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TL;DR One fan's point of view on the new Star Trek

wissa

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POSTS: 4031

Report this May. 16 2013, 9:21 am

I've been watching Star Trek since 1972.  I'm pretty sure I qualify as an "old fan".  I love the new movie and would even go so far as to say it's in the top three of movies.  Yet I'm told I'm stupid and unsophisticated and obviously a new fan for thinking so. 


 


I do not have a problem with people who dislike the movie.  I do not have a problem with people who want to have a rational discussion about the movie.  I do have problems with people act like it's the end of all civilization when they can nitpick some "flaw" in the movie.  I do have a problem with people who seem to have forgotten that trek was riddled with canon flaw and continuity errors since the begining.  And I do have a problem with people who come to a Star Trek message board and insult people for liking trek.


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bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 16 2013, 9:53 am

Nowhere did I say you were stupid or unsophisticated, but it is the opinion of some that the material of NuTrek is indeed unsophisticated. Paramount freely admitted to making it "Less Trekkie, more action"


Honestly, people opposed to NuTrek are getting a lot more abuse than those longtime fans who may like it.  


And nitpicking is one of the fundamental values upon which science fiction fandom was founded. This is not a new practice. 


 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

wissa

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POSTS: 4031

Report this May. 16 2013, 10:12 am

Dude, look at your sig


 


This movie is just as deep as any other star trek movie.  I'd say even deeper than that travesty of a film tmp or voyage home. 


I'm constantly amazed at people who will come into any internet message board and be openly critical of other people's opinion, even violently critical, then somehow think it's some horrible thing when people are critical of their opinion.  Or if more than one person disagrees; that it's some sort of internet conspiracy.


you post your opinion, then others post theirs.  That is how a discussion works.  It's not you post your opionion, others post theirs but they are tar and feathering you and you get to have your opinion dammit and everyone else isn't allowed to respond.


 


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crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this May. 16 2013, 10:14 am

I'm an old fan as well. The new Star Trek alternate timeline is just fine. One might consider that those opposed to the new Star Trek timeline are being abused because they go around trying to stir things up with fallacious rants, paranoid vitriol, and try to poison other people's enjoyment of Star Trek by creating a toxic atmosphere.

Ethics are arbitrary.

darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 390

Report this May. 16 2013, 10:29 am

This movie is just as deep as any other star trek movie.  I'd say even deeper than that travesty of a film tmp or voyage home.


Are you implying the people who like TMP and TVH are dumb?


bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 16 2013, 10:56 am

My signature is just a signature. Honestly you just decried nitpicking and then you're nitpicking my signature?  Oy vey. Are you frakking serious?


I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain standard from something called Star Trek.  And I have been critical of the movie. Not people.  I have been talking in general terms about the movie. Again, I don't know why you're focusing on me in particular, when I'm just stating reasons why some fans are resistant to the movie and dislike it.    It's a general discussion and you're making it about one person.  


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 16 2013, 2:02 pm

Quote: bunkey @ May. 16 2013, 10:56 am

>

>My signature is just a signature. Honestly you just decried nitpicking and then you're nitpicking my signature?  Oy vey. Are you frakking serious?

>I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain standard from something called Star Trek. 

>


I think the laughing face is explicitly to show that wissa is not serious. (Correct me if I'm wrong wissa--I don't mean to put words into your mouth.)



It's not unreasonable at all. However, may I remind you of the following:


Move Along Home
Profit & Lace
Spock's Brain
Threshold
Let He who is Without Sin
The Naked Now
Sub Rosa


...not all of which are episodes I personally dislike either, but certainly not up to the kind of high standard of which you speak. As for depth, best say no more.


Incidentally I really like The Voyage Home. (Undecided on TMP.)


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 16 2013, 2:12 pm

Out of 800+ hours of content, there's going to be some stinkers.  But the overall level of quality of Star Trek is what I'm talking about.  


And really, my point of the post wasn't to debate the quality of Star Trek in the first place, it was to try to show the point of view some fans might share and why Star Trek means so much.


I was posting on another thread about NuTrek and my dislike and some lovely individual decided to tell me to "get out of the basement".  It's that kind of attitude towards the fans that disike NuTrek and are vocal about it that is unacceptable.  The concept and attitude that fans who dislike  NuTrek are closed minded, zealots, and other negative labels what bothers me. Don't Trekkies get enough of that from outsiders?

crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this May. 16 2013, 2:24 pm

I think that part of what you're encountering is the result of Star Trek fans having to listen to a small subgroup of fans complain and fuss unreasonably and without any real point for 4 years. Trying to examine every last detail to death and trying to convert other fans to your point of view may very well be a new thing for you. You might want to keep in mind that for others it's been 4 years of listening to useless complaining and a lot of people's patience might be razor thin by now.

I'm not that we shouldn't remain civil to one another but don't be surprised by some rather volcanic reactions to all of this.

Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 16 2013, 2:30 pm

To me it's still not an excuse for being cruel to fans.  You never, ever  know what their story is.  They may suffer from an illness and Star Trek is their point of continuity and normalness.  They may have a very personal story you don't know about.  They may simply be offended by the choice to cast a white actor in a POC role. (I have been on other forums where many people of color express genuine hurt from that.


I know that asking people to be nice on the internet is like spitting in the ocean, but Star Trek fans should be better than that.


And honestly, it's been 25 years and there are still Kirk vs Picard arguments that get heated. 20 years and there are stil DS9 sucks/doesn't suck debates.  It's not like it's anything new.

wissa

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POSTS: 4031

Report this May. 16 2013, 2:54 pm

You have been very confrontational and condescending since you arrived on this site.  It may not have been your intention but it is the way you have come across.  And Crellmost is right.  We have been listening to virtually the same arguments for 4 years now.  It's hard not to look at someone roaring in posting thier disdain all over the board as anything other than trolling. 


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bunkey

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Report this May. 16 2013, 3:08 pm

What you call confrontational I call counter points and debating.  Condescending? Or expressing dislike for what I consder inferior Star Trek.


It is possible to have a heated debate about the topic without it turning personal.  It's possible to differ in opinion without judging someone as a person. It's possible for someone to have a very strong opinon about something without being a troll.


 

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 16 2013, 3:11 pm

Quote: bunkey @ May. 16 2013, 2:12 pm

>

>I was posting on another thread about NuTrek and my dislike and some lovely individual decided to tell me to "get out of the basement".  It's that kind of attitude towards the fans that disike NuTrek and are vocal about it that is unacceptable.  The concept and attitude that fans who dislike  NuTrek are closed minded, zealots, and other negative labels what bothers me. Don't Trekkies get enough of that from outsiders?

>


For what it's worth, I agree with this.


However, I've seen it go both ways, and fans of the new films are not undiscerning, stupid, and willing to accept anything that's thrown their way either. [This is not specificially aimed at you, but rather a distillment of general commentary I've seen in response to the new movies.]


You are right on one matter -- asking people to play nice is probably not going to work. Best defense is a) just let any insulting comments such as "get out of the basement" wash over you. If you suspect someone is about to insult you, don't even read what they have to say. b) play nice.


And know that people are welcome to disagree with you, about the movie, about Cumberbatch as Khan, about which series is best or sucks balls, or anything. And you(we) can't close the doors to new fans either, even if their introduction to Star Trek comes from a vague idea that Chris Pine is sexy.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

wissa

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POSTS: 4031

Report this May. 16 2013, 3:20 pm

well I totally was sucked into star trek because I had a 7 year old crush on Capt. Kirk 


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bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 16 2013, 3:32 pm

Honestly, the comments don't bother me. I'm just disappointed when I read them on a ST board. I have time to respond and debate at this point in my life, but I wonder how many other fans may have been scared into silence due to name calling by other Trekkies.


Honestly, I see some of the reactions here as the same exact "stranger danger" reaction I described in my OP to the influx  of NuTrek fans into fandom.  I get that.  And as I mentioned, we as a collective have a reputation for being exclusionary and hostile to outsiders. 


And mean, and honestly, if I say NuTrek is dumbed down and subpar Star Trek, because someone's taste differs from yours doesn't mean they're attacking you personally.  If you like it and say NuTrek is a stupid piece of $h!t, it doesn't mean you.

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