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He wasnt really Khan!!!

willowtree

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Report this May. 28 2013, 9:05 am

Troll agenda????


 


disliking the movie and being just as vocal about it as those who liked the movie doesn't make someone a troll

wissa

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Report this May. 28 2013, 9:09 am

I wasn't referring to you. 


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willowtree

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Report this May. 28 2013, 9:13 am

I know you weren't, but it seems that many people who post about disliking the movie are automatically labeled as trolls

fireproof78

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Report this May. 28 2013, 9:15 am

Good grief.


Is it possible to discuss a canon issue without it coming back to real world issues? I'm sorry, in another thread I agreed with the whitewashing if Cumberbatch was in fact Khan (haven't seen the movie so will weigh on that later).


Someone posts a possibility (one discussed in other forums before the movie came out) and we go back to racism. Joachim raises an interesting possibility rather than Noonien Sing. First of all, it wouldn't be dragging out an old villain. Secondly, it still allows for the genetic engineering plot and his superior abilities.


Seriously, I'm at the point of giving up. Real world issues are fine to discuss and all but it would be nice to discuss other things too. I'd settle for any of the commentary that was in Abrams' films.

ScottRobot

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Report this May. 28 2013, 10:46 am

So anyway... in terms of retconning, I think we've seen worse but the makers of these movies can claim a "been there, done that" attitude towards Khan now as I'm sure future film writers will steer clear of all things Khan and do something new with whatever limited screen time they get. "New" to them and this timeline, not necessarily the franchise.  


This will be the stuff of fanfic unless we get a new series of books set after these movies. We won't get a TV show and it would be too heavy for the comics to tackle. It would be interesting if a comic arc involved the awakening of one or a few Khan disciples who can cause trouble for a little while. There could even be an "I am Spartacus" moment where they all claim to be Khan. 

bunkey

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Report this May. 28 2013, 11:21 am

This issue is relevant to the real world issue.  It's subject is the retconning of Khan to explain why he was white.  That doesn't make me a troll. It makes me someone who will not sit silent while scenarios for sweeping it under the rug is discussed.  Khan being white is forever a real world issue.  When you discuss retconning, it's reconciling racism in your own headcanon.  Especially when people say "they don't care" why he was white and are willing to just accept it.  THEN I speak up.


 

wissa

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Report this May. 28 2013, 12:23 pm

Quote: willowtree @ May. 28 2013, 9:13 am

>

>I know you weren't, but it seems that many people who post about disliking the movie are automatically labeled as trolls

>


I have no problem with people who don't like the movie.  I find it kind of irritating how determined they are to make sure no one else likes it, but whatever.  Not like I havn't seen that before on these boards. 


What I'm referring to as trolling is the insisitance of certain posters that every single thread be about them and their favourite complaints.  No matter what the topic it ends up being about her.  Very telling. 


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starfan97

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Report this May. 28 2013, 12:58 pm

Hmm. They probably did that because other people who hadnt seen Star trek before wouldn't know who that is. Theye probably heard of Khan. JJ wanted to make this movie appealing to fans and non fans of Star trek. 

2takesfrakes

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Report this May. 28 2013, 3:03 pm

Had Benedict Cumberbatch gotten himself a good tan,
or was caked in tan make-up, with a black wig, would
this have, somehow, alleviated any racial concerns,
in keeping the character "consistant," visually?


As for his "whitewashing," I remember being told, before
ST09 even came out, that all STAR TREK characters were up 
for grabs, to be used and reimagined, as deemed necessary ...


bunkey

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Report this May. 28 2013, 3:13 pm

[quote]Had Benedict Cumberbatch gotten himself a good tan,


or was caked in tan make-up, with a black wig, would


this have, somehow, alleviated any racial concerns,


in keeping the character "consistant," visually?[/quote]


You've pretty much described "brownface" which is much more offensive than whitewashing.


There were certain things they had to adhere to.  This was an alternate timeline, the timeline from TOS has veered into another direction.  This was not a complete "reimagining" like BSG (I doubt JJ Abrams is that brave OR creative). Uhura is still black, Chekov is still Russian and Sulu still Asian because they are in the same timeline that is altered.

2takesfrakes

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Report this May. 28 2013, 3:22 pm

I disagree with the "brownface" implication,
that this is somehow racist. Actors perform,
representing people that they are not. Nimoy
is Human. He can't ever be a Vulcan halfbreed.
But slav greenish makeup on him, and now he's
Spock. The "blackface" routine from around the
forties and earlier, yes, THAT was a racist skit.


BUT ... for a white actor to portray an Indian or
African American in a feature is part and parcel
of being a performer in that trade. It's acceptable.


Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this May. 28 2013, 3:24 pm

Who cares what his nationality was. What matters is that he was a good actor, and they decided that was more important than the color of his skin. If it makes you feel better, they tried to get Benicio del Toro but the deal fell through.


If you need an in-universe explanation, just assume he was surgically altered by S31. There, all better.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

bunkey

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Report this May. 28 2013, 3:36 pm

I would suggest you ask Indian actors or generally people of color how they feel about brownface. I'm sure you'd get a very different answer.


 


As for Del Toro, that was already discussed in another thread and it still would have been problematic.


It's not "all better"   whitewashing cannot be fixed by silly canon explanations.

morgonkara

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Report this May. 28 2013, 6:21 pm

Alternate time line, none of the characters in the new movie look like the originals

morgonkara

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Report this May. 28 2013, 6:23 pm

well...except for original timeline Spock.

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