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Defiant

duskh

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 05 2013, 8:32 am

I am rewatching the whole series.  I am on season 4, noticed that when the Defiant goes out on missions, the whole Senior Staff goes with them.    It always seemed to me that some of the Senior Staff should have stayed behind and ran things on DS9.  I also noticed that ever since Worf came aboard DS9 he took command when Sisko was off the bridge, I would have thought that if Kira did go with them, then as 1st officer she would take command.  Why would Worf take charge?  Is it just because he was in Starfleet, and she wasn't?  That seemed kind of racist, did Starfleet not trust her? 

Holo

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POSTS: 253

Report this Jun. 05 2013, 10:21 am

The Defiant (a Starfleet vessel) had a different command structure from DS9 (a Bajoran station administered by Starfleet). Worf was actually the first officer of the Defiant. Eddington was the security officer, not Odo. Kira did act as First Officer from time to time, but she was not officially part of the Defiant's crew.

duskh

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 05 2013, 12:40 pm

Quote: Holo @ Jun. 05 2013, 10:21 am

>

>The Defiant (a Starfleet vessel) had a different command structure from DS9 (a Bajoran station administered by Starfleet). Worf was actually the first officer of the Defiant. Eddington was the security officer, not Odo. Kira did act as First Officer from time to time, but she was not officially part of the Defiant's crew.

>


 


I figured as much, accepr it seemed odd that the entire Senior Staff was there when the Defiant went out on missions/patrol.  If Kira wasn't 1st Officer on the Defiant, woudn't she stay behind to rum things on DS9, in case something went wrong in Sisko's abscence?  It just  seems odd

crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 2:56 pm

It's not so very odd. It must be really difficult to entrust anything to a Bajoran on a regular basis. Their sad tendency towards treason, backstabbing, terrorism, religious violence, and their view that non-Bajoran lives are intrinsically less valuable makes it difficult to consider them reliable. Kira is a known ex-terrorist and even attempted to violate the coherency of her universe's timeline for petty vindictive vengeance. I would have difficulty putting her in charge of a swimming pool.

Ethics are arbitrary.

Utopia Planetia

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POSTS: 88

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 5:52 pm

Trying to find an internal logic for this or that element of star trek series is sometimes fun for us fans of the show, but you'll just twist yourself into pretzels. Because the real reason Kira and Worf did this or that job is that the writers wanted the presence of given characters to highlight this or that storytelling element at given plot points. At various points, nearly all the recurring characters acted as temporary members of the defiant crew because some storyline implicated them: Garack acted as a defiant bridge officer in latter seasons as Cardassia became more and more central to the story. When trade was implicated, Quark was asked to join the crew, and his agreements with the Karama were central to the plot: Sisko used Quark's relationships to find the dominion and to maintain a federation presence in the gamma quadrant. Both Nog and Jake joined the crew to allow the writers to tell stories about children becoming adults, -- Nog as a bridge officer, and Jake as a writer, -- and stories about their parents' efforts to balance family life with work. That was the whole motive for including Quark on the defiant's AR 558 mission -- not to mention his greek chorus role in narrating the producers' 'Gene Roddenberry's utopia isn't so utopian' obsession.


I take your larger point that the internal logic isn't always consistent and rigorously applied. It's a distraction. But that just serves to point up the producers' real intentions with those elements: to tell the stories they wanted to tell, and to develop the star trek mythology only to the extent neccessary to tell their stories effectively.

duskh

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 7:52 pm

Quote: crellmoset @ Jun. 06 2013, 2:56 pm

>It's not so very odd. It must be really difficult to entrust anything to a Bajoran on a regular basis. Their sad tendency towards treason, backstabbing, terrorism, religious violence, and their view that non-Bajoran lives are intrinsically less valuable makes it difficult to consider them reliable. Kira is a known ex-terrorist and even attempted to violate the coherency of her universe's timeline for petty vindictive vengeance. I would have difficulty putting her in charge of a swimming pool.


 


By your logic, if she can't be trusted, then maybe she shouldn't be on your Senior Staff, much less your first officer.  If the only reason she's being kept around is to keep an eye on her, then you can keep her in OPS, but not such a high ranking official on a station that, as you just admitted is Bajoran.  There are plently of non senior staff in OPS—I'm sure.


 


I'm sure you don't trust Odo either, however, he's made chief of security, he is also a Changeling.  His people started a war with the entire Alpha quadrent. 

duskh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 8:18 pm

Quote: Utopia Planetia @ Jun. 06 2013, 5:52 pm

>

>Trying to find an internal logic for this or that element of star trek series is sometimes fun for us fans of the show, but you'll just twist yourself into pretzels. Because the real reason Kira and Worf did this or that job is that the writers wanted the presence of given characters to highlight this or that storytelling element at given plot points. At various points, nearly all the recurring characters acted as temporary members of the defiant crew because some storyline implicated them: Garack acted as a defiant bridge officer in latter seasons as Cardassia became more and more central to the story. When trade was implicated, Quark was asked to join the crew, and his agreements with the Karama were central to the plot: Sisko used Quark's relationships to find the dominion and to maintain a federation presence in the gamma quadrant. Both Nog and Jake joined the crew to allow the writers to tell stories about children becoming adults, -- Nog as a bridge officer, and Jake as a writer, -- and stories about their parents' efforts to balance family life with work. That was the whole motive for including Quark on the defiant's AR 558 mission -- not to mention his greek chorus role in narrating the producers' 'Gene Roddenberry's utopia isn't so utopian' obsession.

>I take your larger point that the internal logic isn't always consistent and rigorously applied. It's a distraction. But that just serves to point up the producers' real intentions with those elements: to tell the stories they wanted to tell, and to develop the star trek mythology only to the extent neccessary to tell their stories effectively.

>


 


Now you sound like my uncle:


  "Why'd they do that?" 


"Simple, because, it's in the script"


Kind of takes the imagination, and intrigue out of it when you boil things down to that level doesn't it?


As far as your comment about Quark being on the Defiant, he was never a bridge officer—much less a commanding officer—he was there to help on a "business negotiation".  The same could be said for Garak! 

crellmoset

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 116

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 8:19 pm

Odo is not an ex-terrorist. He has a relatively impeccable record. Kira is a known and unapologetic ex-terrorist who routinely takes out her inability to regulate her aggression on others through verbal abuse. Though the Bajorans are a pretty miserable people individuals were presented throughout the series that demonstrated a much more civilized demeanor. Surely a better candidate than Kira could be found without too much effort.

Ethics are arbitrary.

duskh

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 8:32 pm

Odo did, however, bow to the Cardassian's bidding during Occupation.  Kind of hypocritical isn't it.

crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this Jun. 06 2013, 8:40 pm

As you'll recall Odo did not play the part of slavemaster for any Cardassians. He investigated things which were officially against the law and tried to determine to the best of his ability who the actual guilty party was. The scene that displayed his interaction with Dukat concerning this job even cast Dukat in a positive light as Dukat told Odo that his superiors would be happy if he lined up and shot a dozen random Bajorans for the crimes committed on the station but he would rather not do that.

Ethics are arbitrary.

kunzkeith

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POSTS: 3

Report this Jun. 08 2013, 2:55 pm

 Worf requested to take command as battle officer Major Kira had no objectios . Sisko sould've been battelfield promoted to admirial. he ought to have been "commodore" Not "commander" from go. DS9 i would have Major Kira


command ops and Commodore/Admiral Sisko run the station. 


the warrior has spoken

duskh

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 08 2013, 3:18 pm

I don't remember Worf requesting the assignment.  I do remember him being promoted to "Strategic Officer". 


 


I am not sure I understand your logic regarding Sisko, though.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Jun. 08 2013, 3:35 pm

Quote: duskh @ Jun. 05 2013, 8:32 am

>

>I am rewatching the whole series.  I am on season 4, noticed that when the Defiant goes out on missions, the whole Senior Staff goes with them.    It always seemed to me that some of the Senior Staff should have stayed behind and ran things on DS9.  I also noticed that ever since Worf came aboard DS9 he took command when Sisko was off the bridge, I would have thought that if Kira did go with them, then as 1st officer she would take command.  Why would Worf take charge?  Is it just because he was in Starfleet, and she wasn't?  That seemed kind of racist, did Starfleet not trust her? 

>
it seemed raist to you?


 


that makes no sense becacuse starfleet is not a race.


also, in the next few seasons youll see Kira comman dsthe defient with Worf at tactical.


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crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this Jun. 08 2013, 4:07 pm

Kirk commands the Defiant? He's even trickier than was previously believed. I still think that Picard has him beat by being the Captain of the Romulan flagship for 2 years before anyone noticed.

Ethics are arbitrary.

kunzkeith

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3

Report this Jun. 08 2013, 5:16 pm

Quote: duskh @ Jun. 08 2013, 3:18 pm

>

>I don't remember Worf requesting the assignment.  I do remember him being promoted to "Strategic Officer". 

>I am not sure I understand your logic regarding Sisko, though.

>


Worf requested from both Sisko and Kira to move into The Defiant as "Battle Commander" Worfs reasons 'to matain readyness in case of an attack. request was denighed. from TOS Star Base commanders are given the courtsy title of 'Commadore' to avoid confusions with Star Ship 'Captains' .


the warrior has spoken

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