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Should Tuvok have been first officer?

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 03 2013, 5:50 am

Quote: Vulcan merchant @ Jul. 02 2013, 5:47 pm

>

>Well willowtree, like I said, it was crearly stated in the series. The first few seasons are mainly about the discord between both crews, aren´t they? (I am actually not asking) We do not need to speculate what good it would have done for the Maquis to rebell, but throughout the first seasons there was a constant dialogue between former Maquis and their leader Chakotay about why they should bow to a federation leadership. Seska, having her own plans, helped a lot to keep that sentiment alive. Torres also helped keeping this negative sentiment alive before becoming chief engineer.

>


the first two seasons are not "mainly about he discord between both crews" not at all. There is a mention here and there in the first season. But by the end of the first season they're all getting along and working together, with the exception of the three maquis that Tuvok singled out who needed to be brushed up on the starfleet rules and regulations


Torres became cheif engineer in the second episode, so I don't know what you're talking about with her keeping negative sentiment alive.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jul. 03 2013, 9:57 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 25 2013, 8:56 am

>

>the only mention of a mutiny was a holodeck program

>
Actually, there was a mention of it in Parallax, but Chakotay put a stop to it quickly.

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 05 2013, 5:04 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 03 2013, 9:57 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 25 2013, 8:56 am

>

>

>the only mention of a mutiny was a holodeck program

>
Actually, there was a mention of it in Parallax, but Chakotay put a stop to it quickly.


I wouldn't really call that talk of mutiny, it was one guy saying  "In case you want to take control of the ship, you have our full support" and then chakotay got pissed off. He wasn't saying hey lets take over the ship, or anything

starfan97

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POSTS: 235

Report this Jul. 06 2013, 12:00 pm

I think it was neccesasary for Chakotay to be the first officer because of the tensions between the Maquis and Starfleet. Putting Chakotay as first officer gave the Maquis say in what went on around the ship and made them feel more secure. It helped unite the two very different groups. 


Chakotay was a boring character in my opinion. Well, they started out good in the first two seasons, but then I felt like they forgot about him. They develpoed the character of Tuvok pretty well. But I feel that Chakotay was neccesary to be the first officer.

Vulcan merchant

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Report this Jul. 08 2013, 3:54 pm

"Mainly" may have been an exageration, but it is one of the mainthemes. Now the question why Chakotay and not Tuvok I think has been answered to a satisfactory mean.

Utopia Planetia

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Report this Jul. 27 2013, 10:35 am

[quote]


Still, the show leaves no doubt about that the fusion of the two crews demanded that both leaders be part of the top hierarchy in order to prevent any uprising and to ironing out any differencies that may come up.


[/quote]


Now that you mention it, it's kind of interesting, but Janeway, Tuvok, and Kim were actually the only starfleet people in the senior staff. Chakotay and Torres were maquis, Paris was a criminal, Neelix was a tag-along, and the doctor was a computer program.


Also, speaking of Tuvok and Chakotay (and not to hijack your thread), anyone else find Chakotay's never-ending hostility toward Tuvok obnoxious and gross? Chakotay's excuse for it was Tuvok spied on him. But in the first episode, Chakotay said Paris deserved disdain more than Tuvok because Tuvok was a member of star fleet and so had an interest in working against the maquis whereas Paris had no defensible interest.


I think the writers treated Tuvok poorly in general.

klwilbur

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Report this Jul. 27 2013, 5:47 pm

I always thought they tried to use Chipotle (that is what my wife calls him) as a shade of Riker...kind of a big brother and not a hard authority figure...someone who is a buffer to the Captain.  Like you can tell Chakotay what you want (but can't tell the Captain).  Obviously, you couldn't use Tupac (that is what my wife calls him) for that type of role.

beccajay20

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Report this Aug. 28 2013, 12:03 pm

i think that if tuvok had been made first officer it would have been a little too much like TOS. I absolutely love TOS but i also appreciated the gaining of trust between two people who were forced together and had to make the best of a very tough situation. I actually thinkthat tuvok did not want to be first officer but that he felt his place was protecting the ship

jonathan.polacek

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Report this Dec. 04 2013, 1:23 pm

Tuvok is a good officer just like Spock was a hundred years ago, but unlike Spock, he does not "gamble" when he's in charge of a mission unless Neelix is stuck with him. Tuvok is a good aviser to Capt. Janeway but he just sees things logically, never mixing it with a little emotion. No i think Tuvok was good in position as 2nd officer/Security chief.


J.L.P

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 07 2013, 4:59 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 24 2013, 3:07 pm

>

>They needed to put the Maquis commander in a command position to assure the Maquis they'd be treated fairly. Without Chakotay in that position, there would have been attempts to take over the ship.  

>


That's a good point.


I would also add that it seems Tuvok was a better Security Officer than Chakotay would have been.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

QuantumMath

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Report this Jan. 01 2014, 12:08 pm

I think it would have been illogical because they were having enough trouble at the start keeping the crew together, without a imbalance in the command structure. While they were traveling through the delta quadrant, it was logical to have Chakotay as first officer. In the alfa quadrant, however, tuvok would have been the logical choice


Lets make sure history never forgets the name... Enterprise

starfan97

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Report this Jan. 05 2014, 7:23 pm

Technically, yes, Tuvok should have been first officer, but I believe that Chakotay needed to become first officer in order to prove to the Maquis that Jneway trusted them and was willing to work together with them. It blended them together in a way that Tuvok just couldn't have done. Giving Chakotay the command showed the Maquis that Janeway knwe they were on the same boat and believed that if they worked together, they would get home faster. To see a Maquis and a Starfleet officer working together set an example for the crew. Tuvok would not have been able to do that. 

beccajay20

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Report this Jan. 14 2014, 11:17 am

I just finished voyager and I honestly think that chakotay was defintely a great choice for first officer. I did not really like him at first, i found him to be proud and arrogant and self centered. But honestly, what would he have done otherwise, he was already the captian of his maquis ship. and having him as second officer probably made it easier for him to help lead his crew into joining janeways crew. I also like chakotay better because I do not believe that tuvok would have been a very interesting first officer.

Captan_jean_luc_picard_1A

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Report this Jan. 15 2014, 10:45 am

Quote: chator56 @ Jun. 24 2013, 2:07 pm

>

>I didn't really care much for Chakotay on VOYAGER, he was bland. I didn't really buy into the Janeway/Chakotay relationship. If Janeway had made Tuvok first officer, I think it would have been a more interesting show, more like TOS. I think Security might have been a better role for the hot-headed Chakotay. I don't think command suited him at all. He didn't really exhibit any leadership qualities.

>


 


Wow.  I guess everyone doubts each factor of Trek eventually.  Anyway, he was bland whenever they got up close, but in a distant way he wasn't bland on casual appearance.  I think they could have maybe casted his part a bit better, but they stuck to LA Grafs novel and kept his personality to the book.  In a S2 episode, when Chalkotay and Jainway are infected and Tuvok as a stand alone commander sets course for the alpha quadrent, he is unable to consider the ramifications of all aspects of his crews welfare.  True it would be a hard situation, no doubt.  But I feel he could have done a better job.  As for the Makais court martail I totally agree.  Federation law provides that the people who have homes along the Cardassion Boarder are a freedom of choice.  they have laws about non-interferiance of culture.  Now, they cannot force them to abanden there homes.  And the cardassions have the right to evict them from there space.  But the Federation, Starfleet spacifically aided this.  The people who joined resigned from Star Fleet, and moved to another group of people.  The Makias another words were a living thriving culture.  Now, as for stealing ships that is a hostile act.  They cannot court martail other races or groups as indivisuals, but treat the issue with the Goverment.  There force to participate in creating this demitilerizing zone has to be some mishap in the agreement.  Another words, those who participated should have been court martialed and the peace treaty with Cardassions Annulled.  Thruthfully, this makes Star Fleet a band of mercinaries.  Lowering themselves slightly to the Cardiassion level.  Stuff we got going on today.  Continously ignoring things like kidnapping there Federation Captains.  I think the war should have continued until the Federation or the Kingon's defeated the Cardassions.  LOL.  The Klingons have strange laws, but they abide by them.  The Cardassions sign a peace treaty and kidnap members from there new allies.  Picard's sufferage is that the Borg are worse than the acts on Cardassia.  Well to me there both worse.  LOL.

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