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Star Trek Into Darkness Reviews

Oracle Fefe

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POSTS: 1

Report this Jun. 02 2013, 6:56 pm

=Spoilers, obviously=


To be honest, I liked the movie. I really enjoyed everything in it from the intro to the reveal..Well, I guess not the part where Spock says "I do not believe that does qualify." in the escaping Bird-of-Prey part. It seems a bit out of character into a more pessimistic role.


 


However, two three things I absolutely wished is that:


-John Harrison was truely John Harrison. Everything about the movie could stay the same (Aside from the USS Botany Bay being found, and seeing it would have made an awesome after-credits scene), except that Harrison was from the Eugenics Wars and could signal an old war sparking anew within the new timeline. We barely found out much of the Eugenics Wars yet we're believed that it is practically the worst war humankind has ever seen. Well, what if it was brought back centuries later in a galactic scale? Harrison vs Khan would have been a fabulous debate..


 


-If that wasn't an option, then maybe throw in a little explanation for nuKhan's sudden change in appearance (Besides for the unfortunate implications.) I was thinking that Khan retained his normal looks, but the chamber somehow depleted or caused him to produce little Melanin causing a change in skin pigmentation as the years went on (And the planet Ceti Alpha V's Craylon Gas forced his need to adapt to harsh environments.) but that's just a gripe to me because of the changed looks.


 


-The klingons atleast give a sort of reason why they act like faceless mooks in the movie. If they would have explained their cranial ridges were dissipating (or aluded to that.) and were shamed, it would have bought me a willing suspension of disbelief.


 


All in all, still a great movie in my opinion but they could have shifted different gears to turn the 're-run' into a new experience that we would have waited eagerly for. It's too late now, sadly.

warp speed

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 02 2013, 8:05 pm

This movie reminds me of Tom Paris's holodeck fantasy "The Adventures of Captain Proton". It is a science fiction B movie with predictable characters. I only wish there was a new episode of Voyager. I'm tired of watching reruns.

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Jun. 02 2013, 9:20 pm

Quote: DS9_FOREVER! @ May. 31 2013, 6:46 pm

Quote: Kilrahi @ May. 31 2013, 6:00 pm

>

>

>How was this a revenge story?  Did we watch the same film?

>

 

Sooooo correct.


I think you two DID watch a completely different movie.


1. Khan vs. Admiral Marcus/Starfleet


2. Kirk vs. Khan


3. Spock vs. Khan

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4024

Report this Jun. 02 2013, 10:32 pm

Quote: warp speed @ Jun. 02 2013, 6:51 pm

Quote: wissa @ Jun. 02 2013, 6:21 pm

Quote: CmdrShran @ Jun. 02 2013, 12:34 pm

>

>

>

>I have only one thing to say about STD The Re re Wrath of Khan.....utter CRAP!

>So many of you people here have drank the Kool Aid that Jar Jar Abrams and his cronies have provided! This "Star Trek" is devoid of anything that Gene Roddenberry set down as to what Star Trek is all about. I say this as a true old time Trekkie! I have been with Star Trek from the beginning back when TOS aired on NBC, I was one of the many who wrote in to save Star Trek after it was cancelled after its second season. I have been involved in Star Trek fandom ever since then. My last foray into saving Star Trek was when ENTERPRISE was cancelled. Now its gonna be"Deja Vu all over again" because I want to save the REAL STAR TREK. I am sad to see what has become of our beloved franchise, it has been dumbed down and Star Warsed up and in the hands of someone who has admitted that he does not and never has cared for Star Trek or its fanbase. Are all of you Trek fans blind or just desperate for something called Star Trek? Have you NOT noticed how this movie is NOT real Star Trek...dont let the little "winks" at the fans in these films fool you. Orzi and Kurtzman may know Trek but they are not showing that they UNDERSTAND Trek. Star Trek has ALWAYS been about the exploration of the Human Condition and the introspection of what makes us tick. I for the most part have nothing against the cast of the new films...they are talented and can pull this off, the problem is the story or lack thereof. Star Trek inspired people to become scientists,engineers,astronauts because of the vision that Trek gave us. Nu Trek so far has given us none of that inspiration. What we have here is eye candy dressed up as Star Trek and like most candy eventually does is rot your teeth (or in this case your mind). Don't let the Real Star Trek die....let Paramount know your feelings! Now the only place to go for real Star Trek is Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II or the new Star Trek Continues web series, Star Trek Lives there!

>

I don't know what the deal is with noobs showing up and posting the exact same post in more than one thread.   But welcome to the boards.  I'm sure everyone here who liked the movie will be glad to hear how stupid you think they are. 

Your mixed statement of both welcome and insult proves your arrogance and how "stupid" (your words) you are. Everyone has a right to their opinion whether you think it's "stupid" or not.


Please point out where I said he couldn't have an opinion or where I said his opinion was stupid and I will apolagize


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newstar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 354

Report this Jun. 03 2013, 2:10 am

[quote]


I have only one thing to say about STD The Re re Wrath of Khan.....utter CRAP![/quote]


I totally disagree with that part.


[quote]


So many of you people here have drank the Kool Aid that Jar Jar Abrams and his cronies have provided![/quote]


Omit the insults please.  I used to hang out on these boards a lot and have seen that any personal attacks distract from real arguements and stimulating discussions.


Quote:

This "Star Trek" is devoid of anything that Gene Roddenberry set down as to what Star Trek is all about.


Here's where I start to agree with you, but "devoid" is too strong a word. In my review


http://wendygamble-startrekthemovie.blogspot.com/2013/05/star-trek-into-darkness-dizzying.html I did say the great bird would likely not have approved of the movie. It does have a message about the need for the prime directive, with Kirk lambasted for ignoring it, reflecting, and starting to grow into the original version of himself (who also did ignore the prime directive on occasion, which I agree with.  I'm not a huge fan of sticking to it no matter what like Picard.)  This Kirk had a very different upbringing, and the enviroment brought out some of the negative aspects we saw in bad Kirk in TOS (Wolf in the Fold).  All the negative traits you see in reboot are there in TOS.  I find it fun to anticipate watching the evolution of the characters, especially messed up Kirk, to grow into the noble captain we know.  I believe theyre getting there with him, and the journey is fun.  I therefore enjoyed the movie despite it not being proper Roddenbery Trek, with his optimistic ideology.


Quote:

I say this as a true old time Trekkie! I have been with Star Trek from the beginning back when TOS aired on NBC, I was one of the many who wrote in to save Star Trek after it was cancelled after its second season. I have been involved in Star Trek fandom ever since then. My last foray into saving Star Trek was when ENTERPRISE was cancelled.


I was right there with the trying to save Enterprise.  Too young to write letters for TOS, as I was born the year Trek was.


 

Quote:

Now its gonna be"Deja Vu all over again" because I want to save the REAL STAR TREK. I am sad to see what has become of our beloved franchise, it has been dumbed down and Star Warsed up and in the hands of someone who has admitted that he does not and never has cared for Star Trek or its fanbase. Are all of you Trek fans blind or just desperate for something called Star Trek?


I've had the same concern, posted I wasn't buying the poster with the war destruction...I agree, it's a Star Wars plot.  Luckily I also enjoy Star Wars, so I resigned myself to it not being proper Trek and went to see it with that frame of mind.  Not desperate, but eager to see the characters as introduced in 2009 grow and develop and handle another crises.  The plot is no worse than The Wrath of Khan, it wasn't proper Trek either, and is therefore not my favourite movie.  Basically, I love the potential of the reboot characters, and sorry, love the eye candy, very handsome Kirk and Spock.  Very shallow, but what's a girl to do?  It fun.  In the end, passion for seeing the beloved characters the same yet differnt won out over my problems with the plot and ideology.


 


 

Quote:

Orzi and Kurtzman may know Trek but they are not showing that they UNDERSTAND Trek. Star Trek has ALWAYS been about the exploration of the Human Condition and the introspection of what makes us tick. I for the most part have nothing against the cast of the new films...they are talented and can pull this off, the problem is the story or lack thereof. Star Trek inspired people to become scientists,engineers,astronauts because of the vision that Trek gave us. Nu Trek so far has given us none of that inspiration.


I totally agree with you there.  I'm hoping that will change next movie.


Quote:

  What we have here is eye candy dressed up as Star Trek and like most candy eventually does is rot your teeth (or in this case your mind).


I don't think eye candy has or will do me any harm, it's just insufficient by itself as a full life experience or learning exercise. Hopefully young minds will be exposed to real trek as well, maybe through getting caught up in new trek, which I think (hope) is evolving.


 

Quote:

Don't let the Real Star Trek die....let Paramount know your feelings!


I'm all for that! Please, Paramount, let the next movie have hope for the future, fascinating science, maturing characters (who still need guidance and have problems and conflicts.)  I think it's easier to send messages to developing mind by showing Kirk et al making mistakes and learning from them than by having them be perfect and boring.  It's fun to watch them get into trouble, then suffer and get out of it.


 [quote]Now the only place to go for real Star Trek is Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II or the new Star Trek Continues web series, Star Trek Lives there!


[/quote]


Great projects, but I also want the real thing, that adds to canon and has a larger budget.  I don't, however need as many expensive effects as they fork out for.  I'd prefer more time on characterisation and plot elements.  The effects in Enterprise were just fine, it's all you need for great Trek.  The big screen spectacular is fun, but not as satisfying as a weekly show that really develops the characters.


[quote]I don't know what the deal is with noobs showing up and posting the exact same post in more than one thread.   But welcome to the boards.  I'm sure everyone here who liked the movie will be glad to hear how stupid you think they are. 


[/quote]


I think it was the "noob" term that could have been insulting, giving the impression that people new to the forum don't have as much right to be here, or are resented.  The final sentence was a bit sarcastic, but deserved, in my mind.


On another note, interesting to see the Star Wars fan new in here.  I'm glad to see a convert and new fan, it also does support the arguements for the reboot being like Star Wars.


 


 


Imagination is the only thing that's truly free.

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4024

Report this Jun. 03 2013, 9:22 am

we were all noobs once.


 


Back in the days when all noobs were looked on with suspicion and hostility around here I was one of the ones arguing that noobs should be welcomed with open arms.  They are the life blood of any message board.  I still feel that way.  I just think that it isn't too much to ask that they also so a tiny bit of message board etiquette and refrain from spamming the boards with the same post in multiple threads and showing a little respect for their fellow trek fans. 


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rocketscientist

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POSTS: 10054

Report this Jun. 04 2013, 9:07 am

Well, I finally saw the film last night.  It's the third film I've seen in the last 2 years (since my twins were born), so it was kind of special for my wife and me. 


I loved it!  I thought STID was a great ST film.  The actors were great, the story was well-thought out and executed, and the production looked great. 


There were so many things I loved about the film.  Bruce Greenwood's scenes with Chris Pine were just great.  When he tells her that "it's going to be ok, son," and Kirk's reaction to his death, well, it's just incredibly moving.  Pike really was a father figure to Kirk.  Clearly, over the course the last few years the two really bonded.  I also LOVED seeing Nimoy again.  I was hoping he'd be in STID.  Yeah, it was a cameo, but it was a dang good one and served a purpose.  The way Nu-Spock and Spock-Prime interacted, addressing each other as "Mr. Spock," brought a smile to my face.  It sounded like they were good friends, like Nu-Spock had taken Spock-Prime up on his offer to be something of a mentor to him.  That makes sense.  Spock-Prime has resolved his internal human-Vulcan struggle, which Nu-Spock is still dealing with.  Add on to that the trauma that both of them are still dealing with wrt the loss of Vulcan.  Anyway, whoever was responsible, Orci, Kurtzmann, Abrams, thanks so much for Nimoy's appearance.  I hope he's in the next one as well. 


I thought the reversed role death scene between Kirk and Spock was inspired.  It's not a rip off of TWOK, if anything, it's an outright homage to that classic film.  It really is the moment where the Kirk and Spock friendship begins, culminating in Spock, this time, screaming Khaaannnnn!!! (Zach Quinto did a good job, but sorry, no one will ever equal Shatner's immortal "KHAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!" 


Seeing Spock lose it and go after Cumberbatch just made so much sense.  Spock's emotions, which he'd been repressing so much after Vulcan was destroyed, just roared back.  It made sense. 


Pine and Urban were both again great as Kirk and McCoy.  This time, though, with STID, Quinto's Spock worked even better for me.  I don't know what it was, last time with ST09, but for some reason, his Spock didn't work as well as Pine's Kirk or Urban's McCoy.  It's probably just me and not Quinto's ST09 performance.  I've thought about it a bit, and I just think that, for me at least, it was just a lot harder to seperate Nimoy, with his distinctive voice and look, from the Spock character.  I don't think it had anything to do with Quinto's performance in ST09, it was my inability to make that leap for that particular character.  Anyway, for whatever reason, in STID, his portrayal of Spock really clicked for me this time. 


It's interesting to see both how similar and how different Pine and Quinto's Kirk and Spock are from Shatner's and Nimoy's due to the changes in the timeline from ST09.  Kirk is still not the mature commander, at least at the beginning of STID, that Shatner's Kirk was.  This is mostly due to his lack of a father figure and his lack of experience as a SF officer.  Shatner's Kirk always played fast and loose with the rules, including the Prime Directive, in order to do the right thing, but he also payed more attention to regulations and was more mature with his relationships than Pine's Kirk.  But, again, in light of the changes in ST09, it makes sense.  Pine was right in his interviews.  In this film, Kirk really does become the captain of the Enterprise.  He earns it. 


Similarly, Quinto's Spock is a more rigid character than Nimoy's.  He's repressing a lot of emotion due to the destruction of Vulcan.  He has survivor's guilt.   


I also enjoyed Pegg's Scotty.  I think he's doing a good job with the character.


Cumberbatch and Weller did a fine job as the villains of STID.  Really, they both brought their A-games.  Cumberbatch was definitely a force of nature as Khan and Weller did  a great job as Admiral Marcus, the guy who was running Section 31. 


Story-wise, I thought the character's stories and relationships just made sense.  Bob Orci, you and your fellow writers got it right. 


That said, here are my nitpicks. 


1.  Once again, we have a problem wrt the time and distance.  Shouldn't it be more than a day to Kronos?  (loved the new Klingons ships btw, but I don't like the helmets, that's too much of a departure for me).  I know the filmakers want to keep things moving, but aren't their ways to get by this?  I mean, it kind of violates their premise, that this is the same galaxy as the original timeline.  It should take longer. 


2.  Transwarp beaming.   It was used in ST09 and it's used here too.   If you have transporters that can beam people across the galaxy, why do you need starships.  And Khan was able to miniaturize one of them too!  Yeah, they definitelyused a similar device in TNG and other deux ex machina technobabble in a lot of TNG, DS9, and VOY episodes, but sorry, this transwarp beaming thing is a real problem. 


3.  Ok, this is the one that made me grit my teeth.  No, no, no.  The Enterprise would not just start to fall to earth, particularly at that distance, just because it lost power.  I know, I have a PhD in aerospace engineering and do orbit transfer planning and design and ascent trajectories for a living (and some propulsion problems too).  I have a bigger problem with this than the transwarp beaming, because this is just real physics, not magic ST technology.  There was a way here to make this work, say by having a large piece of debris hit the Enterprise to change it's trajectory, or having an explosion on the ship, just something like that to impart a force on it (it'd have to be big, though).  Bob Orci, do you guys have a science advisor?  You had that JPL scientist, didn't you?   


4.  Like a lot of fans, I'm a little dissapointed that Cumberbatch didn't bear a closer resemblance to Ricardo Montablan.  Cumberbatch was excellent in the film, but after seeing how well (for the most part), the iconic ST roles were cast in the last film, I just don't understand why they didn't have him look or sound more like Montablan's Khan.  On a lesser note, why the English accent for Alice Eve's Carol Marcus?  Alice Eve said she could do an American accent, so why didn't Abrams have her do that?  To sum it up, I was kind of bummed and left wondering why a greater effort wasn't made to get these two actors to at least sound and act like their prime-universe counterparts.  '


5.  The scene in the merchant ship where Spock and Uhura discuss their relationship in front of Kirk.  That just didn't work for me.  It's not because of the actors or what was said, just that they'd talk it out in the presence of their commanding officer. 


6.  This is more of an observation and not really much of a nitpick or a problem.  Yes, I really enjoyed STID and ST09 before it, but it's hard to ignore how different it is from the previous 10 ST films in terms of action and production.  Abrams' two movies had so much more money than all the prior films except for TMP (adjusted for inflation of course) and it shows.   Just compare it to NEM, for instance, which had similar sfx technology available but a much lower budget.   Now, I realize this is a different time, where the blockbuster films have to have these extremely intricate sfx, graphics, sfx, and action to be marketable to a younger audience that apparently has less patience and a shorter attention span.  I'm really sorry if I tick any younger folks off, but the reality is with all these new phones, more elaborate video games, and how pervasive the internet is, you just can't ignore their effects on our culture.  It's commented on and written about all the time.


The problem with having all these elaborate sfx and incredible action sequences is that the character drama can be overwhelmed.  That being said, I didn't think that happened in STID.  I think Bob Orci, Alex Kurtzmann, and Damon Lindelof managed to keep the characters' journeys strong and simultaneously deliver what a summer blockbuster with a $190 million budget requires in terms of action and spectacle.  That said, after seeing STID, I was kind of nostalic for those great TOS films, TWOK, TSFS, TVH,  TUC, and even the great TNG film FC.  Those films only had a small fraction of the budgets of Abrams films (adjusted for inflation).  As everyone knows, all the original ST films, with the exception of TMP, had much smaller budgets than other big-budget sf action films, in particular the SW films.  Because of that lower budget, imo, they had to rely more on the character drama and the story.  The characters, in those better films, couldn't be overwhelmed by the sfx and the production.  It was just impossible.  But, by the same token, they couldn't rely on them either.  The story and the actors had to make the movie great.  That's something I'm appreciating more and more due to watching many classic films on TCM.  There are so many really great films where the story and perfomances just shine.  Like the original ST films and, especially, the original TOS series, they couldn't rely on the big action set pieces and incredible visual sfx to sell a film. 


All that said, I'm a realist.  This is what a post 2010 ST film looks like now, under Paramount's current strategy.  This is what they want and what they think sells, and, actually, I think they're right.  It's kind of sad to say, but after the very poor box-offices of INS and NEM, both of which weren't good films imo (and the critics and most fans), it's not surprising that Paramount wants ST to look more like other summer blockbusters.  I can't blame them.  This is what sells nowadays.


 All that said, with things being as they are, again, I want to say again how much I enjoyed STID.  I think it's a great film and I enjoyed it very much.  (Bob Orci, please don't take my nitpicks and the above criticism personally, I really did love the film).  I really want to see one more film, at least, with this cast and these writers.  Abrams, Orci, Kurtzmann, Lindelof, and the cast and the crew should all feel very proud at creating such a great ST film. 

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Jun. 04 2013, 9:33 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jun. 04 2013, 9:07 am

>

>Well, I finally saw the film last night.  It's the third film I've seen in the last 2 years (since my twins were born), so it was kind of special for my wife and me. 

>I loved it!  I thought STID was a great ST film.  The actors were great, the story was well-thought out and executed, and the production looked great. 

>There were so many things I loved about the film.  Bruce Greenwood's scenes with Chris Pine were just great.  When he tells her that "it's going to be ok, son," and Kirk's reaction to his death, well, it's just incredibly moving.  Pike really was a father figure to Kirk.  Clearly, over the course the last few years the two really bonded.  I also LOVED seeing Nimoy again.  I was hoping he'd be in STID.  Yeah, it was a cameo, but it was a dang good one and served a purpose.  The way Nu-Spock and Spock-Prime interacted, addressing each other as "Mr. Spock," brought a smile to my face.  It sounded like they were good friends, like Nu-Spock had taken Spock-Prime up on his offer to be something of a mentor to him.  That makes sense.  Spock-Prime has resolved his internal human-Vulcan struggle, which Nu-Spock is still dealing with.  Add on to that the trauma that both of them are still dealing with wrt the loss of Vulcan.  Anyway, whoever was responsible, Orci, Kurtzmann, Abrams, thanks so much for Nimoy's appearance.  I hope he's in the next one as well. 

>I thought the reversed role death scene between Kirk and Spock was inspired.  It's not a rip off of TWOK, if anything, it's an outright homage to that classic film.  It really is the moment where the Kirk and Spock friendship begins, culminating in Spock, this time, screaming Khaaannnnn!!! (Zach Quinto did a good job, but sorry, no one will ever equal Shatner's immortal "KHAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!" 

>Seeing Spock lose it and go after Cumberbatch just made so much sense.  Spock's emotions, which he'd been repressing so much after Vulcan was destroyed, just roared back.  It made sense. 

>Pine and Urban were both again great as Kirk and McCoy.  This time, though, with STID, Quinto's Spock worked even better for me.  I don't know what it was, last time with ST09, but for some reason, his Spock didn't work as well as Pine's Kirk or Urban's McCoy.  It's probably just me and not Quinto's ST09 performance.  I've thought about it a bit, and I just think that, for me at least, it was just a lot harder to seperate Nimoy, with his distinctive voice and look, from the Spock character.  I don't think it had anything to do with Quinto's performance in ST09, it was my inability to make that leap for that particular character.  Anyway, for whatever reason, in STID, his portrayal of Spock really clicked for me this time. 

>It's interesting to see both how similar and how different Pine and Quinto's Kirk and Spock are from Shatner's and Nimoy's due to the changes in the timeline from ST09.  Kirk is still not the mature commander, at least at the beginning of STID, that Shatner's Kirk was.  This is mostly due to his lack of a father figure and his lack of experience as a SF officer.  Shatner's Kirk always played fast and loose with the rules, including the Prime Directive, in order to do the right thing, but he also payed more attention to regulations and was more mature with his relationships than Pine's Kirk.  But, again, in light of the changes in ST09, it makes sense.  Pine was right in his interviews.  In this film, Kirk really does become the captain of the Enterprise.  He earns it. 

>Similarly, Quinto's Spock is a more rigid character than Nimoy's.  He's repressing a lot of emotion due to the destruction of Vulcan.  He has survivor's guilt.   

>I also enjoyed Pegg's Scotty.  I think he's doing a good job with the character.

>Cumberbatch and Weller did a fine job as the villains of STID.  Really, they both brought their A-games.  Cumberbatch was definitely a force of nature as Khan and Weller did  a great job as Admiral Marcus, the guy who was running Section 31. 

>Story-wise, I thought the character's stories and relationships just made sense.  Bob Orci, you and your fellow writers got it right. 

>That said, here are my nitpicks. 

>1.  Once again, we have a problem wrt the time and distance.  Shouldn't it be more than a day to Kronos?  (loved the new Klingons ships btw, but I don't like the helmets, that's too much of a departure for me).  I know the filmakers want to keep things moving, but aren't their ways to get by this?  I mean, it kind of violates their premise, that this is the same galaxy as the original timeline.  It should take longer. 

>2.  Transwarp beaming.   It was used in ST09 and it's used here too.   If you have transporters that can beam people across the galaxy, why do you need starships.  And Khan was able to miniaturize one of them too!  Yeah, they definitelyused a similar device in TNG and other deux ex machina technobabble in a lot of TNG, DS9, and VOY episodes, but sorry, this transwarp beaming thing is a real problem. 

>3.  Ok, this is the one that made me grit my teeth.  No, no, no.  The Enterprise would not just start to fall to earth, particularly at that distance, just because it lost power.  I know, I have a PhD in aerospace engineering and do orbit transfer planning and design and ascent trajectories for a living (and some propulsion problems too).  I have a bigger problem with this than the transwarp beaming, because this is just real physics, not magic ST technology.  There was a way here to make this work, say by having a large piece of debris hit the Enterprise to change it's trajectory, or having an explosion on the ship, just something like that to impart a force on it (it'd have to be big, though).  Bob Orci, do you guys have a science advisor?  You had that JPL scientist, didn't you?   

>4.  Like a lot of fans, I'm a little dissapointed that Cumberbatch didn't bear a closer resemblance to Ricardo Montablan.  Cumberbatch was excellent in the film, but after seeing how well (for the most part), the iconic ST roles were cast in the last film, I just don't understand why they didn't have him look or sound more like Montablan's Khan.  On a lesser note, why the English accent for Alice Eve's Carol Marcus?  Alice Eve said she could do an American accent, so why didn't Abrams have her do that?  To sum it up, I was kind of bummed and left wondering why a greater effort wasn't made to get these two actors to at least sound and act like their prime-universe counterparts.  '

>5.  The scene in the merchant ship where Spock and Uhura discuss their relationship in front of Kirk.  That just didn't work for me.  It's not because of the actors or what was said, just that they'd talk it out in the presence of their commanding officer. 

>6.  This is more of an observation and not really much of a nitpick or a problem.  Yes, I really enjoyed STID and ST09 before it, but it's hard to ignore how different it is from the previous 10 ST films in terms of action and production.  Abrams' two movies had so much more money than all the prior films except for TMP (adjusted for inflation of course) and it shows.   Just compare it to NEM, for instance, which had similar sfx technology available but a much lower budget.   Now, I realize this is a different time, where the blockbuster films have to have these extremely intricate sfx, graphics, sfx, and action to be marketable to a younger audience that apparently has less patience and a shorter attention span.  I'm really sorry if I tick any younger folks off, but the reality is with all these new phones, more elaborate video games, and how pervasive the internet is, you just can't ignore their effects on our culture.  It's commented on and written about all the time.

>The problem with having all these elaborate sfx and incredible action sequences is that the character drama can be overwhelmed.  That being said, I didn't think that happened in STID.  I think Bob Orci, Alex Kurtzmann, and Damon Lindelof managed to keep the characters' journeys strong and simultaneously deliver what a summer blockbuster with a $190 million budget requires in terms of action and spectacle.  That said, after seeing STID, I was kind of nostalic for those great TOS films, TWOK, TSFS, TVH,  TUC, and even the great TNG film FC.  Those films only had a small fraction of the budgets of Abrams films (adjusted for inflation).  As everyone knows, all the original ST films, with the exception of TMP, had much smaller budgets than other big-budget sf action films, in particular the SW films.  Because of that lower budget, imo, they had to rely more on the character drama and the story.  The characters, in those better films, couldn't be overwhelmed by the sfx and the production.  It was just impossible.  But, by the same token, they couldn't rely on them either.  The story and the actors had to make the movie great.  That's something I'm appreciating more and more due to watching many classic films on TCM.  There are so many really great films where the story and perfomances just shine.  Like the original ST films and, especially, the original TOS series, they couldn't rely on the big action set pieces and incredible visual sfx to sell a film. 

>All that said, I'm a realist.  This is what a post 2010 ST film looks like now, under Paramount's current strategy.  This is what they want and what they think sells, and, actually, I think they're right.  It's kind of sad to say, but after the very poor box-offices of INS and NEM, both of which weren't good films imo (and the critics and most fans), it's not surprising that Paramount wants ST to look more like other summer blockbusters.  I can't blame them.  This is what sells nowadays.

> All that said, with things being as they are, again, I want to say again how much I enjoyed STID.  I think it's a great film and I enjoyed it very much.  (Bob Orci, please don't take my nitpicks and the above criticism personally, I really did love the film).  I really want to see one more film, at least, with this cast and these writers.  Abrams, Orci, Kurtzmann, Lindelof, and the cast and the crew should all feel very proud at creating such a great ST film. 

>


 


This is a fantastic review rocketscientist. I like how you clearly acknowledge the nitpicks or concerns, while at the same time acknowldging that hey, it's a different time and a different "piece" of the franchise...and there's no reason they can't both co-exist. I had a similar number and level of disappointments or concerns (some different, some the same), but no more or less than any other Trek film that I've come to love. My bottom line is that if I can't enjoy a movie because of these types of issues, that I'd hate ALL Star Trek movies. But I obviously lovce the Trek movies...so this stuff takes a back seat to simply being entertained and brought on a fun journey.


I really resonate with the idea that the previous films relied less on FX and more on personal drama due to the technology and budgets available. I think too that since those films were really "events" for the original casts...they tried to make them more character-friendly so the actors could sink their teeth into them and be convinced to return movie after movie. Sometimes I think that's why the TNG films were not as well done on the whole. The TOS movies were really "special" and had be be painstakingly crafted to make sure all of the cast members would be motivated to play the roles and that the fans would see them as worthwhile "reunions" of sorts. The TNG movies started immediately after that series ended...so I think it was a little less "special" for everyone involved.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 04 2013, 9:35 am

I think it's also interesting that we resonate with the "father figure" story lines of the last two films. Maybe it takes a dad to appreciate these kinds of things.


I hope the little ones are doing well. My boy is 19 months and I can't even imagine or remember a world before he was here!!! Awesome stuff....!

DS9_FOREVER!

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Report this Jun. 04 2013, 9:50 am

Don't see how you can see Spock as "in character" crying and screaming "KHAAAN!!!" rocket. He knew Kirk for about a year, and for about 1/2 that he was at odds with him.


I just found this great Star Trek MB!!  photo ac1685424929087bf1b7e7e0d734f861.jpg

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 04 2013, 10:04 am

Quote: Vger23 @ Jun. 04 2013, 9:35 am

>

>I think it's also interesting that we resonate with the "father figure" story lines of the last two films. Maybe it takes a dad to appreciate these kinds of things.

>I hope the little ones are doing well. My boy is 19 months and I can't even imagine or remember a world before he was here!!! Awesome stuff....!

>


I bet your boy's a cute little guy! 


Is he getting into everything too like mine is?  


It's been very fun with them, Vger, but dang, I get tired.  I never used to nap on the weekends.  Now, when they go down for theirs I pass out too. 


It's also been interesting, having girl and boy twins, seeing their differences.  I wanted at least one of the twins to be a boy but I have to say, the girl is just as wonderful.  It really doesn't matter what the gender is at all, they're both great.  I tell that to all the new dads in my department.


 The boy's very physical, very funny, very happy, and very cute (especially with his shock of red hair, which was (almost) a total surprise as I've got brown and my wife's a blond).  The girl is very girly, pretty, and really smart.  She is talking more than him, follows directions better, and just knows the score (she does try to manipulate us).  They really love each other and "talk" and laugh all the time.  My wife has said that the girl looks at the boy as an extension of herself.  She makes sure that if she gets a cookie, he always gets one too and that he's dressed, etc.


And yeah, the father theme in STID really did resonate with me.  It's a shame that Pike died in this film, but his death definitely served a dramatic purpose and Greenwood again did a wonderful job with the character. 


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Vger23

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Report this Jun. 04 2013, 10:31 am

Yeah...Greenwood has been a great addition to the huge Star Trek family.


The little guy is awesome. Very loving and very "boyish" (likes to rough-and-tumble etc). My wife and I do as much stuff with him as possible, and we love every second of it. It's been a great life experience. I can understand the nap thing, though...that's for sure!


Glad to hear you're loving it as much as I am sir!

fireproof78

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Report this Jun. 04 2013, 11:33 pm

Finally saw this film-it's been a roller coaster ride, both in my life and debating to see the film. I've been aching for it, but it got frustrating at times too.


First of all, spoilers, just in case (I like to be fair to people)...


 


Alright, still on board?


 


Good.


 


Now, I went in to this film expecting decent things but not sure what the whole thing would look like. Trailers and the like often leak information out of order and so I really stepped back and took it in.


Ok, I admit to crying at the opening with Noel Clark sacrificing himself so that his daughter would live. Being a father, the grief was too real for me and just was hard to take. It also demonstrated how manipulative of a foe Harrison/Khan was.


The opening mission, and resulting fall out, is great, to me, simply because it shows Kirk's immaturity, his almost lack of growth from getting the chair to actually being a captain beyond an emergency. Pike's lecture is great because it shows Kirk's potential and how far he has to go. It demonstrates Pike's willingness to still go out on a limb for Kirk because he still believes in him. That dynamic was really moving to me and made more painful at Pike's death. Hated that scene too-for making me want to cry.


Finally, the big reveal of Harrison as Khan...not that grand. It really was downplayed more than I thought and even Spock Prime's explanation of him was good but just info dumping really. So, when fans cry out "KHAN!" and mean it with surprise, shock and/or anger, I still left with a sense of


Ok, I get it, they are rehashing Khan because he was such a popular villain and we need to satisfy the fans, etc. etc. Well, quite honestly, remove the Khan reference and the movie would have worked just fine if not better. I like the idea that Harrison is an augment, but a product of Section 31 engineering, not a blast from the past. However, in essence that is what Marcus did (more on him in a minute). For all the talk of Khan being white (poor choice but I think that point has been driven home) the idea that Section 31, Marcus specifically, sought him out, revived him, manipulated him and engineered him to be the perfect weapon against the Klingons is just so dark for Starfleet that the idea is great. That was the plot point I got behind, and so Khan kind of faded to the background to me.


Marcus. Peter Weller is perfect as Marcus, the admiral who is willing to sacrifice his principles for the sake of victory. Marcus is like DS9 summed up. He is Agent Sloan, Admiral Leyton, and Admiral Cartwright all roled together. He is the darkness, the underside of the Federation, those who belive so strongly in their cause that they will break rules, morals and ethics for the sake of winning.


For me, that was what was interesting as was Kirk's speech at the end. Kirk's reminder that their rules and way of life are there for a reason, that to throw them away is to give in to savegery, which is what Marcus did. It very much reflects on modern culture as there is threats of enemies, from within and from without.


There are, of course, several moments that could be commented on, but the theme of family and how far you are willing to go to protect them is one that resonates strongly with me. Khan is willing to kill everyone for the sake of his "family" while using others to kill for the sake of theirs. Kirk finds his own family, as well as the humiility to admit his mistakes. We also discover that despite these flaws, his crew is still loyal to him and earns their respect in a new way.


The characters, again, are great. The cast is such a wonderful blend of people and there is a clear dyamic that exits that keeps its energy going through the film. People will love or hate the relationship of Spock and Uhura and I get that. It becomes a family feud there for a bit but they get past it, and Kirk clearly still has no grasp of a true relationship so he really isn't the best at giving advice. It's an odd moment, and it didn't play very well to me. However, it also shows Spock still has emotions (again, they are suppresed not absent) and his desire to keep them under control.


Kirk's death...ok, this will get some heat but besides ripping from TWOK it was a good moment. One, Pine is a fantastic actor and takes that death scene as far as it can go. His performance is what really works in that scene. I get that the relationship is not there for Spock to be so upset, but I took more that Spock was just realizing how much their friendship means to them (similiar to how he needed to express himself to Uhura) and now he lost his friend. I think the emotions there are a combination of the meld with Pike at his death, the facing of death in the volcano, and finally seeing another person die within, oh, 2 days maybe. Sorry, that takes its toll on a person.


So, while not a perfect scene (the confrontation between Kirk and Marcus is better, as well as Kirk and Scotty arguing about the radiation) it still does well. Again, it flows from the theme of "What would you do for your family" and Kirk is recognizing his need to stand between death and his family.


Each character gets their moment to shine, some several moments, especially Sulu. His chance to sit in the captain's chair makes me want to cast John Cho as the series lead for a new series: Excelsior.


In conclusion, the movie is not perfect and tries too hard to appeal to fans who were burned by the last movie. It took some good themes, and had it continued without Khan I think it would have been better. Instead, it ends up stacking itself against TWOK for no reason than fan service and that is a disservice to this film.


If I were to score it, it would be 7/10, due to imitation rather than originality.


For now, that is all

ctakahashi

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Report this Jun. 07 2013, 10:50 am

Here we go:


JAR JAR ABRAHMS MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS SINS!!!!!  I have a Phaser with his name on it.  I just saw the "Into Darkness" film.  You can tell how excited I was by the fact that I've waited this long to see it.  Abrahms should be frozen as well....then shot into the Sun!  Doesn't he have any other ideas (original ones, Mr. "3X on the main credits").  Ripping off "Wrath of Khan" has got to be the slimiest thing to do.  I found myself mouthing the words of the main lines (to myself, I don't ruin movie experiences for people, let the movie do that) being spoken by GASP different actors!  The Spock/Uhura spat served no real purpose and the pathetic attempt at humor was disappointing.  The sets/effects just screamed: "LOOK! 3-D! oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh...).  Just have Spock thrust a spear at you and have the Doctor taunt you with various organs, at least that's an honest gag.  And just how BIG is the new Enterprise?  Since the turbolifts don't seem to go anywhere useful (they seem to have forgotten the sideways motion), you must get a marathon completion prize whenever you make it to engineering!  There were a couple of bright points:  Dr. McCoy was spot on again, Sulu's voiceover was great (thought it was Takei for a bit), Effects were nice. 


Now for the nitpicky stuff:


HATS!!! What the heck is this, an authoritarian collective of some sort?  Either that, or the biggest chaeuffer convention in history.  Overcoats:  Why?  It wasn't even foggy in San Francisco (gotta love global warming).  Since when is the enterprise a ramjet?  Spinning wheels and Cherenkov radiation wakes, don't even get me going.  And, again THE ENTERPRISE APPARENTLY IS A STICK SHIFT!  Don't they have automatic instead of clutch in the 23rd century?  The "miracle" potion....big cop out.  Stick to the Genesis wave.  Why the need to show the dude with the machinery in his head every time we see the bridge.  Also, who's relative is he?  He certainly got enough closeups (LOL). And does the Federation have to put BRAND PLACEMENT on everything from the uniforms to the doctor's gown, to Kirk's hospital gown!  Well, that's enough for now but one more thing:  everything on the ship was flying around.  How did the tribble stick to the table with the vials?  This just isn't Gene's future.  This future looks just like today with a little more polish.  The Dream deserves better.......oh yeah, who's idea was it to ressurect the Admiral's uniform from STMP?

SirAnthony1

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Report this Jun. 08 2013, 10:14 am

I want to thank J.J. Abrams for making Into Darkness. I thought it captured what made TOS great and made it even better. I'm thrilled the series is continuing after it seemed dead. Not only is it continuing but it is reinvigorated and even better. I only wish we had a series to watch. Four years is a long time to wait but I will be there when new content is released. Thank you!


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