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Things will WIILL NOT see in JJ Abrams' Star Trek

Vulcan merchant

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 08 2013, 4:39 pm

I fail to see the advantage for women if they are taken seriously while being shot or while serving as tender moral guides. Actually I haven´t even thought about that aspect. But it seems to me that to engage in the gender-question via creating loudmouthed and all too brave women instead of having them be part of the full spectrum is not very fullfilling. One may say it is charming that JJ takes up the same ridicule sentiment of TOS concerning women. Maybe he even wanted to create the nostalgic thought "remember when women were horses?" and have that "Mad Men" sentiment work our for his schemes.  


And the Spock-Uhura relationship is just plain wrong, even if Troi and Whorf were married in an alternate reality, what is actually a good point. Spock had never had an open relationship, and if he had, than it was, like I said before, caused by spores, mind control, etc. Well, one could say that everything is possible, that anything can happen - but even if you take in account a young Spock he is supposed to be a lot older and more mature than the rest. To change his personality and circumvent an actual pillar of Star Trek is just rude and disrespectfull and nothing more than a longshot to implicate the same sentiment people had back in the days when they watched TOS only ocasionally and came across one episode when Spock fell in love.

1trekwars1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 09 2013, 3:07 am

TNG did not really correct the mistake, If it did then Troi and Worf would not have been married in any alternate universe. Or even better there would have been no need for lots of episode that was centred on alternate universes.



The episode with Worf birthday , we saw more than a 100 plus version of the enterprise each from a parallel universe.



I also think you are been unfair about the character of Nu-Spock. TOS Spock had 3 seasons and 6 movies. There was enough time of him to show his Vulcan side aka his emotionless side.



NU-Spock only has had 2 films.  It makes sense for the writers of the film to split his character between logic and emotion.



You bring up the love affair between spock/uhura. Now I don’t know much about whether it was right or wrong.



However I do know that relationships between a teacher and a student is forbidden in high school. I am not sure if it is forbidden in a higher institution like star fleet academy.



Spok did mention something about avoiding the appearance of favouritism, which means while the relationship is frowned upon, it is not forbidden based on star fleets regulations. So Spock did not really go against  Star Fleet rules with the love affair.



Kirk is also not a sore loser, he was just ranting about his frustration with Spock who is to Kirk too Vulcan  for his own good..kirk even told  Spock to loosen up.



You claim that  women are not  ranked. First of all, there is one lead female in trek and that is uhura and she is a Lt. however the women that Kirk manage to save after khan attacked a meeting full of star fleet high officers seems to be a woman in a position of power.



Carol is now on the ship and she has a PHD.



Also again,  I just don’t know why you keep saying Spock should never have embraced human emotions or should even been in a relatonship. HIS FATHER WHO WAS FULL VULCAN DID EMBRACE HIS EMOTIONS.


 


Sarak married Amanda because of his emotion. He didn’t marry her because of logic.



Sarek to Spock in the 2009 film: ‘‘I married your mother because I loved her’’



That was perhaps one of the most touching part of 09 treks. After George Kirk's death.



Dude, I think some of you guys  need to calm down. It is clear that your hate and anger has blinded you for reasoning logically  and fairly.


 

Vulcan merchant

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 09 2013, 7:50 pm

Hate has that special ability to blindfold logic. Also has love. You seem to find a lot of right answers, but in the end none of those points really mattered. Sure, Star Trek has a big history on different realities, but each story held the general Star Trek tone, as far as I remember. This alternate universe tries to sell something that by chance is credible, but then again, anything is posible. You could have Kirk fall in love with Spock, you could have the Borg become a peacecorp, that is not the point either. The movie is straight out action based while it tries to stay on top on things that can be debated about. Sure, JJ himself has no idea about Star Trek, so he found a team that includes hardcore fans to straighten out those improbalities we or mostly you are talking about. I dont buy the film because it is not and will never be part of what I percieve is Star Trek. It has no educational value at all, more than if you hire an uprising science ficcion director and reboot a beloved series you will ever get your moneys worth. Star Trek sold out. And anyone who is blindfolded to aknowlegde that is either just interested in the action sequences or has never undestood that Star Trek was an unchallenched mentor for so many of us, that it made us the people we are today, that it stood out on broken shores while others were drowing in stupidity.

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Jul. 10 2013, 9:14 am

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 09 2013, 3:07 am

>

>TNG did not really correct the mistake, If it did then Troi and Worf would not have been married in any alternate universe. Or even better there would have been no need for lots of episode that was centred on alternate universes.

>
The episode with Worf birthday , we saw more than a 100 plus version of the enterprise each from a parallel universe.

>
I also think you are been unfair about the character of Nu-Spock. TOS Spock had 3 seasons and 6 movies. There was enough time of him to show his Vulcan side aka his emotionless side.

>
NU-Spock only has had 2 films.  It makes sense for the writers of the film to split his character between logic and emotion.

>
You bring up the love affair between spock/uhura. Now I don’t know much about whether it was right or wrong.

>
However I do know that relationships between a teacher and a student is forbidden in high school. I am not sure if it is forbidden in a higher institution like star fleet academy.

>
Spok did mention something about avoiding the appearance of favouritism, which means while the relationship is frowned upon, it is not forbidden based on star fleets regulations. So Spock did not really go against  Star Fleet rules with the love affair.

>
Kirk is also not a sore loser, he was just ranting about his frustration with Spock who is to Kirk too Vulcan  for his own good..kirk even told  Spock to loosen up.

>
You claim that  women are not  ranked. First of all, there is one lead female in trek and that is uhura and she is a Lt. however the women that Kirk manage to save after khan attacked a meeting full of star fleet high officers seems to be a woman in a position of power.

>
Carol is now on the ship and she has a PHD.

>
Also again,  I just don’t know why you keep saying Spock should never have embraced human emotions or should even been in a relatonship. HIS FATHER WHO WAS FULL VULCAN DID EMBRACE HIS EMOTIONS.

>Sarak married Amanda because of his emotion. He didn’t marry her because of logic.

>
Sarek to Spock in the 2009 film: ‘‘I married your mother because I loved her’’

>
That was perhaps one of the most touching part of 09 treks. After George Kirk's death.

>
Dude, I think some of you guys  need to calm down. It is clear that your hate and anger has blinded you for reasoning logically  and fairly.

>


Look, JJ Abrams has no concept of what made Star Trek good, all he did was throw a bunch of actors together and made a PARODY of Star Trek ..


Star Trek at it's best touch on deep philosophical topics on humanity using GOOD story telling and drama with science fiction that did not insult our intelligence but inspire us, JJ Abrams did none of this, but like most of todays action films, they're made basically for people with no attention span. 


When Spock ask Sarek in TOS why he married his mother Sarek said " It was the logical thing to do." there are many reasons why the Spock / Uhura affair was wrong other than regulations, how can a logical being have a relationship with a highly emotion female who's controlling ? Uhura acts likes She's the captain in some scenes, we want cool Spock back, not some loser who can't control his girlfriend .. But if you like Abrams Trek, good for you.


As for Worf and Troi, that affair was a bad experiment, Marina Sirtis who played Troi didn't even like it, but they did correct by having Riker and Troi get back together 


 


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this Jul. 10 2013, 10:30 am

Worfroi was wrong because there was no build up. One day there are suddenly an item. At least with Riker there was, even an allusion in the first episode of some romance in the past. Jadzia and Worf made more sense. But even that wasn't as good as Worf's relationship with Kaylar. It was also dumb to hook up Jadzia Dax with Worf, then after the host dies, hook up Ezri Dax with Dr. Bashir. The "Rejoined" episode established that a trill's feelings can transcent the host.


He'sDeadJim6400, not only can NuSpock not control NuUhura, he can't even control himself! And why would a half-Vulcan fall for the most controlling, illogical and highly emotional of all the females we've seen on Enterprise? Yes, I'm talking about NuUhura only, not the classic Uhura who had class, and wasn't a b*tch!

1trekwars1

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POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 10 2013, 12:54 pm

First of all, worf and troi were married in an alternate reality. We didn’t need much of a background on that. Worf and Troi did have their few moments in the prime universe just like Spock and Uhura.


hey guys, did you see my avatar ?  that is HERMIONE  GRANGER.



uhura is nowhere near as bossy or as controlling as Hermione from Harry Potter or as Trinity from Matrix or even princess Leia from star wars.



I done see this ladies getting any hate and I finally know why. Star wars, harry potter and The matrix is not a franchise that is made up for white males guys.



And please how does Uhura have no class explain to me in the two films when and where.



Was  it  when she pushed Jim  away  after he grabbed her boobs or when she threw him out of her room for sleeping with her roommate or when she stood up for herself and demanded she be put on the right ship? Or when she spoke respectfully to captain pike? Or when she comforted Spock PRIVATELY after his planet got destroyed and his mum died?


As for Spock not controlling himself , he lost his best friend, his mother and his planet. Would you be able to control yourself if you were in Spock’s shoes?



People like you guys are the reasons why star trek will always be a niche  franchise .TOS star trek fan boys see a strong and confidence woman and they call her a bitch.



You guys also say how can Spock fall for someone like uhura..Well maybe because she is smart, at the top of her class and perhaps does not sleep around with guys like her roommate.


In the 09 film, it is was obvious that spock and uhura disliked  Kirk for the same reasons. Kirk was an all over the place kind of guy, reckless, arrogant and felt like he was entitled to everything.  If Spock and Uhura disliked Kirk because of his attitude then they have a lot in common or may be both can relate to each other because both may have experienced prejudice and discrimination. (Spock has)



Also again, Uhura is the lead female in the film so there is no other woman to fall for.



What is so sad about this thread is that it has no substance. It is just a hate tread with no logic.



Am going to the Jedi council forums, The people on that site are logical and have a good head on their shoulder.
I will leave guys to your hate thoughts.


Thank you for convincing me on why Star Wars will always be better than star trek. (The star wars demographic is not made of dominant  white males who can’t handle a woman)


You guys seem to love uhura in TOS....The Uhura that was just a background character and did absolutely nothing.

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this Jul. 11 2013, 11:18 am

I say Uhura has no class because she is infantile and doesn't respect the chain of command. During the Kobayashi Maru simulation, look at the way she talks down to Kirk. Or how she is such a prima donna that she can't tolerate being placed on the Farragut. Old Uhura would have been graceful and grateful for the assignment and not acted like an entitled little brat.


In the second film, NuUhura comes off as extremely needy. Its pretty obvious Spock doesn't really understand or care for her, he's almost kind of using her. It makes no sense for her to throw herself at him the way she's doing.


Only speaking for myself, I don't like NuUhura. I don't consider this hate. Its just my opinion. Describing NuUhura as a b*tch is accurate. This is totally based on her attitude only, not her sex or race. You can believe whatever you want about Trek fans, I take no responsibility.

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 11 2013, 12:21 pm

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 10 2013, 12:54 pm

>

>First of all, worf and troi were married in an alternate reality. We didn’t need much of a background on that. Worf and Troi did have their few moments in the prime universe just like Spock and Uhura.

>hey guys, did you see my avatar ?  that is HERMIONE  GRANGER.

>
uhura is nowhere near as bossy or as controlling as Hermione from Harry Potter or as Trinity from Matrix or even princess Leia from star wars.

>
I done see this ladies getting any hate and I finally know why. Star wars, harry potter and The matrix is not a franchise that is made up for white males guys.

>
And please how does Uhura have no class explain to me in the two films when and where.

>
Was  it  when she pushed Jim  away  after he grabbed her boobs or when she threw him out of her room for sleeping with her roommate or when she stood up for herself and demanded she be put on the right ship? Or when she spoke respectfully to captain pike? Or when she comforted Spock PRIVATELY after his planet got destroyed and his mum died?

>As for Spock not controlling himself , he lost his best friend, his mother and his planet. Would you be able to control yourself if you were in Spock’s shoes?

>
People like you guys are the reasons why star trek will always be a niche  franchise .TOS star trek fan boys see a strong and confidence woman and they call her a bitch.

>
You guys also say how can Spock fall for someone like uhura..Well maybe because she is smart, at the top of her class and perhaps does not sleep around with guys like her roommate.

>In the 09 film, it is was obvious that spock and uhura disliked  Kirk for the same reasons. Kirk was an all over the place kind of guy, reckless, arrogant and felt like he was entitled to everything.  If Spock and Uhura disliked Kirk because of his attitude then they have a lot in common or may be both can relate to each other because both may have experienced prejudice and discrimination. (Spock has)

>
Also again, Uhura is the lead female in the film so there is no other woman to fall for.

>
What is so sad about this thread is that it has no substance. It is just a hate tread with no logic.

>
Am going to the Jedi council forums, The people on that site are logical and have a good head on their shoulder.
I will leave guys to your hate thoughts.

>Thank you for convincing me on why Star Wars will always be better than star trek. (The star wars demographic is not made of dominant  white males who can’t handle a woman)

>You guys seem to love uhura in TOS....The Uhura that was just a background character and did absolutely nothing.

>


Congratulations, DJ.  Your charm and class has driven yet another intelligent and thoughtful female poster from these boards.


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 11 2013, 12:31 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Jul. 10 2013, 9:14 am

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 09 2013, 3:07 am

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>TNG did not really correct the mistake, If it did then Troi and Worf would not have been married in any alternate universe. Or even better there would have been no need for lots of episode that was centred on alternate universes.

>
The episode with Worf birthday , we saw more than a 100 plus version of the enterprise each from a parallel universe.

>
I also think you are been unfair about the character of Nu-Spock. TOS Spock had 3 seasons and 6 movies. There was enough time of him to show his Vulcan side aka his emotionless side.

>
NU-Spock only has had 2 films.  It makes sense for the writers of the film to split his character between logic and emotion.

>
You bring up the love affair between spock/uhura. Now I don’t know much about whether it was right or wrong.

>
However I do know that relationships between a teacher and a student is forbidden in high school. I am not sure if it is forbidden in a higher institution like star fleet academy.

>
Spok did mention something about avoiding the appearance of favouritism, which means while the relationship is frowned upon, it is not forbidden based on star fleets regulations. So Spock did not really go against  Star Fleet rules with the love affair.

>
Kirk is also not a sore loser, he was just ranting about his frustration with Spock who is to Kirk too Vulcan  for his own good..kirk even told  Spock to loosen up.

>
You claim that  women are not  ranked. First of all, there is one lead female in trek and that is uhura and she is a Lt. however the women that Kirk manage to save after khan attacked a meeting full of star fleet high officers seems to be a woman in a position of power.

>
Carol is now on the ship and she has a PHD.

>
Also again,  I just don’t know why you keep saying Spock should never have embraced human emotions or should even been in a relatonship. HIS FATHER WHO WAS FULL VULCAN DID EMBRACE HIS EMOTIONS.

>Sarak married Amanda because of his emotion. He didn’t marry her because of logic.

>
Sarek to Spock in the 2009 film: ‘‘I married your mother because I loved her’’

>
That was perhaps one of the most touching part of 09 treks. After George Kirk's death.

>
Dude, I think some of you guys  need to calm down. It is clear that your hate and anger has blinded you for reasoning logically  and fairly.

>

Look, JJ Abrams has no concept of what made Star Trek good, all he did was throw a bunch of actors together and made a PARODY of Star Trek ..

I don't recall any film critic referring to Abrams ST films as parodies at all.  Heck, Mark Altman, one of the biggest ST fans of all time, gave very positive reviews to both of them. 

Star Trek at it's best touch on deep philosophical topics on humanity using GOOD story telling and drama with science fiction that did not insult our intelligence but inspire us, JJ Abrams did none of this, but like most of todays action films, they're made basically for people with no attention span. 

I didn't find Abrams films any different in terms of topic and storytelling than most of the other ST films.  And I personally enjoyed both of his films and I definitely don't have a problem with my attention span.  If I did, I wouldn't have been able to get a PhD in AE (try reading fluid mechanics, math, or physics books cover to cover).

When Spock ask Sarek in TOS why he married his mother Sarek said " It was the logical thing to do." there are many reasons why the Spock / Uhura affair was wrong other than regulations, how can a logical being have a relationship with a highly emotion female who's controlling ?

Uhura wasn't controlling anymore than Amanda was.  In fact, I didn't find her controlling at all.  IMO she came across as an intelligent, capable officer who wanted an equal relationship with Spock.  She's not much different than my own wife and other girls I dated and know.

Uhura acts likes She's the captain in some scenes,

No she doesn't. 

we want cool Spock back, not some loser who can't control his girlfriend


So you think girlfriends should be "controlled."  Got it.  You do sound sexist. How's that working with you?  Found a girl you can control yet?


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

1trekwars1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 11 2013, 1:19 pm

 


Most people don’t take responsibility of their illogical reasoning its part of what makes them stupid. So, its your problem not mine, Am not the one with all the hate, you talk of how uhura talks down on kirk yet you failed to mention kirk own awful behaviour. him eating an apple  and slyfully talking to uhura and bones.  Kirk wasn’t even taking the test seriously or worse kirk basically screaming at Spock who was his captain .


so kirk gets a free pass for  his   awful behaviour and uhura is the bitch. Kirk is the one sleeping around  with women and constantly breaking the rules and uhura is still the bitch.


Stupid logic much????


kirk using galia and not caring for her does not seem to bother  you.


The sexism by trek male fans is ridiculous.


Still wondering why trek is a niche franchise???????


 

1trekwars1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 11 2013, 1:34 pm

Quote: chator56 @ Jul. 11 2013, 11:18 am

>

>I say Uhura has no class because she is infantile and doesn't respect the chain of command. During the Kobayashi Maru simulation, look at the way she talks down to Kirk. Or how she is such a prima donna that she can't tolerate being placed on the Farragut. Old Uhura would have been graceful and grateful for the assignment and not acted like an entitled little brat.

>In the second film, NuUhura comes off as extremely needy. Its pretty obvious Spock doesn't really understand or care for her, he's almost kind of using her. It makes no sense for her to throw herself at him the way she's doing.

>Only speaking for myself, I don't like NuUhura. I don't consider this hate. Its just my opinion. Describing NuUhura as a b*tch is accurate. This is totally based on her attitude only, not her sex or race. You can believe whatever you want about Trek fans, I take no responsibility.

>


 


 


Also again , Uhura did not throw herself at Spock that is just plain IDOTIC and SEXIST. o yeah, the woman is throwing herself  at the man who according to you is simply using her????



You make Uhura sound like a prostitute/mistress.



Uhura and Spock both chose to enter a romantic relationship.  Neither of them is throwing themselves at each other, they don’t need to since both of theme are already romantic linked.


 


The logic is that simple .it stupid that you dont get it.



You perhaps have never had a girlfriend otherwise you would know this.



My gosh what is wrong with you.  Am guessing you threw yourself at a girl and she turned you down.



There is no logic for your hate against uhura. so that mean it  comes down to two things  gender and race.

Vulcan merchant

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 12 2013, 9:48 am

Miss Granger, don´t shoot yourself in the leg. I can respectfully understand the criticsm on sexism. With me, I don´t care for any relationship Spock would beginn with anyone - Vulcans just do not go around falling in love making it a big deal, even if someone dies or even a planet explodes. They are Vulcan for logics sake. Nothing against creating strong role modells for women. Maybe you ought to watch other series, like game of thrones, Defiance or Battlestar Galactica, there women are really taken seriously, not just with a cheap-shot-fall-in-love-trickery.


Why I say don´t shoot yourself in the leg, is you just cannot "demask us" as a white boys club that is sexist, because then you have not been reading carefully enough to understand what is really bothering us. I for myself am not hating anyone, I am hating the concept that has been aggressively put over what once was Star Trek. (Also I am not white)


My concern has always been (and the really sad thing about this thread is that is has to be repeated so often to get through) with the degradation of intrinsic values. I repeat again :


I dont buy the film because it is not and will never be part of what I percieve is Star Trek. It has no educational value at all, more than if you hire an uprising science ficcion director and reboot a beloved series you will ever get your moneys worth. Star Trek sold out. And anyone who is blindfolded to aknowlegde that is either just interested in the action sequences or has never undestood that Star Trek was an unchallenched mentor for so many of us, that it made us the people we are today, that it stood out on broken shores while others were drowing in stupidity.


We are not a white only guys club, Miss Granger, by far. And by making that statement you just fall into the level you accuse some us to have fallen allready. Try to understand that this is beloved franchise that deserves better. I am not saying it deserves better special effects, a better cast, or even a better alltogether writing or directing. It needs to get back the dignity it held between the lines. It needs revelations that will let people grwo beyond their distrust and intolerance, not just be there for effect and noise. And don´t say we need to be tolerant with the new movies if we are to stay true to the words I just uttered, because we can be. But tolerance has its limits. I will tolerate it, as I have also stated more than once, as standalone action scifimovies with a certain twistendingeffect included. Never, no, never, as the legacy Star Trek should have.


Answer to me, if you are willing to take up a serious chat, instead of just pointing your finger at the all male white boys club you wrongly seem to perceive.

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this Jul. 12 2013, 10:49 am

VM, 1trekwars1 reveals herself as the hater and racist she accuses me of being in her replies above. You're right that Vulcans are not the romantic types. You want romance in Trek go to Paris/Torres in VOYAGER or Odo/Kira in DS9. There is absolutely no romance or courting from NuSpock in any of the new movies, that's why I say NuUhura threw herself at him. How does that observation make me a sexist? There's no truth in 1trekwars1's accusations.

Vulcan merchant

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 12 2013, 11:43 am

(Well chator, in the few postings I have read, you don´t strike me as sexist or being a hater. I think I value your statements. Still, I understand we need to pipe down some times, me maybe more than you. But I also don´t think that Miss Granger here is a bigot or a racist, she just explodes with emotion, which is anyones right. I am full of dissapointment because of the direction the franchise has taken. To each his/her own.)

1trekwars1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 12 2013, 11:52 am

Quote: chator56 @ Jul. 12 2013, 10:49 am

>

>VM, 1trekwars1 reveals herself as the hater and racist she accuses me of being in her replies above. You're right that Vulcans are not the romantic types. You want romance in Trek go to Paris/Torres in VOYAGER or Odo/Kira in DS9. There is absolutely no romance or courting from NuSpock in any of the new movies, that's why I say NuUhura threw herself at him. How does that observation make me a sexist? There's no truth in 1trekwars1's accusations.

>


 



Who said I wanted  romance on Trek. Trek has always had romance since it first aired that is not my doing.  Your observation makes you sexist because you failed to mention that uhura and spock  both chose to enter  a relationship together. Why is the woman geting all the hate when the Man is also to blame?.


I  am not sure , I can take you seriously anymore as  I don’t think you have watched the films at all. Saying there is no romance or courting  between them is so ridiculous.



If there was no romance or courtship between them why are you so mad that they are in a relationship in the first place?



It’s so Ironic  you used the word courtship because  in the comics that is how Spock describes their relationship:  as a courtship. Kirk refers to Spock as Uhura’s boyfriend in the second film, In the first film  Spock was about to send his love to Uhura  in case he did not come back. Both Spock and Uhura delibretly kiss each other. Last I cheked you need to be roamantly liked with someone to allow them to kiss you.


 


So again, how can you say there is no courting or romance from Spock. You see, this is the huge probelm with many Trek fans  who logically argue  on why the relationship is wrong.


 


To some Trek fans who I greatly respect, they belive that Spock shows too much emtions with Uhura. once again   you have to be courting  someone to be so emtoionally attached  to them



DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE FILMS AT ALL?


 


See this is the thing with haters like you, the truth is right in front of you and you deliberately choose to ignore it because the truth does not  suit your   views.


Your accusation at NuUhura is plain sexist because she is a girl. It is very flat out wrong for a guy to say that a girl is throwing themselves at him when it is basically not true.


 


AM DONE.


 

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