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Boycotting Into Darkness does nothing but hurt the future of Star Trek

fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this May. 30 2013, 9:11 am

Quote: bunkey @ May. 30 2013, 7:40 am

>

>Well Star Trek News is of course going to spin it like that.  I prefer sites like Forbes that provide pure financial analysis.

>The TV deal was already known to have fallen through, partly due to reasons from article I previously posted about Abrams wanting to control merchandising. 

>CBS may realize just how valuable the TV rights are.  With STID underperforming and the divide among longtime fans, it's understandable why CBS may not want to hand over the reins to someone who can make pretty movies, but may not be able to deliver more meaty television.  The movie can bring in non-fans, but TV will rely more heavily on long time Trekkies to keep it afloat past a few episodes or through a weak start. TNG and DS9 both took some time to find their footing and it takes the loyalty of fans to get past stinkers like "Move Along Home" and "The Naked Now" that may turn off casual viewers.

>


Well, like I said, numbers can always be spun


I just prefer to draw from multiple sources and draw my own conclusions from there.


I honestly feel that CBS is not willing to do a TV series simply out of fear they will lose more money. I doubt that they have advetisers clamoring to support a new show either. I don't think it has much to do with Abrams as much as it has to do with fear of losing money like Enterprise did.


"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" is really a current business model given the uncertain econmic times. Again, a TV series is not a cheap venture, especially when you have to create a "proof of concept" first, then the pilot and then the premiere.

wissa

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POSTS: 4026

Report this May. 30 2013, 10:10 am

I really think that no network is going to gamble on a big budget sci fi series anytime soon.  It was barely feasable at the best of times and ad revenue has been going down for years.  The tv landscape has changed again over the last couple years with netflix and other sites gaining popularity 


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willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this May. 30 2013, 10:34 am

there might be some networks, for example SyFy had recent success with Battlestar Galactica and currently have a huge undertakin with a sci fi show video game tie in. I could see them taking on a new Trek series

Holo

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POSTS: 253

Report this May. 30 2013, 11:21 am

I would love a new series on SyFy or mabye a premium network. In many ways I think that would be preferrable to it being on one of the big networks, which have all been churning out absolute drivel for the past ten years or so.


And a smaller budget would force them to lean on good writing instead of mindless sfx.

captain saavik

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POSTS: 854

Report this May. 30 2013, 11:31 am

Ok it is just plain dumb to not go and see this movie! I was not the biggest fan of the new Star Trek movie of 2009 but I went to see this one anyway because l love a good action flick. But for any self respecting Trekkie not go and see this movie saddens my heart! Into Darkness was a beautifully crafted film whether you like trek or not. We can no longer depend on our original movies to allow trek to continue to the next generation. If one can say they love trek but refuse to support the new influx of movies and other things i'm sorry but I would almost question how much you love this wonderous movement we all Star Trek. Star Wars, Doctor Who, and any other significant series is revamping and I am sure that some of their fans are resisting as well but all this does is harm the series they claim to love so much which inturn harms them.


Ok I am off my soapbox now please no one take offense to this simply go SEE the movie and then you may critic anything you want so long as you have SEEN the movie. I trully do love you all simply because you love Star Trek, but please don't give up on at least experiencing this new age of Trek.  


willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this May. 30 2013, 11:58 am

Quote: captain saavik @ May. 30 2013, 11:31 am

>

>Ok it is just plain dumb to not go and see this movie! I was not the biggest fan of the new Star Trek movie of 2009 but I went to see this one anyway because l love a good action flick. But for any self respecting Trekkie not go and see this movie saddens my heart! Into Darkness was a beautifully crafted film whether you like trek or not. We can no longer depend on our original movies to allow trek to continue to the next generation. If one can say they love trek but refuse to support the new influx of movies and other things i'm sorry but I would almost question how much you love this wonderous movement we all Star Trek. Star Wars, Doctor Who, and any other significant series is revamping and I am sure that some of their fans are resisting as well but all this does is harm the series they claim to love so much which inturn harms them.

>Ok I am off my soapbox now please no one take offense to this simply go SEE the movie and then you may critic anything you want so long as you have SEEN the movie. I trully do love you all simply because you love Star Trek, but please don't give up on at least experiencing this new age of Trek.  

>


sorry but this statement s dumb. If someone doesn't want to see the movie they don't have to see the movie and they shouldn't be called dumb for it.


 


let me ask you a question. Let's say someone didn't like the first Hunger Games movie. Then after seeing trailers and knowing the plot of the second movie and considering they didn' like the first one, they decide not to go to the second movie. Is that dumb?


Personally I have no intention of seeing the new movie  because I didn't like the first movie and based on that plus the trailers and what I know of the plot of the second movie I'm not going to go to the second movie. But despite the fact that I go to several conventions a year, wear handmade uniforms (well my husband wears them I make them) despite owning all the dvds, despite watching the different series all the time, despite having a room in my house devoted to Star Trek collectibles, despite giving our pets Trek names I'm not a self respecting Trekkie, nor do I even love Star Trek simply because I don't want to see a movie. Doesn't that sound silly?

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 30 2013, 2:32 pm

Quote:

Well, like I said, numbers can always be spun


 


Numbers cannot be spun. I was refering to the analysis OF the numbers. But as I said before, numbers never lie.  1 + 1 is always 2. If you look at the numbers alone, STID is still under performing. No matter what you write about it, the numbers are still the same. 


I prefer Forbes or other financial publications as more neutral sources.  A Star Trek site is not going to give you unbiased commentary.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 30 2013, 3:40 pm

Numbers themselves maybe cannot be spun, but interpretations of numbers certainly can be (and misinterpreted.)


Comparing it to the highest grossing films of the year so far is one thing. But compared to many other films, and particularly to many Star Trek films, this most recent movie has done quite well. A flop in my view would be a loss for the studio.


Me personally I don't care how it does at the box-office. Enjoyed watching it. Everything else is incidental.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

He'sDeadJim6400

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POSTS: 113

Report this May. 30 2013, 4:10 pm

ER.. But, my dears, the film is a failure, it failed to meet Paramount expectations, it was #1 for a second then got beat by THE HANGOVER 3, for crying out loud, it continues to drop, maybe this is it, we probably won't see another JJ Abrams Trek movie...no...  


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 30 2013, 4:42 pm

I wouldn't call it a failure, but it's underperforming and not doing what Paramount expected.


There are many interpretations of numbers, but 5 will always be smaller than 8.  If Paramountt set goals and it doesn't meet them, no amount of spin will change that.

rtb2k6

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POSTS: 73

Report this May. 30 2013, 5:01 pm

All this bitchin about the film just makes youm look like fanatics who dont want change.if JJ hadn't been so radical and shook things up Star Trek would have died a death worse then Nemesis.If a movie dont make money its not gonna get a follow up its that simple.what you should be moaning about is that JJ is now concentrating on Star Wars and Trek can only suffer cause of it.

JoCat

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POSTS: 156

Report this May. 30 2013, 6:16 pm

I also went to the Into the Darkness movie and it was extremely good and I am so glad I went. It was fast paced, adventurous, and  being true to Star Trek nature, it told a good story. I am hoping to go to it again if I get the chance. I originally would not go to the new Star Trek movies because I felt the Star Trek franchise and Paramount Pictures had ignored other star trek actors (such as Voyage and Deep Space Nine) who had hopes of going to the big screen which never happened. Out of loyalty to them I wouldn't go the the new Star Trek movie several years ago. And it seems to be disloyal to the orignal seriers. But I finally did watch the Star Trek movie starring Chris Pine and the new new crew and really liked it. I liked it so well that I watched it 3 times in one weekend. There so much in the movie that you don't catch all the inside jokes and one liners phrases that are so funny.Also I now undersand the basic premise of the new Star Trek in that this new crew is living in an alternate reality so that the original star trek series as we know it remains intact. Therefore two realities of star trek are present.They are not trying to rewrite the Star Trek story as we know it (I had wondered about that). And since Ambassador Spook is able to travel into the alternate reality then I think so can some of our other favorite star trek characters whether it be deliberate or they accidentally fall through some sort of time/space portal. It will be interesting to see  what the Star Trek writers think of next. And hats off to the new crew both on set and off.  They are very talented

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this May. 31 2013, 9:07 am

Quote: captain saavik @ May. 30 2013, 11:31 am

>

>Ok it is just plain dumb to not go and see this movie! I was not the biggest fan of the new Star Trek movie of 2009 but I went to see this one anyway because l love a good action flick. But for any self respecting Trekkie not go and see this movie saddens my heart! Into Darkness was a beautifully crafted film whether you like trek or not. We can no longer depend on our original movies to allow trek to continue to the next generation. If one can say they love trek but refuse to support the new influx of movies and other things i'm sorry but I would almost question how much you love this wonderous movement we all Star Trek. Star Wars, Doctor Who, and any other significant series is revamping and I am sure that some of their fans are resisting as well but all this does is harm the series they claim to love so much which inturn harms them.

>Ok I am off my soapbox now please no one take offense to this simply go SEE the movie and then you may critic anything you want so long as you have SEEN the movie. I trully do love you all simply because you love Star Trek, but please don't give up on at least experiencing this new age of Trek.  

>


 


Sorry, Captain Saavik, but I'm with willowtree on this one.  As I said before, I don't blame any fan of prior entries in the franchise for not seeing STID, especially if they saw ST09 and didn't like it.  Why should they waste their hard-earned money and their precious time on something they know they'll most likely not like?  For my part, I'm going to see that movie THIS WEEK, if I can get the babysitting set up for the twins.  I'm sick of waiting!


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this May. 31 2013, 9:34 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ May. 30 2013, 3:40 pm

>

>Numbers themselves maybe cannot be spun, but interpretations of numbers certainly can be (and misinterpreted.)

>Comparing it to the highest grossing films of the year so far is one thing. But compared to many other films, and particularly to many Star Trek films, this most recent movie has done quite well. A flop in my view would be a loss for the studio.

>Me personally I don't care how it does at the box-office. Enjoyed watching it. Everything else is incidental.

>


Otaku Jo is right.  STID box office will keep climbing.  It will make a profit, most likely one large enough to justify a third film.  Apparently, from the Bob Orci interview, Paramount is already trying to line him and the others up for the third film, so that's apparently a done deal. 


WRT the franchise itself, which OtakuJo cited.  Here are the current critical review aggregate scores from rottentomatoes.com:


Ranking                  Title             Date                              Rating   


1                               ST09        2009                       95   Fresh


2                               FC           1996                        92   Fresh


3                              TWOK       1982                        91   Fresh 


4                              STID         2013                        87   Fresh


5                              TVH          1986                        84   Fresh


6                             TUC          1991                        83   Fresh


7                            TSFS          1984                        77   Fresh  


8                            INS            1998                        56   Rotten


9                           GEN           1994                        48   Rotten


10                         TMP            1979                       42   Rotten


11                         NEM            2002                       38   Rotten


12                        TFF             1989                        21   Rotten


So, STID is the 4th highest-reviewed film in the ST film franchise.  That implies that it will get generally good word of mouth and some staying power. 


WRT adjusted WW gross box-office (in 2013 dollars), I got this from box-office mojo:


Rank    Title                                                   Adjusted Gross               Release
1          Star Trek Par.                                     $274,311,200                 5/8/09
2          Star Trek: The Motion Picture               $260,212,000                 12/7/79
3          Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home           $229,227,500                 11/26/86
4          Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan           $213,118,700                 6/4/82
5          Star Trek III: The Search for Spock       $180,708,400                 6/1/84
6          Star Trek: First Contact                        $164,686,600                 11/22/96
7          Star Trek Into Darkness                       $162,193,900                 5/16/13
8          Star Trek: Generations                         $143,280,100                11/18/94
9          Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country $142,092,200                12/6/91
10        Star Trek: Insurrection                          $116,707,600               12/11/98
11        Star Trek V: The Final Frontier               $104,420,100                6/9/89
12        Star Trek: Nemesis                              $58,440,700                  12/13/02
TOTAL:                                                          $2,049,399,000


AVERAGE:                                                       $170,783,200


From the above data, the 3 films in the franchise that are definite failures are INS, FF, and NEM.  I still don't understand how INS got a better rt.com rating than TMP, NEM, and , heck, even GEN.  I'm with V'Ger on this film, I hate it.  It has all the worst excesses of TNG with none of what made that series great.  I really do think it's the worst of the TNG films imo, if not with the fans and the critics.  To me, it's in the gutter with TFF.  Both TFF and INS were big let-downs after the great films they followed, TVH and FC, respectively. Similarly, both films led to a reduction in the budget for their sequels, TUC and NEM.  TUC, was a critical success and made a good profit at the box office.  It probably would've done better if TFF hadn't been so horrible.  Similarly, I though NEM was decent.   It definitely wasn't good, but imo it deserved to do better than it did both critically and wrt box office.  Again, I think NEM was burned by INS as well as the last two series, VOY and ENT.  The fans didn't show up that first weekend (I did though).  They waited for the reviews and the word of mouth.  When that wasn't good, they just waited for the DVD. 


You can see why the TNG series ended after INS (the most expensive ST film to that time with the exception of TMP) and NEM's poor reviews and grosses.  Two duds in a row killed it.  Paramount would've done the same to the TOS films if TWOK had failed, most likely.


 


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 31 2013, 2:52 pm

Quote: rtb2k6 @ May. 30 2013, 5:01 pm

>

>All this bitchin about the film just makes youm look like fanatics who dont want change.

>


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