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Boycotting Into Darkness does nothing but hurt the future of Star Trek

KelisThePoet

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POSTS: 636

Report this May. 31 2013, 8:56 pm

I don't think anyone should feel obligated to see a movie they don't think they'll like.  I've been a Star Wars fan since I was a kid, but I have no intention of going to the newest crop of Star Wars movies because I don't think I'll like them.


But there's a world of difference between choosing not to see a movie and "boycotting" a movie.  The latter implies a moral protest against an outrage to one's principles.  It implies not just that you're abstaining from something but that you're trying to damage it and pressure it into changing and push others away from it.


Falor was a prosperous merchant who went on a journey to gain greater awareness: Through storms he crossed the Voroth Sea/ To reach the clouded shores of Raal/ Where old T’Para offered truth./ He traveled through the windswept hills/ And crossed the barren Fire Plains/ To find the silent monks of Kir./ Still unfulfilled, he journeyed home/ Told stories of the lessons learned/ And gained true wisdom by the giving. – Falor’s Journey, “Innocence”

wissa

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Report this May. 31 2013, 9:56 pm

I boycotted all the tng movies.  I was pissed they tooka  perfectly good show off the air because they wanted us to pay to see it.  And by boycotting I just mean I waited till they were on video.  It wasn't really a big deal lol


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CmdrShran

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Report this Jun. 02 2013, 2:16 pm

I have only one thing to say about STD The Re re Wrath of Khan.....utter CRAP!

So many of you people here have drank the Kool Aid that Jar Jar Abrams and his cronies have provided! This "Star Trek" is devoid of anything that Gene Roddenberry set down as to what Star Trek is all about. I say this as a true old time Trekkie! I have been with Star Trek from the beginning back when TOS aired on NBC, I was one of the many who wrote in to save Star Trek after it was cancelled after its second season. I have been involved in Star Trek fandom ever since then. My last foray into saving Star Trek was when ENTERPRISE was cancelled. Now its gonna be"Deja Vu all over again" because I want to save the REAL STAR TREK. I am sad to see what has become of our beloved franchise, it has been dumbed down and Star Warsed up and in the hands of someone who has admitted that he does not and never has cared for Star Trek or its fanbase. Are all of you Trek fans blind or just desperate for something called Star Trek? Have you NOT noticed how this movie is NOT real Star Trek...dont let the little "winks" at the fans in these films fool you. Orzi and Kurtzman may know Trek but they are not showing that they UNDERSTAND Trek. Star Trek has ALWAYS been about the exploration of the Human Condition and the introspection of what makes us tick. I for the most part have nothing against the cast of the new films...they are talented and can pull this off, the problem is the story or lack thereof. Star Trek inspired people to become scientists,engineers,astronauts because of the vision that Trek gave us. Nu Trek so far has given us none of that inspiration. What we have here is eye candy dressed up as Star Trek and like most candy eventually does is rot your teeth (or in this case your mind). Don't let the Real Star Trek die....let Paramount know your feelings! Now the only place to go for real Star Trek is Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II or the new Star Trek Continues web series, Star Trek Lives there!

Kilrahi

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Report this Jun. 02 2013, 4:48 pm

I find it's future inspiring (so that tick is checked off) and I found the new movie did spend time on the human condition (i.e. why do friends do what friends do?).


Worked for me.  It didn't in 2009.  I feel for everyone who is still on that train, but I'm excited for the next one, and for the blu ray of this one. 

warp speed

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Report this Jun. 02 2013, 5:14 pm

Quote: Kilrahi @ Jun. 02 2013, 4:48 pm

>

>I find it's future inspiring (so that tick is checked off) and I found the new movie did spend time on the human condition (i.e. why do friends do what friends do?).

>Worked for me.  It didn't in 2009.  I feel for everyone who is still on that train, but I'm excited for the next one, and for the blu ray of this one. 

>


Sell, sell, sell. Keep pushing the redo but not everyone is buying it. If it was a great movie no one would have to push it because it would stand on it's own. Special effects or not a cheap copy of the original is still a copy. If they want to sell blu-rays they need to start with an original story instead of a redo.

Tin_Man

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Report this Jun. 02 2013, 6:14 pm

Wow it has been YEARS since I have posted in the boards on this site!


 


Well I got suckered into seeing Star Trek 09 in theatres way back when (against my better judgement), not this time if I see it one way or another I won't be paying to see it.


 


Anyway boycotting this movie is completely OK you should not see a movie just to keep a NAME going. If Star Trek in its current form die's out (which doesn't look like is going to happen with all the $$$ it is bringin in) then fine.


 


Why should anyone pay to see something they are not interested in just to keep a NAME going. If that thing you use to love has turned into something you now dislike, loath, despise hate etc why would you keep supporting it???


 


What are you some sort of abused wife in a bad relationship? If the thing you loved has turned on you don't hang around thinking you are going to change it JUST LEAVE! That's what I did.


 


Throwing more money at a regime you hate i.e. J J and company by paying to see their movies is not going to convince them to bring back the old stuff that wasn't making anywhere near the money the current crap is pulling in BTW.


 


So boycotting a movie franchise you dislike is completely fine!


 


On the bright side for us Prime Star Trek timeline fans:


 


Look at it this way I'm almost sure that at some point down the road some producer is going to convince the powers that be to let him or her pick up the PRIME Star Trek timeline and try and make money with it again. Hell Seth McFarland of Family Guy fame has said he would love to produce a Star Trek series which brings back the writing quality of the early 90's series’.


 


I don't know if he will get the chance (or should) but at some point maybe years from now the Prime Star Trek timeline will probably rise again.


 


 

Flanaess

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Report this Jun. 02 2013, 6:25 pm

It's the same with that 90's Lost in Space re-make, reimagined.

nozomashii

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Report this Jun. 02 2013, 7:24 pm

I am new to your forums, but I enjoyed watching the shows, though I didn't watch Enterprise at all.. just wasn't into the whole thing, but I love love love TNG even still and never missed an episode, and netflix it now.  I watched all the movies and loved the new one as well. They made me smile, laugh, cry and get pissed.. all things I enjoy in a good flick.. I took my GF to see them and she is so NOT a fan of ST... but she loved it as well.. We were at the edge of our seats almost the whole movie. I don't know why some people are angry, they (the shows) are all different from one another, and we don't have to like them all to be a Trek fan... but I guess we really can't please everyone... nor should we try

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Jun. 03 2013, 9:13 am



"So many of you people here have drank the Kool Aid that Jar Jar Abrams and his cronies have provided!"


Don't you think likening the folks who enjoyed ST09 and STID to the people who tragically died in Jonestown and Abrams to Rev. Jones is just a tiny bit extreme.  Speaking for myself, when I read analogies like this, I find it really hard to take the person who said it seriously.  I really wonder about them. 


"This "Star Trek" is devoid of anything that Gene Roddenberry set down as to what Star Trek is all about."


I don't think so.


"I say this as a true old time Trekkie!"


Ditto.


" I have been with Star Trek from the beginning back when TOS aired on NBC, I was one of the many who wrote in to save Star Trek after it was cancelled after its second season. I have been involved in Star Trek fandom ever since then. My last foray into saving Star Trek was when ENTERPRISE was cancelled. "


I didn't care for ENT.  I saw about 3 or 4 episodes the first season and just could not get into it.  I think I was just burned out on B & B's "ST" after VOY.  That said, I've never slammed fans of ENT like you just did to the folks who liked Abrams ST films (although I certainly did criticize ENT in the past).  


"Now its gonna be"Deja Vu all over again" because I want to save the REAL STAR TREK. I am sad to see what has become of our beloved franchise, it has been dumbed down and Star Warsed up and in the hands of someone who has admitted that he does not and never has cared for Star Trek or its fanbase."


Y'know, IMO you could just as well say that TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT weren't the "REAL STAR TREK" either, so I kind of agree with you there.  Abrams films certainly aren't ST = TOS imo.  That said, as a longtime TOS fan, I really did like ST09.  I felt they did a good job rebooting and resurrecting those more flawed TOS characters and some of the feel of TOS.  I really missed that after years of B&B, from TNG to VOY to (what I saw of it) ENT.  I just don't think B & B ever understood or appreciated TOS, which is not surprising, since, like Abrams, they were never fans either. 


And, honestly, I didn't mind Abrams bringing some of that SW rock and roll to ST.  I didn't think it overwhelmed the characters.  That said, I can definitely see that one of the strengths of TOS, perceived as a weakness by Abrams, was the fact that since it never had a big budget (except for TMP), they did have to rely more on the character drama and the story, which was pointed out by Shatner and Koenig and others.  So I do get why these Abrams films are not liked by some of the fans.


"Are all of you Trek fans blind or just desperate for something called Star Trek?"


Well, I'm certainly not desperate for something called ST.  I kind of jumped ship after season 6 of VOY (I finished up watching all the season 7 episodes on DVD later) and I never got into ENT.  That said, I did enjoy ST09 (I'm finally going to see STID tonight).  I hope there's another one.  And if that's it, fine.  With all the shows in syndication and all the films, I just think there's more than enough stuff in the franchise already.  I don't think any more is needed or required.  If there is more, hopefully it will be good.  If it isn't good, or it's something you just don't like or aren't interested in, don't watch it, like I didn't watch ENT.  Why waste your time and/or money on seeing something you aren't going to enjoy?  That's irrational. 


"Have you NOT noticed how this movie is NOT real Star Trek."


Like I said, I think it's as legitimate as TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT, which technically weren't "real Star Trek" either.  For me, "real Star Trek" was TOS, which has no subtitle.   


"..dont let the little "winks" at the fans in these films fool you."


Don't worry, I don't care much one way or another about the easter eggs that Orci, Kurtzmann, and Lindelof put in the script.


"Orzi and Kurtzman may know Trek but they are not showing that they UNDERSTAND Trek. "


Actually, from what I saw in ST09, I thought that Orci and Kurtzmann understood TOS better than Rick Berman and Brannon Braga ever did (and, interestingly enough, Orci's favorite part of the franchise was TNG). 


"Star Trek has ALWAYS been about the exploration of the Human Condition and the introspection of what makes us tick."


Character introspection?  I thought ST09 had that with the Kirk and Spock arcs.  Leonard Nimoy certainly thought so. 


"I for the most part have nothing against the cast of the new films...they are talented and can pull this off, the problem is the story or lack thereof."


Glad you liked the cast.  I thought they were mostly great.


"Star Trek inspired people to become scientists,engineers,astronauts because of the vision that Trek gave us."


It certainly inspired me to get a PhD in aerospace engineering.  I work on rocket and satellites problems now.   


"Nu Trek so far has given us none of that inspiration."


How can it? "Nu Trek" is two films, not a TV series.  And, in that regard, as noted by Ronald Moore and others, you simply aren't going to be able to do the range of stories you can do on television in the movies.   It's just not feasible, that's why most of the ST films have strong villains.  Honestly, if that's what you're looking for in a ST feature, you shouldn't be surprised.  By necessity, the types of stories they can do are going to be more limited. 


All that said, I do think it's possible to break outside that box.  Three of the ST films managed to do that, TMP, TVH, and, to an extent, TFF.  Note that only one of those was a success on both the critical and box office fronts, TVH, so it's obviously not an easy thing to pull-off in a ST film. 


" What we have here is eye candy dressed up as Star Trek and like most candy eventually does is rot your teeth (or in this case your mind)."


I disagree with you there.  As proof, I can say that my mind is working fine after ST09.  I'll let you know how it is after STID.


"Don't let the Real Star Trek die....let Paramount know your feelings!"


Ok.


 "Now the only place to go for real Star Trek is Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II or the new Star Trek Continues web series, Star Trek Lives there!"


I actually sat down and watched the first episode of ST Continues.  I have never ever been able to stand watching an entire episode of New Voyages/Phase II or any other ST production, mostly due to the horrible acting and sometimes weak budgets.  But I did really like ST Continues.  Actually, I loved it.  I credit Abrams' first ST film, ST09, with making me more amenable to seeing other actors in those classic roles, or, at least to give them a chance. 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 03 2013, 10:05 am

I think it would be impossible to make a movie that every trekkie will love, because we can't all agree on what we like. We all consider ourselves trekkies but we all have our favorite series, we all have our favorite movies, we all have our least favorite movies and we all have our least favorite series. If they made a new movie meant to specifialy please Trek fans what would be the best crew to use? Obviously there are limitations to TOS crew, TNG was very popular, but then you have people who liked DS9 and Voyage better who will be upset. You can make a DS9 movie, but then TNG, TOS and VOY fans will be upset. So I think it would be very difficult. Though personally I would rather have seen another TNG (or Riker on the Titan) movie than Trek09.


Though I will add that I do think that there is more long term profit in trying to please trekkies. Lots of money for Trek comes from things other than the movies. There are dvd sales, action figures, collectibles, conventions, costumes, etc. I doubt people who went to see te new movie with no previous trek experience before will be into all those things.

wissa

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Report this Jun. 03 2013, 10:54 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 03 2013, 10:05 am

>

>I think it would be impossible to make a movie that every trekkie will love, because we can't all agree on what we like. We all consider ourselves trekkies but we all have our favorite series, we all have our favorite movies, we all have our least favorite movies and we all have our least favorite series. If they made a new movie meant to specifialy please Trek fans what would be the best crew to use? Obviously there are limitations to TOS crew, TNG was very popular, but then you have people who liked DS9 and Voyage better who will be upset. You can make a DS9 movie, but then TNG, TOS and VOY fans will be upset. So I think it would be very difficult. Though personally I would rather have seen another TNG (or Riker on the Titan) movie than Trek09.

>Though I will add that I do think that there is more long term profit in trying to please trekkies. Lots of money for Trek comes from things other than the movies. There are dvd sales, action figures, collectibles, conventions, costumes, etc. I doubt people who went to see te new movie with no previous trek experience before will be into all those things.

>


I think you would be surprised.  There were lots of people wandering in here after star trek '09 who saw the movie and were curious about other trek.   My cable provider was offering all of tos on demand.  First time I'd ever seen them offer tv shows.  Even with this new movie they are offering all the star trek movies on demand.  I have to keep stopping my husband from renting one.  Nothing worse than renting something you already own.  :lol:


 


I agree you can never please everyone.  The hatred for this movie doesn't hold a candle to the Enterprise hate that was once on the boards. 


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captain saavik

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Report this Jun. 03 2013, 5:14 pm

Quote: willowtree @ May. 30 2013, 11:58 am

Quote: captain saavik @ May. 30 2013, 11:31 am

>

>

>Ok it is just plain dumb to not go and see this movie! I was not the biggest fan of the new Star Trek movie of 2009 but I went to see this one anyway because l love a good action flick. But for any self respecting Trekkie not go and see this movie saddens my heart! Into Darkness was a beautifully crafted film whether you like trek or not. We can no longer depend on our original movies to allow trek to continue to the next generation. If one can say they love trek but refuse to support the new influx of movies and other things i'm sorry but I would almost question how much you love this wonderous movement we all Star Trek. Star Wars, Doctor Who, and any other significant series is revamping and I am sure that some of their fans are resisting as well but all this does is harm the series they claim to love so much which inturn harms them.

>Ok I am off my soapbox now please no one take offense to this simply go SEE the movie and then you may critic anything you want so long as you have SEEN the movie. I trully do love you all simply because you love Star Trek, but please don't give up on at least experiencing this new age of Trek.  

>

sorry but this statement s dumb. If someone doesn't want to see the movie they don't have to see the movie and they shouldn't be called dumb for it.

 

let me ask you a question. Let's say someone didn't like the first Hunger Games movie. Then after seeing trailers and knowing the plot of the second movie and considering they didn' like the first one, they decide not to go to the second movie. Is that dumb?

Personally I have no intention of seeing the new movie  because I didn't like the first movie and based on that plus the trailers and what I know of the plot of the second movie I'm not going to go to the second movie. But despite the fact that I go to several conventions a year, wear handmade uniforms (well my husband wears them I make them) despite owning all the dvds, despite watching the different series all the time, despite having a room in my house devoted to Star Trek collectibles, despite giving our pets Trek names I'm not a self respecting Trekkie, nor do I even love Star Trek simply because I don't want to see a movie. Doesn't that sound silly?


Ma'am I am not calling anyone who does not want to see the new movie dumb and I am sorry if it read that ay. But I AM calling out te people telling other people whether it be trekkies or non trekkies not to see the movie simply because they did not like the 2009 movie. That does nothing but hurt the series that is attempting to rise for a new generation. I suggest people go see it to judge for themselves. It is fine if you or anyone else don't wish to see the 2013 movie I only have a problem when those people go around bashing and hating what they have not seen or they have only seen the trailers. You maybe a self respecting trekkie in your own right however this message was ment for those forcing their opinion on others.


jayson.deare

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6

Report this Jun. 03 2013, 7:10 pm

[quote]


[quote]


[quote]


Ok it is just plain dumb to not go and see this movie! I was not the biggest fan of the new Star Trek movie of 2009 but I went to see this one anyway because l love a good action flick. But for any self respecting Trekkie not go and see this movie saddens my heart! Into Darkness was a beautifully crafted film whether you like trek or not. We can no longer depend on our original movies to allow trek to continue to the next generation. If one can say they love trek but refuse to support the new influx of movies and other things i'm sorry but I would almost question how much you love this wonderous movement we all Star Trek. Star Wars, Doctor Who, and any other significant series is revamping and I am sure that some of their fans are resisting as well but all this does is harm the series they claim to love so much which inturn harms them.


Ok I am off my soapbox now please no one take offense to this simply go SEE the movie and then you may critic anything you want so long as you have SEEN the movie. I trully do love you all simply because you love Star Trek, but please don't give up on at least experiencing this new age of Trek.  


[/quote]


sorry but this statement s dumb. If someone doesn't want to see the movie they don't have to see the movie and they shouldn't be called dumb for it.


 


let me ask you a question. Let's say someone didn't like the first Hunger Games movie. Then after seeing trailers and knowing the plot of the second movie and considering they didn' like the first one, they decide not to go to the second movie. Is that dumb?


Personally I have no intention of seeing the new movie  because I didn't like the first movie and based on that plus the trailers and what I know of the plot of the second movie I'm not going to go to the second movie. But despite the fact that I go to several conventions a year, wear handmade uniforms (well my husband wears them I make them) despite owning all the dvds, despite watching the different series all the time, despite having a room in my house devoted to Star Trek collectibles, despite giving our pets Trek names I'm not a self respecting Trekkie, nor do I even love Star Trek simply because I don't want to see a movie. Doesn't that sound silly?


[/quote]


Ma'am I am not calling anyone who does not want to see the new movie dumb and I am sorry if it read that ay. But I AM calling out te people telling other people whether it be trekkies or non trekkies not to see the movie simply because they did not like the 2009 movie. That does nothing but hurt the series that is attempting to rise for a new generation. I suggest people go see it to judge for themselves. It is fine if you or anyone else don't wish to see the 2013 movie I only have a problem when those people go around bashing and hating what they have not seen or they have only seen the trailers. You maybe a self respecting trekkie in your own right however this message was ment for those forcing their opinion on others.


[/quote]


 


I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with your statement there. There is definitely a reasone to tell people to stay way from STID. And that is the craptastic writing that stretches the suspension of disbelief which I will lay on the shoulders of Hollywood's biggest hack and King of mumbo jumbo Damon Lindelof and if I ever had a chance at a convention I would go just to tell him that he is crap and seriously needs to take lessons on how to write his way out of the paper bag because he just seems to get lost in it.


First off I want to say I loved Star Trek 2009, bought it the collector's tin was there as soon as it hit blu-ray to make sure I got my special metal box edition. Did that movie have problems yes but they were fairly forgiveable in the fact that they were trying and mostly succeeded in telling a good story. Warp now looks like Hypersapce from Star Wars why, oh why but cool effect forgiveable. Wow it took them a short time to get to Vulcan but... Kirk was unconcious so you know what at least they made time pass so forgiveable. The one thing I absolutely hate about 09 is transwarp beaming for the love of GOD someone retcon it out of there destroy the equation memory wipe someone worst thing to ever be added to a the franchise that is the one thing that is unforgiveable. Beaming across the Galaxy ffs that's ridiculous.


Now when it came to Into Darkness I enjoyed probably about the fist 30 minutes or so, from the moment Pike died and Kirk was reinstated as Captain I could just feel the movie going down hill. Not even an attempt to depict the passage of time to travel across the Galaxy, Spock and Uhura relationship was completely juvenille and ridiculous way to much like Star Wars however without the pretext for the characters being like that etc.


I could make a long preachy post about all of the issues with STID but my main issue is with the fact I think Orci and Kurtzman came up with a solid story mirroring some of the societal issues of our times however Lindelof and Orci has stated this in his interview on this site decided to Shoehorn Kahn into the story and instead of having a story telling us about the terrors of the military industrial complex we have two villains neither with enough screen time or backstory that leaves us with a story telling mess similar to Spider Man 3 with the whole Venom fiasco that Sony forced on Raimi. Is STID as bad as Spider Man 3 no because the ensemble cast makes this watchable while Spider Man 3 has so much crap in it that it completely falls apart thanks to Studio interference. STID almost did but came out as a brainless seriously logically challenged action flick and frankly after 09 I was really hoping the team would tighten things up and that they would reach new heights with this one. So people have every right to say what they think if fans don't say something then we won't get the film that we all really want. 


What's that, something that appeals to new fans withough spitting in the face of the old ones and actually has a plot that wasn't created mearly to move from set peice to set peice and can tell a coherent story. Heck I think they should have used the doomsday machine what better representation of the milltary industrial complex and a story where all of the cast would have had time to shine sigh. Instead we even get a bit of a retread of 09, over the top villain for minimal reasons with a Giant Ship that can outmatch the Enterprise. Someone please take the milk out of the fridge because some of the ideas in STID are clearly past their expiry date.....

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 04 2013, 7:17 am

BOYCOTT!!!!! BOYCOTT!!!!!


 


fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this Jun. 04 2013, 8:02 am

Quote: wissa @ Jun. 03 2013, 10:54 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 03 2013, 10:05 am

>

>

>I think it would be impossible to make a movie that every trekkie will love, because we can't all agree on what we like. We all consider ourselves trekkies but we all have our favorite series, we all have our favorite movies, we all have our least favorite movies and we all have our least favorite series. If they made a new movie meant to specifialy please Trek fans what would be the best crew to use? Obviously there are limitations to TOS crew, TNG was very popular, but then you have people who liked DS9 and Voyage better who will be upset. You can make a DS9 movie, but then TNG, TOS and VOY fans will be upset. So I think it would be very difficult. Though personally I would rather have seen another TNG (or Riker on the Titan) movie than Trek09.

>Though I will add that I do think that there is more long term profit in trying to please trekkies. Lots of money for Trek comes from things other than the movies. There are dvd sales, action figures, collectibles, conventions, costumes, etc. I doubt people who went to see te new movie with no previous trek experience before will be into all those things.

>

I think you would be surprised.  There were lots of people wandering in here after star trek '09 who saw the movie and were curious about other trek.   My cable provider was offering all of tos on demand.  First time I'd ever seen them offer tv shows.  Even with this new movie they are offering all the star trek movies on demand.  I have to keep stopping my husband from renting one.  Nothing worse than renting something you already own.  :lol:

 

I agree you can never please everyone.  The hatred for this movie doesn't hold a candle to the Enterprise hate that was once on the boards. 


Really? Enterprise was hated? Say it isn't so!


In all seriousness, the fact that ENT hate was stronger almost worries me because Abrams ruffles a lot of feathers

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