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He wasnt really Khan!!!

stovokor2000-A

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Report this May. 30 2013, 3:22 pm

Quote: wissa @ May. 30 2013, 3:09 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ May. 30 2013, 2:45 pm

Quote: bunkey @ May. 30 2013, 6:54 am

>

>

>3-200 before Terrell was born, Khan was floating in space. So if you're nitpicking, that line is an error in itself.
Interesting.  I never caught that.  It's clearly inconsistent with the idea from "Space Seed" that the Eugenics Wars occurred in the '90s.  Is it inconsistent with anything else in the movie itself, or was that movie trying to move away from the idea of the war(s) taking place in the '90s, which may have already seemed too close?  I can't remember off the top of my head if anyone mentions Khan as being from the '90s in Star Trek II.

well, clearly they can't go on pretending there were eugenics wars in the 90's.  

why not, its a work of fiction


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OtakuJo

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Report this May. 30 2013, 3:26 pm

Quote: KelisThePoet @ May. 30 2013, 2:45 pm

Quote: bunkey @ May. 30 2013, 6:54 am

>

>3-200 before Terrell was born, Khan was floating in space. So if you're nitpicking, that line is an error in itself.
Interesting.  I never caught that.  It's clearly inconsistent with the idea from "Space Seed" that the Eugenics Wars occurred in the '90s.


From Doctor Bashir I Presume:


"Two hundred years ago, we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing. And what did we get for our troubles? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings — a superhuman. Whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provided a firewall against such men. And it's my job to keep that firewall intact."


_________________________


It makes sense to obscure / contradict the date of the Eugenics Wars in later series and films.


The '60s saw the 1990s, understandably, as a distant future. Even growing up in the 1980s, we viewed the 21st century as some kind of sci-fi world. When DS9 first aired in the '90s, to have kept the original date of the Eugenics Wars would have left most viewers with a sense of bewilderment -- "Hang on, that's not happening! There's no world war three going on around us!" -- and now the 1990s is in our past.


So you switch around the date of the Eugenics Wars a bit. It doesn't do much to diminish the overall point of that particular backstory.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

bunkey

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Report this May. 30 2013, 3:31 pm

Quote: wissa @ May. 30 2013, 3:17 pm

>I don't know how they could expect anyone to take it seriously as sci fi when it's going off of events that should already be behind us.  That would be like tos pretending ww2 didn't happen.


Again, when TWOK was filmed, the Eugenics Wars era was not behind us.


 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

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Report this May. 30 2013, 3:38 pm

From Doctor Bashir I Presume:


"Two hundred years ago, we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing. And what did we get for our troubles? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings — a superhuman. Whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provided a firewall against such men. And it's my job to keep that firewall intact."


_________________________


It makes sense to obscure / contradict the date of the Eugenics Wars in later series and films.


The '60s saw the 1990s, understandably, as a distant future. Even growing up in the 1980s, we viewed the 21st century as some kind of sci-fi world. When DS9 first aired in the '90s, to have kept the original date of the Eugenics Wars would have left most viewers with a sense of bewilderment -- "Hang on, that's not happening! There's no world war three going on around us!" -- and now the 1990s is in our past.


So you switch around the date of the Eugenics Wars a bit. It doesn't do much to diminish the overall point of that particular backstory.


 


According to that, then the Eugenics Wars took place in the 22nd Century, during the ENT Era, which clearly didn't happen.  It's most likely a script error, just as Khan's line in TWOK was (which was mentioned in interviews).  I doubt they were trying to change the percieved time. They reconfirmed the original dates of the 90s in ENT.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

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Report this May. 30 2013, 3:45 pm

FYI as I said, it was a script error:


 


Both "Space Seed" and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan gave the dating of the Wars as the 1990s, but "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" was thought by some to have retconned that date with a reference to them having occurred two centuries prior to the events of that episode, placing the Wars in the mid-to-late 22nd century, which was inconsistent with Star Trek: First Contact. Episode writer Ronald D. Moore later admitted to having referred to the line from The Wrath of Khan, but accidentally forgot to account for the show being a century later.


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

DS9_FOREVER!

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Report this May. 30 2013, 5:45 pm

Quote: wissa @ May. 30 2013, 3:17 pm

>

>I don't know how they could expect anyone to take it seriously as sci fi when it's going off of events that should already be behind us.  That would be like tos pretending ww2 didn't happen.  

>


Star Trek isn't true SCI-FI anyways wissa.


But First Contact changed everything, right? 


I just found this great Star Trek MB!!  photo ac1685424929087bf1b7e7e0d734f861.jpg

saywise

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Report this May. 30 2013, 5:55 pm

Maybe in this p. c. world jj did not want the whole why is the indian guy (khan) the bad guy. i mean with all the terrorism and bad acts going on out there, which seems to be done by folks of middle eastern decent or south east asian decent, he wanted to avoid the whole deal. i mean he is selling this film world wide and there are many folks who can take a white villian but would get rather upset if they saw another portrayal of the big bad evil indian, muslim, or fill in the dark skinned baddie of your choice. i mean what if denzel washington played the roll it would be just another black bad guy. and he could have played the roll as well as anyone........just saying. or maybe he wasn't khan and thats the basis of the third film the true WRATH OF KHAN!!!!!

fireproof78

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Report this May. 30 2013, 7:57 pm

Quote: saywise @ May. 30 2013, 5:55 pm

>

>Maybe in this p. c. world jj did not want the whole why is the indian guy (khan) the bad guy. i mean with all the terrorism and bad acts going on out there, which seems to be done by folks of middle eastern decent or south east asian decent, he wanted to avoid the whole deal. i mean he is selling this film world wide and there are many folks who can take a white villian but would get rather upset if they saw another portrayal of the big bad evil indian, muslim, or fill in the dark skinned baddie of your choice. i mean what if denzel washington played the roll it would be just another black bad guy. and he could have played the roll as well as anyone........just saying. or maybe he wasn't khan and thats the basis of the third film the true WRATH OF KHAN!!!!!

>


I think this is closer to the truth. I'm disappointed that they didn't just make Harrison Harrison, but since they choose to pick a recognizable villain, and casting him as a terrorist, that is a lot of PC landmines to dodge, while still trying to comment on the real world problem of terrorism.


For pity sake, BSG got tones of flak for the New Caprica colony under Cylon rule having suicide bombings.


I respect them for their willingness to take on terrorism given the current political climate.


I think there is so much more to these movies than is given credit.

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