

Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 5:20 pm

Davidjskipper, do you hate British people? You sure seem to have a beef with them. You should know a few things:


1. Khan was never a Latino. Ricardo Montalban was Mexican, of Spanish parents, but Khan Noonien Singh was a Sikh -- at least his name was -- and he was from Asia. The actor's ethnicity didn't matter in TOS, and it shouldn't matter now, especially when casting a brown-skinned actor as a villain being defeated by a couple of white guys could easily be seen as very racist.


2. William Shatner is Canadian. Was there a shortage of actors from Iowa?


3. James Doohan was also Canadian. Was there a shortage of Scottish actors?


4. Walter Koenig is American. Was there a shortage of Russian actors? (Yes, there was.)


5. "Of" is not a verb. The word you're looking for is "have".

davidjskipper

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 9

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 7:56 pm

The title of this post is


A true Star Trek Fans honest and as neutral take on the JJ movie debate


 


I meant it just that way. I began in a civil way just stating my views and takes on the films.  I was warned to expect haters and believe me the haters make me laugh, not reconsider anything. Really, correcting a person’s grammar on a forum? I was not aware I was in school. I am both a humble and honest person. Read back to what I believe was my second post I openly admitted to poor schooling. “After public school truly failed me so I could not read after graduation. It was Peter David’s books that I learned to read with." Add to that I often type often on a small phone without spell check and grammar check so not worried if it bother you.


No not a British hater, I have friends who are british. Several online, 8-10 in real life, was the best man at an englishman and Hondirian's wedding, but the point the noobs to Star Trek, or the idea of time travel and changing time lines, seem to fail to understand is a change in a timeline would not change everyone’s nationality, especially when the person existed before the time change. Pick on the point, I followed another persons mention of khan was Latino in error, (which I caught the next day myself but knew intelligent readers would still get the point) Explain what changed his nationality still? It has nothing to do with him being British; it has to do with JJ having no idea who Khan was.


Should someone try and do another Star Trek movie with new characters? Sure! Be it a movie or series if it was done with respect then many of us would welcome it. 


Should anther be done using the TOS crew? I would see no reason why they couldn't. As I said in a post I was very excited when news of the first movie came out. But it should be done by a writer and director that can connect to the fans, not alienate them.


I would have little trouble going to see another JJ Star Trek film if I had any reason to believe he had intentions to show respect to the franchise, story line, characters, and creator. I believe with all the statements JJ has made he should do well with Star Wars and I personally hope it keeps him busy.


 Have admitted to being in error on a few points and was willing to concede on some. To those respectful I have enjoyed conversing with you. There has been one in particular who has pointed out some errors in a polite way that has gain my deep respect.Thank You  stovokor2000-ASeems the fans I hoped to convey some thoughts to have said there peace, just as I have and only the people who hope to pick fights remain, have fun.


 


I believe for me this will be my final post because I am not tying to fuel fights, just gave my take on a movie in a forum meant for fans to tell what they thought about movie, not to turn on one another and  behave like children in a school yard


Peace and prosperity


 


 


 


To boldly go.....

Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 8:38 pm

I have no problem with people stating their opinions honestly and in a civil way, even if they conspicuously and erroneously use the word "haters" in peculiar contexts. As a matter of fact, I disliked the JJ Abrams movies for many different reasons -- but not the same ones you mentioned. Your initial posted criticism centered largely on minutiae -- the nationality or ethnicity of actors, the presence or absence of canonical minor characters, the appearance of alien races -- so I replied in the same spirit. The things I disliked about the JJ Abrams movies have nothing to do with trivial violations of canon or continuity; Jim Kirk could be played by Melissa McCarthy for all I care, so long as they got a good movie out of it. You're right that criticizing your grammar completely ignored the major issues brought up in your original post...but your original post missed most of what was wrong with the movie you were criticizing.

pst1993

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 9:14 pm

Before I give my thoughts into this debate.  Let me tell you something.  For most of my life, I was a Star Wars.  It wasn't untill 2007 when I was introduced to Star Trek and I also loved it.  It started off be being a fan of sci-fi as a whole not just a fan of a specific something.  Now that I put my background into this.  I'll add to this by saying that the movies may have split the fanbase in two.  But, the reboot was something Star Trek needed the most.  Before now, the Star Trek franchise was bassicly dead.  With the reboot, the franchise has finally gone into pop culture again.  To those who who don't like the movies, look on the bright side, the third movie of a trilogy usually sucks.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 11:42 pm

Quote: shaun.black.5895 @ Jul. 04 2013, 3:57 pm

>Because a life long fan would see that JJ is not a fan of Star Trek, and did nothing but make a complete mockery of TOS.  If Rodenberry were remaking the series it would resemble TNG.  Point blank, if you like the Abrams movies, then you are not really a fan of Star Trek.  Deal with that fact.

>


I am a life long fan, since 1974, and I dont see JJ's films as a complete mockery.Now thats not to say I dont think he made mistakes............he made pleanty of mistakes.But for their worth, they were rather enjoyable and very reminisent of Geene's work on the original series with all the action and fight sceens.


True, that may not have been what GR originaly wanted to do with TOS, but its what he did to get it on the air.And JJ's films were more enjoyable then most of the TNG movies.


And the guy behind one of the best Trek films Nicholas Meyer director of The wrath of Khan was also NOT A FAN............so I dont see the point of looking down on JJ for not being a fan either.


and the funny thing about Roddenberry...........he was pretty much fired from doing much work on TNG after season 3...........sure he still had some influance but not full control.


And you say JJ did nothing????????//Trek was all but a dead franchise, the last TNG films failed beyond hope, the last series, while great in my opinion, failed on tv.


JJ made trek relevent again, popular again..........Trek is making money again............


You Deal With That Fact


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stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 04 2013, 11:52 pm

Quote: davidjskipper @ Jul. 04 2013, 7:56 pm

> Have admitted to being in error on a few points and was willing to concede on some. To those respectful I have enjoyed conversing with you. There has been one in particular who has pointed out some errors in a polite way that has gain my deep respect.Thank You  stovokor2000-A. Seems the fans I hoped to convey some thoughts to have said there peace, just as I have and only the people who hope to pick fights remain, have fun.


thank you very much............but 1 more correction


It has nothing to do with him being British; it has to do with JJ having no idea who Khan was.


i would say you are incorrect on this as well do to the fact that J did cast a Latino first for the new Khan


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shaun.black.5895

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Report this Jul. 05 2013, 2:26 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Jul. 04 2013, 11:42 pm

>I am a life long fan, since 1974, and I dont see JJ's films as a complete mockery.Now thats not to say I dont think he made mistakes............he made pleanty of mistakes.But for their worth, they were rather enjoyable and very reminisent of Geene's work on the original series with all the action and fight sceens.

>True, that may not have been what GR originaly wanted to do with TOS, but its what he did to get it on the air.And JJ's films were more enjoyable then most of the TNG movies.

>And the guy behind one of the best Trek films Nicholas Meyer director of The wrath of Khan was also NOT A FAN............so I dont see the point of looking down on JJ for not being a fan either.

>and the funny thing about Roddenberry...........he was pretty much fired from doing much work on TNG after season 3...........sure he still had some influance but not full control.

>And you say JJ did nothing????????//Trek was all but a dead franchise, the last TNG films failed beyond hope, the last series, while great in my opinion, failed on tv.

>JJ made trek relevent again, popular again..........Trek is making money again............

>You Deal With That Fact

>


 


It seems to me that your emotional connection to TOS has clouded your judgment.  Are you not a fan of TNG? Do you not consider it the standard to go by? All the series that followed carried elements that were created by the TNG writers and directors. 


What is your issues with the TNG movies? Frakes directed most of them, and did a hell of a job making them into long, wonderful episodes that show off Trek morality. 


Star Trek was not dead before Abrams came on board.  As Iv said many times, I would rather watch all the old movies and episodes over and over again before I watch another Abram hack job.  In fact, I am watching "The Loss" 4th season TNG episode as I write this.  Rather its TOS, TNG, Voyager, DS9, or Enterprise, they are all inexhaustiblel from my perspective.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 9:33 am

Quote: shaun.black.5895 @ Jul. 05 2013, 2:26 am

>It seems to me that your emotional connection to TOS has clouded your judgment.  Are you not a fan of TNG? Do you not consider it the standard to go by? All the series that followed carried elements that were created by the TNG writers and directors. 

>What is your issues with the TNG movies? Frakes directed most of them, and did a hell of a job making them into long, wonderful episodes that show off Trek morality. 

>Star Trek was not dead before Abrams came on board.  As Iv said many times, I would rather watch all the old movies and episodes over and over again before I watch another Abram hack job.  In fact, I am watching "The Loss" 4th season TNG episode as I write this.  Rather its TOS, TNG, Voyager, DS9, or Enterprise, they are all inexhaustiblel from my perspective.


It seems to me you need to learn how to read people better.I havent been emotional at all, nor do I hold TOS up a my fave., so nothing is clouding my judement.I love TNG....its not my fav Trek but its tied as number 2 with TOS.My fa Trek is DS9


My issues with the TNG movies was that they just werent very good good movies...........most just eemed like extended episodes.And Nemisiswas as much of, if not more of a rip of TWOK as JJ's last film. Jonathan Frakes directed 2 of them not most, and did a hell of a job on only 1...First contact.


Star Trek was not indeed on deaths doorstep before JJ was asked to came to do a fillm, denying that is delibrate ingnorance.I have no prob watching old episodes, as you are, I;m currently re-watching season 6 of DS9.


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daveedie

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POSTS: 2

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 7:13 pm

startrek is back!!!!!revamped and re styled but neverless we are back!we all love and cherish it but it time for a younger,different audience,


 

daveedie

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POSTS: 2

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 7:18 pm

would you not like to see startrek contue?

TheCinC

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POSTS: 14

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 8:31 pm

I am a lifelong fan. I have watched every episode of every ST show over and over many times. I have watched all the movies the same. While I respect what Trek was and is, I must say that the thing some of you don't get is that JJ never set out to remake his ST like the original in the first place. I actually enjoy the new movies as a different take on what we all knew. What did you think "reboot" meant? To tweak because the nacelles aren't the shape you are accustomed to is exactly the point...it's a new and different take. JJ and company never promised you YOUR Trek, he promised us a new take on things. I totally respect your dedication to the tried and true GR creation, but honestly, who are you to say that he wouldn't have loved these new takes? I felt Cumberbatch's Khan was fantastically cold and calculating. He was never trying to be Ricardo and I'm very happy he wasn't. All I'm saying is, I respect the old Trek and it holds a deep place in my Sci Fi heart. But I also appreciate the new JJ Trek as it's own entity.

Kdbtrekkin

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POSTS: 3648

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 8:57 pm

I will just say that I would put both new movies in the top 7, maybe even top 5.


"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires, seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert(Dune)

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