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Things will WIILL NOT see in JJ Abrams' Star Trek

He'sDeadJim6400

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POSTS: 113

Report this Jun. 26 2013, 9:32 am

Star Trek Into Darkness is not the mega hit the first movie was, it was only number 1 for a week, then it was down hill from there.We know how much the writers Orci and Kurtzman got wrong,how they took scenes from other Trek movies and screwed them up..But lets have a debate about what we won't see in JJ Abramsversion of Trek, as we debates these points.


We will not see


1. Women wearing ranks- another stupid move to keep females as sex objects rather than serious     officers, they prance around in mini skirts like college sorority girls, they got Uhura drooling over Spock in the entire movie.


2. NO new direction-Who wants to see a lame Wrath Of Kahn remake, wheres this new direction Abrams was talking about ?


3. No believeable Engineering room- again a beer factory shouldn't power a Star ship.


4. No Honorable Klingons- a few thugs in masks and trenchcoats dosen't make a powerful Empire.


5. No Kirk as Good as Shatners Kirk- Let's face it Chris pine is okay but he just dosen't have the stuff to equal Shatners Kirk, he was indecisive, confused, scared, half the crew dosen't trust him, who would take orders from this guy ?


6. No Star Trek story with promise and adventure- being that the writers of this movie are on a Kindergarden level we will never see this in the next Trek film, unless they're replaced.


7. No Character developement- all the characters are the same, some even became worse.


8. No Nurse Chapel- She's mention but never seen, she's the one who should had been Spock's love interest instead of Uhura, another dumb move.


9. A believeable Star Fleet- They're always getting their butt kick or running away from something, watch Deep Space nine.


10. NO Awesome New Alien vilians- I guarantee this is something we'll never see.


11. No good version of Pike- Yep, Jeffrey hunters Pike was a hero, he got injured rescuing people, this Pike died in an attack, a missed opportunity.  


any more ? add to it.  


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this Jun. 26 2013, 12:04 pm

There is some modest character development for Kirk in STID. He goes from being a lying Prime Directive defying self-absorbed Captain (how someone with that kind of character even becomes a captain of a Starship speaks bad for the Federation in Abramsverse and the military of the future, not to speak of Admiral Marcus) to a captain that listens to members of his crew, is willing to keep himself from acting impulsively, and is even willing to work with someone he deems his enemy in order to save his crew from being destroyed. The real question is why someone of his character and temperment is even allowed to command a starship to begin with, and why his character grow has to occur at the cost or risk of the lives of the many serving under him. It goes without saying that a captain should be able to restrain himself from acting impulsively, be willing to listen to members of his crew who are professionals in their own right, and even be willing to self-sacrifice for the safety of the crew. One thing the film does get right is that Kirk was promoted too quickly, and therefore his style of command is immature, and reckless.

kevin.nelson.1291

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POSTS: 26

Report this Jun. 27 2013, 10:02 am

Old audiences are attracted by nostalgia, new ones don't realise they're getting an inferior product. I think that's the way things break down for most reboots, including Star Trek.

1trekwars1

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POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 01 2013, 7:54 am

Considering the fact that Uhura did next to nothing in TOS , JJ upgraded her in his universe. I believe that uhura would be better off as a Star Wars character. it is obvious that a woman of colour been the lead in a franchise like TOS TREK which is mostly white male dominated and ruled by slash fan girls has greatly upset a lot of TOS Trek fans. A charcater like uhura will work better in a franchise that is loved by everyone who is anyone aka STAR WARS.

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 01 2013, 6:57 pm

Quote: kevin.nelson.1291 @ Jun. 27 2013, 10:02 am

>I am ever so glad to see that the opinions that uncover and expose the new direction of the franchise as a failed attempt to reboot a classic and beloved series have the upper hand.

>

>Old audiences are attracted by nostalgia, new ones don't realise they're getting an inferior product. I think that's the way things break down for most rebbots, including Star Trek.

>


 


That is maybe one of the few reasons I am able to accept, why people can like the new movies. Within my friends opinions differ, still I seem to be the only one who has watched every single episode of every series ever made at least two or three times. (With DS9 and Voyager its much more than that). I am not saying that my opinion should count more, but it could be a hint that I could be able to have a wider picture than those who only watched ocasionally. I sincerly do not understand how people that have been following the series since childhood can cope or even defend the new development.


Well, if the Uhura-upgrade was really felicitous I dare not say, still I don´t see how to connect her to Star Wars ...


SAVEGUARD THE FUTURE OF STAR TREK!

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 01 2013, 7:22 pm

I will also add that the use of the name Nibiru is a show of a lack of real interest or depth. "God" knows were the production team heard the name. If you study ancient sumarian scrolls you will find out that they speak about the gods arriving from Planet Nibiru. It is supposed to be a planet much larger than Jupiter that enters our solar system every few ten thousands of years. It it supposed to destabilize the orbits of all planets creating chaos throughout the galaxy. The movie 4th kind is an examination of that theme, also if one does not want to go through dusty old scrolls (or their facsimilae) one can read up in the works of Zecharia Sitchin. (Yes, you my be shocked in finding out that the bible copies the main themes of those scrolls)


So what won´t we see : A well handled use of scifi near names or topics´(as for example in Harry Potter. Rowling used whatever name was related with magic or legend and mixed them up however she saw fit. Nevertheless she mananged to create something worthy. One can doubt if the same use of mosaic based religious topics in japanase mangas is well handled or not)


SAVEGUARD THE FUTURE OF STAR TREK!

skok

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jul. 01 2013, 7:48 pm

Agreed with most everything ive read. Todays generation just Adds CGI to everything & calls it Better/2.0  With no appreciation or even curiosity for the nostalgia & entrigue that made it a 50 Year Icon in the first place.  Everytime they Reboot a "My Generation" show/movie. . . . .im constantly asking, Cant todays Generation think of anything on their own?  


 


Another good example, Is Battlestar Galactica, Great TOS. . . .but they "Hollywood" butchered the New version, but tha's a different conversation. 

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 01 2013, 8:02 pm

(If it were not a different topic I would have to strongly disagree with the new version of Battlestar Galactica being a butchered version of the old. But since it is a different topic I will stay silent.)


In my opinion there is no shame in rebooting any old series, as long as the result has quality. What was really butchered was the A-Team, Miami Vice and worst of all : my beloved Star Trek.

skok

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 8:42 am

I just wanted to add one more BSG comment. . . .On its own, BSG was a fine Show. . .i still watched, most of it anyhow, but as an Homage to TOS, it was insulting. (similar to JJ's Kahn Vs "Our Kahn")  Maybe New BSG could have renamed the Galactica & had the Adventures of a different Battlestar. 


 


Back to Star Trek, another thing that always Irks me is the Movies luv to destroy Enterprises. . . or threaten to.  In First Contact when Piccard set the Auto Derstruct, i was Like "Not again, this is like 3 Enterprises in 6 Movies, Geez!  I dont want to see a DS9 Movie. . . .They'll Blow it Up!!

1trekwars1

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POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 3:56 am

you can connect a charcater like uhura to star wars beause star wars has a different demogrpahic. star wars  is  a franchise that is for everyone  who is anyone. star wars is not a franhise like TOS  whcih is made up of white males and slash fan girls. If uhura was a star wars character there will be more room for aceptance of her.



Just look at the sexism from the first post,  please since when did uhura drool over Spock? it is quite clear that the orginal comment on this board did not watch the film propeply. people only  drool over another person when they have a crush on the person but are too shy to ask them out.last I watched both 2 films that was not the nature of the S/U relationship.

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Jul. 06 2013, 11:38 am

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 05 2013, 3:56 am

>

>you can connect a charcater like uhura to star wars beause star wars has a different demogrpahic. star wars  is  a franchise that is for everyone  who is anyone. star wars is not a franhise like TOS  whcih is made up of white males and slash fan girls. If uhura was a star wars character there will be more room for aceptance of her.

>
Just look at the sexism from the first post,  please since when did uhura drool over Spock? it is quite clear that the orginal comment on this board did not watch the film propeply. people only  drool over another person when they have a crush on the person but are too shy to ask them out.last I watched both 2 films that was not the nature of the S/U relationship.

>


It's not a sexist comment, but an observation, JJ Abrams ruined Star Trek, The Spock /Uhura relationship makes no sense, and the "nature" of that relationship is Uhura bossing Spock around and nagging him, she nag him to get on the Enterprise in the first movie now she nags him for doing his job, a logical Vulcan would not tolerate such an annoying highly emotional individual. Why aren't women taken seriously in the movie ? no women wear ranks but they walk around in skirts in go go boots, REALLY ? 


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

1trekwars1

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Jul. 07 2013, 8:52 am

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Jul. 06 2013, 11:38 am

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 05 2013, 3:56 am

>

>

>you can connect a charcater like uhura to star wars beause star wars has a different demogrpahic. star wars  is  a franchise that is for everyone  who is anyone. star wars is not a franhise like TOS  whcih is made up of white males and slash fan girls. If uhura was a star wars character there will be more room for aceptance of her.

>
Just look at the sexism from the first post,  please since when did uhura drool over Spock? it is quite clear that the orginal comment on this board did not watch the film propeply. people only  drool over another person when they have a crush on the person but are too shy to ask them out.last I watched both 2 films that was not the nature of the S/U relationship.

>

It's not a sexist comment, but an observation, JJ Abrams ruined Star Trek, The Spock /Uhura relationship makes no sense, and the "nature" of that relationship is Uhura bossing Spock around and nagging him, she nag him to get on the Enterprise in the first movie now she nags him for doing his job, a logical Vulcan would not tolerate such an annoying highly emotional individual. Why aren't women taken seriously in the movie ? no women wear ranks but they walk around in skirts in go go boots, REALLY ? 


 


LMAO, Kind of laughing now. Seriously dude what are you smoking? What did you even observe?



Did you even watch the film. It is clear again that your hate and bias has kept you from reasoning correctly and yes you are SEXIST very very SEXIST.



Uhura did not boss anyone around.  Spock put her on the wrong ship. She was just standing up for herself. Hey, let me ask you, why aren’t you so upset about what spock did?  He put her in a ship that was beneath her and she rightfully demanded she be put on the right ship based on her ACADEMIC ACEHEIVMENT.



I repeat her ACADMEIC ACHIEVMENT. She was the top of her class.



How is that been bossy and nagging? 



I guess if you are in school  and a teacher gives you a failing F grade you will just accept it when you know that your work was a sold A.



As for the romantic aspect, I will lay this one down for people to choose and decide if they like it or not. However it is silly to say it makes no sense when you base it  on three factors.



1. It’s an alternate universe
2. Spock 2009 is not TOS Spock
3. its star trek (anything can happen)


Spock (2009)  is young, he  cannot really control his emotions. He met a cute girl aka Uhura at the academy who became his friend and from there things got romantic. Saying this does not make sense is silly. It makes so much sense because at the end of the day. its is just  a man and a woman who develop feelings for one another. That is the way nature is.  Spock is suppose to control his emtoions not pretend he doesnt have emotions.



How can you even say it makes no sense when Spock has a human mother?



Also again you bring up Nurse Chapel. Chapel hooking up with Spock will have been very cool. However it did not happen in this timeline. Maybe in another timeline it did.


 


Consider this. In TNG, Worf visited numerous alternate universes, he and Deanna Troi were married and had kids in one of th ueniverse he was in. However in the main timeline it is Troi and Riker who were married.


There are infinite numbers of parallel universes in star trek and it is very possible that every versions of  Spock that exsited in this universes married all the  women that crossed his part . Chapel, Tpring, Leia, Zarabeth...the list goes on.



So your logic about the relationship not making sense is flawed.


You also say that a logical Vulcan would not  accept a woman been bossy and nagging when in reality Spock's mum was bossy and nagging to Spock’s dad who was a FULL VULCAN. Spock is half human and has been around humans for most of his life.  May I also add that what uhura said about spock was true. Kirk also agreed with uhura’s point of view about spock not caring for his life.


Let me ask you again. Why didnt you consider  Kirk as   been  nagging and been bossy when Kirk was complaining about spock and insulting him on the lift in front of  uhura. Kirk was basically nagging uhura about her ''boyfriend''.You are cool with that but then uhura does the same thing you complain.



Lastly what do you mean by women not been  taking seriously? The only thing that was wrong with the way women were treated in STiD was the carol strip scene. A scene which Orci has apologised for.


When I  watched  STiD, I noticed  aka (OBSERVED)  a few things.



1. Kirk took uhura seriously after she asked him to speak to klingons.



2.  Khan took uhura  seriously when she shot him 3 times



3. Admiral Marcus took carol seriously when she begged him to spare the life of the crew of enterprise.



4.  Spock took carol seriously when she said she was the new first officer. Spock even commended her academic achievement. ...Carol does have a PHD and she also saved Mccoy's life just like Uhura saved Spock's life.


How can you still blindly bash the women in the film.


Lastly JJ did not ruin Trek but don’t worry I won't rant on this, I will let the critical reception ( Rotten Tomatoes, Metacrtic, and the Oscars)  and also commercial success do the talking on that.



If you hate jj's Trek...Watch TOS only , It is that simple.


 


May I also add there is nothing wrong with women wearing short dresses and boots. Its a fashion style that has been around forever


 


Its not like uhura and carol are wearing HOT PANTS.


 


Dude you really need to think before you talk.


 


 


 

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Jul. 08 2013, 1:27 am

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 07 2013, 8:52 am

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Jul. 06 2013, 11:38 am

Quote: 1trekwars1 @ Jul. 05 2013, 3:56 am

>

>

>

>you can connect a charcater like uhura to star wars beause star wars has a different demogrpahic. star wars  is  a franchise that is for everyone  who is anyone. star wars is not a franhise like TOS  whcih is made up of white males and slash fan girls. If uhura was a star wars character there will be more room for aceptance of her.

>
Just look at the sexism from the first post,  please since when did uhura drool over Spock? it is quite clear that the orginal comment on this board did not watch the film propeply. people only  drool over another person when they have a crush on the person but are too shy to ask them out.last I watched both 2 films that was not the nature of the S/U relationship.

>

It's not a sexist comment, but an observation, JJ Abrams ruined Star Trek, The Spock /Uhura relationship makes no sense, and the "nature" of that relationship is Uhura bossing Spock around and nagging him, she nag him to get on the Enterprise in the first movie now she nags him for doing his job, a logical Vulcan would not tolerate such an annoying highly emotional individual. Why aren't women taken seriously in the movie ? no women wear ranks but they walk around in skirts in go go boots, REALLY ? 

 

LMAO, Kind of laughing now. Seriously dude what are you smoking? What did you even observe?


Did you even watch the film. It is clear again that your hate and bias has kept you from reasoning correctly and yes you are SEXIST very very SEXIST.


Uhura did not boss anyone around.  Spock put her on the wrong ship. She was just standing up for herself. Hey, let me ask you, why aren’t you so upset about what spock did?  He put her in a ship that was beneath her and she rightfully demanded she be put on the right ship based on her ACADEMIC ACEHEIVMENT.


I repeat her ACADMEIC ACHIEVMENT. She was the top of her class.


How is that been bossy and nagging? 


I guess if you are in school  and a teacher gives you a failing F grade you will just accept it when you know that your work was a sold A.


As for the romantic aspect, I will lay this one down for people to choose and decide if they like it or not. However it is silly to say it makes no sense when you base it  on three factors.


1. It’s an alternate universe
2. Spock 2009 is not TOS Spock
3. its star trek (anything can happen)

Spock (2009)  is young, he  cannot really control his emotions. He met a cute girl aka Uhura at the academy who became his friend and from there things got romantic. Saying this does not make sense is silly. It makes so much sense because at the end of the day. its is just  a man and a woman who develop feelings for one another. That is the way nature is.  Spock is suppose to control his emtoions not pretend he doesnt have emotions.


How can you even say it makes no sense when Spock has a human mother?


Also again you bring up Nurse Chapel. Chapel hooking up with Spock will have been very cool. However it did not happen in this timeline. Maybe in another timeline it did.

 

Consider this. In TNG, Worf visited numerous alternate universes, he and Deanna Troi were married and had kids in one of th ueniverse he was in. However in the main timeline it is Troi and Riker who were married.

There are infinite numbers of parallel universes in star trek and it is very possible that every versions of  Spock that exsited in this universes married all the  women that crossed his part . Chapel, Tpring, Leia, Zarabeth...the list goes on.


So your logic about the relationship not making sense is flawed.

You also say that a logical Vulcan would not  accept a woman been bossy and nagging when in reality Spock's mum was bossy and nagging to Spock’s dad who was a FULL VULCAN. Spock is half human and has been around humans for most of his life.  May I also add that what uhura said about spock was true. Kirk also agreed with uhura’s point of view about spock not caring for his life.

Let me ask you again. Why didnt you consider  Kirk as   been  nagging and been bossy when Kirk was complaining about spock and insulting him on the lift in front of  uhura. Kirk was basically nagging uhura about her ''boyfriend''.You are cool with that but then uhura does the same thing you complain.


Lastly what do you mean by women not been  taking seriously? The only thing that was wrong with the way women were treated in STiD was the carol strip scene. A scene which Orci has apologised for.

When I  watched  STiD, I noticed  aka (OBSERVED)  a few things.


1. Kirk took uhura seriously after she asked him to speak to klingons.


2.  Khan took uhura  seriously when she shot him 3 times


3. Admiral Marcus took carol seriously when she begged him to spare the life of the crew of enterprise.


4.  Spock took carol seriously when she said she was the new first officer. Spock even commended her academic achievement. ...Carol does have a PHD and she also saved Mccoy's life just like Uhura saved Spock's life.

How can you still blindly bash the women in the film.

Lastly JJ did not ruin Trek but don’t worry I won't rant on this, I will let the critical reception ( Rotten Tomatoes, Metacrtic, and the Oscars)  and also commercial success do the talking on that.


If you hate jj's Trek...Watch TOS only , It is that simple.

 

May I also add there is nothing wrong with women wearing short dresses and boots. Its a fashion style that has been around forever

 

Its not like uhura and carol are wearing HOT PANTS.

 

Dude you really need to think before you talk.

 

 

 


Look, friend, you've brought up some good points, are you female or male ? look, I love women, as complicated as they are, and I'm not bashing them in the movie just making an "observation".but in JJ Abrams movie, it's a mans world..Women are taken seriously you say, really ? so why don't any of them wear ranks ? the men do, how are we suppose to know who's an officer if they don't wear their ranks  ?


Kirk in the movie is a total incompetent loser in the movie,his nagging also made no sense, you wanna see the real Kirk or a real captain ? check out Shatner in TOS, first season..


Look, love is a beautiful thing, But some of us what to see Spock be Spock not some emotional drone that has no purpose, and if he's always following regulations he has to know that carrying on a love affair with one of his subordinates, is not following only regs but it's based on emotion, why would a Vulcan (no matter how young he is) embrace human emotions more than logic, Spock was always the cool one, when everyone else was losing it Spock had all the answers, Spock has a human mother but he is devoted to the Vulcan way of life, at least TOS Spock was, the Spock in Abrams movie don't have a clue ..


People are different in alternate universes, but they are also still the same characte..As for the short dresses with no ranks ? well The Next Generation corrected that mistake


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 08 2013, 1:48 pm

I'm on trekwars side here.  Trekwars did a great job arguing all the points in question.

Nanomite

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 54

Report this Jul. 08 2013, 2:41 pm

...one good thing out of all of this...it can only get better...

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