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A true Star Trek Fans honest and as neutral take on the JJ movie debate

Admiral Jimmy

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POSTS: 21

Report this Jul. 02 2013, 3:29 pm

Actually vulcanmerchant Avatar was the abeselute WORST movie i ever saw. Bad guy humans being defeated by aliens with spears? Totally unrealistic, dumb, idiotic, and well plain brainless the opposite of Star Trek. Please excuse me spelling im using a Amazon Kindle Fire to do this.

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 02 2013, 6:05 pm

duderanch, I see your point. I can understand that very well. There is paradoxy behind if it was said that the only possible form of participation would be if there was a good plot behind or the possibility to advance the Spock character.


Shaun, thank you for adding to my point of view. And Admiral Jimmy, Avatar was in my opinion, as good or as bad as both these new Star Trek movies. You have noticed that them "spears" are the size of a small tree and that the native wild life would even beat dinosaurs? Anyway. I won´t defend Avatar for more than it was at least an educative movie. Care for the planet and the planet will care for you. Very simple.

Admiral Jimmy

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Report this Jul. 02 2013, 6:13 pm

The planet is not alive and yes i know those spears are large but a big naked blue guy with a spear dosent stand a chance against a 6 foot armed human. A civilization as advanced as the humans were shouldve been able to caputre and secure that planet in 1 day. Thats all i have to say.


To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before and Protect Star Trek from LGBT

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 02 2013, 6:32 pm

(Not an Avatar thread. But I may suggest you put some 6 year old in a metall suit and see if you can beat him together with a few friends holding only broomsticks. I think I´ll be rooting for you  Still you missed the point the movie was trying to make it seems to me. I also did not mean that the planet was alive itself, which actually is very much indicated as Awa being a godlike conscience that binds every living creature. It was that togetherness and awareness that brought up all the wild life. Sure they could have taken the planer maybe not in one day but rather quick, but didn´t they build schools and try to get them to evacuate before going over to using force? The entire uprising of the indigenous folk and animals is part of a foretold legend, a unique happening that made the victory over the humans possible. In the end the message is : Care for earth now, before the moviequote "We killed our mother" becomes reality. Thats also what I meant before. And worst movie ... mm ... the question appears in my mind ... how many movies have you seen all in all? ... Learn not to exagerate if you are not trying to dramaticly make a point where you know you are overselling your argument. )


 


SAVEGUARD THE FUTURE OF STAR TREK!

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 02 2013, 7:24 pm

(People, read the thread about a new series Idea with a lot of the old cast members. In the general discussion board)

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 02 2013, 11:54 pm

Quote: davidjskipper @ Jun. 28 2013, 5:52 am

> But the ship Kirk's dad commanded was hugely larger than the original TOS flagship NCC-1701 and that was before the time change, which was ignorance on JJ's part.

>Was there love interest on the Enterprise? Yes, but never Spock and Uhura and what happen to change that? It was Scotty and Uhura, Spock and Nurse Chapel,

>"they made Khan, British and pretty much nothing like his original Latin self"  

>(sorry Chekov but a time change would not of made you older).


so what if the kelvin was large, we dont know what missions the ship was built for.it may have been a colony transport ship...that would explain its size


and the tos enterprise was never clled "the flag ship"


there was hints of a flirtation between Spock and Uhura in a few tos episodes


the haracter of Kan was not latin


the time change could hace cause checkovs parents to meet and have kids earlier


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stovokor2000-A

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Report this Jul. 03 2013, 12:16 am

Quote: davidjskipper @ Jun. 29 2013, 7:02 am

>

style="margin-left: .5in; text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in;">4.    "You know your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 “Where did Abrams get this?  The Flagship of the fleet before Nero would change the universe was going to be was the NCC 1701. At 300 meters (980 ft), and it had a capacity of 100 crew, but the Kelvin that this new father died on was an Einstein class and considered a scout ship. Are we to believe a scout ship would be 8X larger then a flag ship of the fleet?

style="margin-left: .5in; text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in;"> 

> 

style="margin-left: .5in; text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in;">7.    Oh and yes I did say “Kirks new father died on was an Einstein class” that is because Kirks of the original series (the one we know and love) Father was Colonel Benjamin Kirk listed as was a Human male and father-figure to the renowned James T. Kirk. Kirk was a hero of a military conflict known as the Klingon Repulsion. When James was twelve years old, Benjamin was awarded the posthumous Starfleet decoration, the Supreme Medal of Honor, and an acceptance letter from Commander Alden McWilliams confirmed Jim Kirk's honorary appointment to UFPSpaceAcademy. (TOS comic: "The Enterprise Logs, Volume 1")

style="margin-left: .5in; text-indent: -.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list .5in;">8.    The whole love crap between Spock and Uhura I see as a final slap in the face. No evidence is there that there was ever an interest. Read my first post and you will see the ones that were obvious but JJ mentioned in an interview that it was fun to do that. He got a chuckle at being disrespectful to something that means a lot to many fans

>


4 as i mentioned, the tos enterprise was not called the flag ship, that was a tng thing, and we dont know what ind of missions the kelvin was built for so we cant say much about its size


7 comic books rent canon


8 watch episodes like The man trap or charliy x


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davidjskipper

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POSTS: 9

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 3:18 am

Fleet Admiral Braxton [quote]


 "Since This Is,By definition,SCIENCE FICTION, It Is Just a Waste of Time And effort For Who we Call 'Purists' To Dissect The JJ Films Every chance they get; Why? Because Those of us With COMMON SENSE Know That No matter What New Twists That Are Added To Each Film/Charachter/Storyline, It Has Been,And, Will always Be Part Of The Vision Of Mr. Gene Roddenberry, A Man Who Understood Himself, How Fiction Works. Therefore, We Will Enjoy it For what It Is,And NOT Hate It For what it isn't; After All, The Same Debate Flared When Ronald D. Moore, A Trek Writer Himself, Brought Us the Re-Imagined Battlestar Galactica Ten Years Ago; People Didn't Understand it At First, But, When The Haters Started to Pay Attention, It was Better than the Original; So, All it takes is Patience; The Haters will eventually come Around."


[/quote]

I from the begining said I am not a JJ hater His Vrersion in my opinon only does not belong in te Star Trak family...it seems many agree. More agree on this post then disagree and I am open and try remain so....though this is science fiction and it must mater to you because not only are you commenting on this forum but you are a member of a sci fis site that it maters very much to.

The battle star comment I do not get. Wrong post I guess, this is Star Trek. But if you want to go there, no some of us who enjoyed the priginal Battlestar Galatica will never love the new one. It was a good show, but not a reboot, it was a remake lol An alternate universe Battle StarGalatica if you will. It is not the same show, story line or charactors. I watch the full second series that did reasonabley well as a spinn off but, one was Battle Star Galatica, the second was a Battle Star Galatica space Soap opra verion where everyone is a drunk sleeping around withe everyone but their mate,,,, inckuding the rebots.  Purelyl a ratings  ploy ffor a yoounger audiance that like Abraams finds the originall sci fis a little to ssmart for them. That comment may ave been a bit hard for some but I did say I would rmain honest as I could...still donot see how BBG got brought up in here, myst be a cylon trick

I am not a 45-65 crowd member. I grew up though with heros who made me want to be better then the world around me. The heros of these movies have to be draged out of bars and force to do something. We do not need heros that are the everyday people kids see everyday that drink there lives away, and have have a big sob story and then, and only then if the the right person talks them into it and circumstances force them to do what is right they do it. Any crack head on the street can have a moment of clearity and pull a kid out from infront of a moving car, that hardly makes him a hero, just a person wwhho did oone thing good for a second....Gene and writers like hin gave us real heros. Wait till you see your kid playing like he is getting drunk so he can be like Kirk and save the universe, or maybe play he has to beat the snot out of his friend so he can save the world.

The hereos we mimiced were above what JJ can see. LOL I just thought of this as I am typing, and yes, I am a huge Star Wars fan as well, but didn't one of JJ's childhood heros of Star Wars hae to be draged out of a bar??


To boldly go.....

davidjskipper

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POSTS: 9

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 5:13 am

stovokor2000-A


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By your record of post you have my respect. I rarely comment on much at all.


 


#1 & 4 First good catch on the Kelvin ship not being fully described, but of note Kelvin is another JJ fabrication from the start. Named after relatives and birthdays and such and discussed in fact it was twice in interviews. First as a survey ship an Einstein-class (which would doubtfully need a larger crew then a full exploration/science/battleship. Then it was later said JJ wanted it tougher looking, more war like, a battle cruiser. I find odd it would be being replaced by a smaller weaker vessel such as the TOS Constellation was often mentioned to be top of the line and one of star fleets finest (I still am not saying I am wrong or right. But I am willing to concede the point)

#7 was not from the comic books but from the animated tv series which Gene not only over saw but considered it the 4th season of TOS. Any facts said by others after his death or perhaps added by a book writer in error hardly override the creator’s approval in film, even if it was animated.

#8 acting under an alien influence does not mean Spock had feelings for Urhara. If you remember Kirk was Kirk who shocked TV by kissing Uhura on film while spoke was fighting his love for another


#9 for those keeping count I am not sure this is nine but I like 9.
my main point was not that Khan was Latino, though he did not hide it well, just that the accent and full personality had changed into something you wouldn’t see fit to feed to your
targ.
 


#10 I totally agree. While not explained, there could have been a whole baby boom once it was seen was out there and that Starfleet was preparing for war!!


 



I know I have not convinced you, but I do remain open to some explanations. But be sure, only one heck of a tie in film could bring these two movies into the style of Gene.

Here is a movie idea, Show Kirk falling with the scaffolding and jus before he dies, he sees all parts and pieces of JJs firms, looks up and says "oh my"
It would make since JJs movies was a dieing mans nightmare and give his last words more meaning!!


To boldly go.....

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 7:38 am

Quote: davidjskipper @ Jul. 03 2013, 5:13 am

>

class="username" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; line-height: 7.2pt; vertical-align: baseline; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">stovokor2000-A

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class="MsoNormal">By your record of post you have my respect. I rarely comment on much at all.


thank you very much, and I respect your very civil tone and post style.


#1 & 4 all of star trek is a fabrication, its all fiction.every ships name, every character seen, its all a fabrication.The Kelvin is as equal to that as anything ese in the series.


anything stated in interviews or magizine articals are not canon.Only info stated on screen is canon.


The class name of a ship doesnt really reveal anything about its mission or how big it needs to be or how much crew it needs so again, we really cant say hat the TOS Enterprise wasnt a good follow up ship nor can we say it was weaker.


and btw  the TOS enterprise was a "Constitution"  class ship not a Constellation and yes, it was often mentioned to be top of the line and one of star fleets finest , but not a flag ship.


#7 no disrespect but you realky need to check your facts before you post things.


Benjamin Kirk was not from the animated series.


you even posted were e is frim in your post.TOS comic: "The Enterprise Logs, Volume 1")


yes, Gene worked on he annimated series, but its widly known that he was very unhappy with how the series turned out.Geene himself de-cannon-ized the ANIMATED SERIES AND TOLD EVERYONE IT SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED PART OF TREK HISTORY.


there are reports his reasn for that were mostly money related but either way it speeks twards Geen feelings fot tas.


so again, this info is not canon



#8 again, watch tos episodes like "the man trap" qnd "charliy X".........he wasnt acting under any alien influence in those episodes.


#9 I agree new khan was a mistake over all


 


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willowtree

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Report this Jul. 03 2013, 7:55 am

I definately agree with the new Battlestar being much better than the original. But it had good writing, and great story lines on top of good special effects

crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 9:53 am

I grew up on the Original Series and have been a long time fan. If one long time fan can speak for all of them them you'll need to adjust your view. Abrams' movies are fair to good. How anyone could not admit that they're at least better than 75% of the Next Generation crap is beyond me.

Ethics are arbitrary.

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 03 2013, 10:57 am

Quote: crellmoset @ Jul. 03 2013, 9:53 am

>I grew up on the Original Series and have been a long time fan. If one long time fan can speak for all of them them you'll need to adjust your view. Abrams' movies are fair to good. How anyone could not admit that they're at least better than 75% of the Next Generation crap is beyond me.


because everyone has their own opinion

wissa

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POSTS: 4026

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 11:19 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 03 2013, 10:57 am

Quote: crellmoset @ Jul. 03 2013, 9:53 am

>

>I grew up on the Original Series and have been a long time fan. If one long time fan can speak for all of them them you'll need to adjust your view. Abrams' movies are fair to good. How anyone could not admit that they're at least better than 75% of the Next Generation crap is beyond me.

because everyone has their own opinion


and if your opinion is that you liked the movie you must be a teenager, a noob, or someone so blinded by thier love of kirk and spock they can't see something is bad right?  you couldn't possibly have seen and trek previously. 


 


 


 


 


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willowtree

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Report this Jul. 03 2013, 12:48 pm

Quote: wissa @ Jul. 03 2013, 11:19 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 03 2013, 10:57 am

Quote: crellmoset @ Jul. 03 2013, 9:53 am

>

>

>I grew up on the Original Series and have been a long time fan. If one long time fan can speak for all of them them you'll need to adjust your view. Abrams' movies are fair to good. How anyone could not admit that they're at least better than 75% of the Next Generation crap is beyond me.

because everyone has their own opinion

and if your opinion is that you liked the movie you must be a teenager, a noob, or someone so blinded by thier love of kirk and spock they can't see something is bad right?  you couldn't possibly have seen and trek previously. 

 

 

 


I never said anything like that to anyone,


 


but it's along the same lines of those who didn't like the movie being called disloyal to trek, overly critical, bad trekkies and equally stupid things

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