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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

ProgHead777

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POSTS: 5

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 12:09 am

Trek on TV died before widespread acceptance of LGBT people was represented on television. I think that WHEN Trek returns to television, that oversight will be rectified. That said, Trek came closer to acknowledging the existence of LGBT people than almost any other television series. They did this on TNG ("The Host", "The Outcast") and DS9 ("Rejoined"). The  DS9 episode in particular is notable because it featured a kiss between two women and received a severe backlash as a result. That was in 1995. I challenge you to find another example of a Prime Time American Television series episode that had the AUDACITY to feature such a controversial story line as that one did in the mid-1990s. You won't find one. In that sense, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine shared more in common with 1960s Star Trek (first inter-racial kiss, first frank discussion of sex and reproduction, first explicit excoriation of racist philosophy) than any other Trek series. They had the guts to EXPLICITLY address a topic that, at the time, was still culturally TABOO.


 


As for those individuals who believe that topics like this can ever be swept back under the rug: the tide of history is against you. Either come into the modern age and change your views, keep quiet, or be drowned under the unstoppable tsunami of social progress. You will lose, make no mistake. "Gene's vision" is a phrase that Star Trek fans like to throw around. What a few of them don't seem to understand is that it wasn't something Gene Roddenberry CREATED, it was something he was wise enough to FORESEE. Join us, or get out of the way.

Admiral Jimmy

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Report this Jun. 18 2013, 12:20 am

Gene Rodenberry was not alive when these gay moments in Star Trek happend, they clearly do not belong in Star Trek, and gays arent a mkdern thing there have been gays all through history and a path of destruction follows them where gays go destruction follows not far behind. Have you noticed that Klingons of all people arent gay in Star Trek? Klingons are smart enough to know that if they become gay their empire will be destroyed. We obviously dont have enough Honor to stand up for right so we either dont say anything or we fight for evil.


 


Live Long And Prosper

Admiral Jimmy

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POSTS: 21

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 12:23 am

And our lack of Honor and Courage will lead to our downfall.


 


 


 


 


 

ProgHead777

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POSTS: 5

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 2:11 am

[quote]


Gene Rodenberry was not alive when these gay moments in Star Trek happend, they clearly do not belong in Star Trek, and gays arent a mkdern thing there have been gays all through history and a path of destruction follows them where gays go destruction follows not far behind. Have you noticed that Klingons of all people arent gay in Star Trek? Klingons are smart enough to know that if they become gay their empire will be destroyed. We obviously dont have enough Honor to stand up for right so we either dont say anything or we fight for evil.


 


Live Long And Prosper


[/quote] 

"My attitude toward homosexuality has changed. I came to the conclusion that I was wrong. I was never someone who hunted down 'fags' as we used to call them on the street. I would, sometimes, say something anti-homosexual off the top of my head because it was thought, in those days, to be funny. I never really deeply believed those comments, but I gave the impression of being thoughtless in these areas. I have, over many years, changed my attitude about gay men and women." ~Eugene Wesley "GeneRoddenberry (August 19, 1921 – October 24, 1991)



"It is entirely fitting that gays and lesbians will appear unobtrusively aboard the 
Enterprise — neither objects of pity nor melodramatic attention." ~Leonard Nimoy,1991

He wasn't able to bring his plans to fruition, because the tiny-minded bigots and/or frightened people of his day stood in his way. Gene Roddenberry was an anti-bigot. Accept it. If you deny it, then you deny everything that Star Trek has stood for and continues to stand for. The future should be a place where every human being is free to choose her or his own destiny, so long as it does not interfere with those same freedoms for anyone else. Come along for the journey, or get out of the way. We will not stop for anyone.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 4:18 am

Quote: Sora @ Jun. 17 2013, 5:03 pm

>No actually, just for the record, I have known quite a few gays in my time. My childhood best friend became a woman. He got surgery and everything. He tries to act like a woman. Dresses like a woman. Wants to be a woman. And I have known quite a few lesbo's in my time too. Worked with many of them actually, and yeah in all the cases I have seen face to face, yes there is still a male and female figure at work in the relationship.

>And no I can't physically prove that my God exists. But I personally do know He exists. He has spoken to me and has been a part of my whole life. I can't offer tangible evidence to prove it, but I don't need to. In the words of Kira, "That's the thing about faith, if you don't have it, you can't understand it, and if you do have it, no explanation is necessary."

>I mean we can play this game all day. Your people like to say they have found fossils that prove evolution, my people also say they have found Jesus's tomb and the cloth He was wrapped in when He was dead. They've also claimed to have found pieces of Noah's Ark. They also say they found the Garden of Eden where Adam and Eve were created. I still can't go and prove they are right or wrong, and neither can you.

>You continue to say that I am close minded and a bigot, yet you attack me at every opportunity, and continue to imply that I shouldn't even be allowed to enjoy Star Trek simply because I don't want gays in it. Seriously? It seems me that you are the one who is close minded and intolorant to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Because not only have you been attacking me, but you also attack anyone else who has anything to say on this matter that doesn't fit into your perfect backward view of how things are. Where is your so-called tolorance for all vews now?


First of all, being transgender is not the same as being gay.  They are two entirely different things.  The fact that you equate a man having gender reassignment to a woman as "gay men want to be women" shows your ignorance on what being transgender and being gay is.  Gay people are attracted to the same gender. Transgender has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation and is about how someone self-identifies. They are two entirely different things. Yes, there are transgender homosexuals, but being transgender doesn't MEAN you're homosexual.  I know it's all very confusing and scary to you and it's much easier to lump all these groups of people into one so you can shun them. But learn a thing or two, will you?


So you've worked with a lot of "lesbos".  Wow. Have I mentioned to you how much lesbian women LOVE being called "lesbos"? It's their favorite thing. 


So you think there was a male and female gender role in these "lesbo" relationships? How so? Did you watch them have sex and one of them used a strap on and that's how you got to your conclusion? Or was it because one was "less feminine" than the other, according to your standards? What exactly qualifies a woman to be "acting like a man"? You still haven't answered that. Please, enlighten me to your definition of archaic gender roles that are probably steeped in societal traditions that have been forced upon women by men for thousands of years. 70 years ago Katherine Hepburn shunned society's "norms" by weaing pants. I guess that made her pretty dykey.  Please tell me how gender roles are defined? What exactly makes a woman "like a man"?  Perhaps you're referring to the fact that in every relationship, be it sexual or friendship, there is sometimes an alpha personality. I supposed you're insinuating that to be an alpha is to be a man, and that to be a beta is to be a woman? Another archaic, misguided gender stereotype.  Women cannot be alphas, if they are, they must want to be men? Please. Just please.


Everytime you try to qualify yourself as in tune with the issues LGBT communities face, you dig yourself deeper into a hole of ignorance. You claim to "know" gay people. But you don't. You really don't. If you did, if you were very close to a gay person and cared deeply about them as a friend, you would not be saying any of this. What you need is something like what happened to Senator Rob Portman. He was unsupportive of the LGBT community until his own son came out as gay.  Then he changed his stance and his mind. I would say I hope one of your kids turns out to be gay to hopefully enlighten you, but I really wouldn't wish that on them.


As far as me being closed minded, I am not.  I am not intolerant of religion or religious people. I am VERY intolerant of those who spread hate.  And you better believe I will "attack" someone who seeks to exclude and oppress a portion of society. I will throw stones, point fingers and say "This person discriminates!".  I tolerate a lot, but I do not tolerate discrimination. Discrimination is intolerable.  It's why, post 9/11, I volunteered to escort mothers and children of Islamic faith to school and chrurch. Because they were being persecuted simply because of their religion. Should I have tolerated the ignorant attacks on them? I supposed I should tolerate the Ku Klux Klan or the Westboro Baptist Church too?


Yes, you ARE close minded and intolerant because you do not want LGBT representation on Star Trek.  And sweetie, if I were "backward" I wouldn't be having this debate about progressiveness and moving forward.


As far as your enjoying Star Trek, no one is stopping you. If LGBT crew members appears on Star Trek, you have no one to blame for your inability to enjoy Star Trek but yourself.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 4:28 am

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 17 2013, 4:28 pm

>"Readily accept" no, but since this entire site is about the fandom of Star Trek, then bringing up the habits of it's creations would be allowed. As for my personal beliefs, yes, I firmly believe that homosexuality is wrong. That's the thing about living in a free country, I can believe as I like, and so can you.

>Certainly they allow personal relationships, as does the military I might add, however, ST was formulated in a time of traditional famil values, and in my opinion, should stay that way. And yes, there is a sex police. Just so you know.

>It has also revealed how close minded you are to traditional values. You can't expect everyone to agree with your point of view, and then use the same "close-minded bigotry" that you accuse others of having to tread on our beliefs. Either you believe in being open minded or you don't, you can't have it both ways. You're free to believe that homosexuality is acceptable, I am free to believe that it isn't. The conversation, however, is about it's role on Star Trek, and our opinions on the matter. You have mine.


Where, in Star Trek, is there a sex police? Please enlighten me.


And what  to "traditional family values" are you referring? Archaic gender roles? Or Christian values? Because while there are a lot of Christians in the world, they are far outnumbered by others. Christians only make up about 30% of the population. So should the other 70% of the world sumbit to your definition of values? And which Christian values should we follow? Catholic? Protestant? Episcopalian? Or is it just that we should define family values on the terms of the almighty United States? How arrogant.


I'm not closed minded to traditional values.  I believe every one in this country has the right to believe what they want as long as it doesn't harm others. And your wish to exclude LGBT people from Star Trek harms others. It oppresses others. 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 4:47 am

[And in your words and attitude towards me, your own intolorance as it were, you have inherently fulfulled the scripture.


Matthew Chapter 10 verse 22, Jesus says "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." John Chapter 15 verse 8, Jesus says "If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first."


So I guess I can't be too shocked that you have all but made your hate towards me very clear. You are of the world, and this is pretty clear that the world will hate me for speaking the truth because the truth is a threat to you. You'll notice that other religions are not attacked nearly as often or as harshly as Christianity. This world belongs to Satan and follows Satan, whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. Whether anyone here wants to believe that or not is irrelevant. The bottom line is it's the truth. Deal with it....


I don't hate you for being Catholic. I hate your views on the LGBT community because they'e harmful and ignorant.  


As far as Christianity being attacked the most...pulease!  Have you tried to attend a peaceful service at a mosque lately? Before you complain about that, try being a common, hard working person of Islamic faith that just wants to worship.  Try being told that your highest of holidays should be rescheduled because Ramadan ends close to 9/11 and then get back to me.  When was the last time you were told to cancel Christmas?  Oh poor Christian babies! Your church as an institution seeks to deny the rights of others to marry, condemns people to hell for simply loving someone, denies a woman's right to govern her own body, covers up the sexual abuse of children and in the next breath will say that same sex couples adopting kids is harmful.  Maybe people get pissed at Christianity because it's all up in everyone's business, filled with hypocrisy and constantly interferes with the way government sets laws in the name of God. Because whenever something is "morally wrong" or "against god" it's always a Christian saying it, judging others, trying to dictate policy to the rest of the world.  I've never had a Jewish person preach morality to me. I've never seen a bunch of Jews protesting against the rights of others.  And they're "God's Chosen People." 


Oooooh scary bible quotes! How scary! Hellfire! Brimstone! Ha. Too funny.  I'll give you a quote in return. 


"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun."


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 18 2013, 5:31 am

Quote: Sora @ Jun. 17 2013, 2:14 pm

>

>Yeah but the DS9 religions were all fictional. So it doesn't really offend anyone whether they are religious or not religious. And I'm sorry, but I have never seen a "homosexual animal" before in my life. Animals mate male and female because it's instinct. And I do have one question, let's say that being gay IS in fact normal and natural for a moment. If that's the case, why is that male's cannot pro-create with other males? And females with other females? Since you are so convinced that science proves gay as being nature, I know you also must think science also proves the accidental evolution of all life on this planet and in the universe, despite the fact that Evolution is a theory and cannot be proven. Same as religion is also a theory and can't be physically proven. Yes I know there's scientific evidence to support evolutionary and DNA changes in life on earth involving changes in atmosphere and environment. But it can't be proven that the first life on earth evolved from single celled organisms forming together and creating life. Unless we learn how to time travel, no one can go back and witness the actual creation of the earth, thus everything concerning creation and evolution is a BELIEF not FACT. My last question is, if being gay is normal, why is it that in most cases of gay couples, why is it that in both male gay couples and female gay couples, there's almost always one of them who still is the guy or the girl in the relationship, but then the other, the male couple for instance, tries to act like a woman? And in the opposite case of the female gay couple, one female acts like a man, while the other female, still acts like a female? If it's so normal, than why do they continue to attempt to approximate a straight couple situation? Just saying. 

>


evolution is not a "theory" in the way you say it is. In the scientific community a theory does not mean "best guess" it is based on evidence, research and observation. There are theories and there are laws. A law states that something happens. A theory describes how it happens. For example, the law of gravity says that if you drop an object it will fall towards the earth. The theory of gravity describes why it falls.


The same with evolution. It is a fact that evolution has happened on this planet, there is sufficient observable evidence in the fossil record. So just like with gravity, there is the law of evulution that states that evolution  has happened on this planet. There is also the theory of evolution which describes how evolution took place.


the most important factor that people forget is that evoutionary theory doesn't touch, doesn't try to begin to explain,  CREATION of life. Theories of evoluion begin after the initial spark of life on this planet.


please get your facts straight before making a stupid argument

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 18 2013, 5:33 am

Quote: Sora @ Jun. 17 2013, 2:14 pm

>

>My last question is, if being gay is normal, why is it that in most cases of gay couples, why is it that in both male gay couples and female gay couples, there's almost always one of them who still is the guy or the girl in the relationship, but then the other, the male couple for instance, tries to act like a woman? And in the opposite case of the female gay couple, one female acts like a man, while the other female, still acts like a female? If it's so normal, than why do they continue to attempt to approximate a straight couple situation? Just saying. 

>


have you ever even met a gay or lesbian couple?

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 18 2013, 5:38 am

Quote: Admiral Jimmy @ Jun. 17 2013, 10:20 pm

>

>just because youve never seen something dosent mean its not there i think quntam phisycs is mostly acurate except for example it says if there is a fire but no one sees it then there was in fact no fire WRONG! God is up there the evidence is all around us

>


what evidence? I can provide you with measurabl testable observable evidence of evolution. Can you do the same for a god?

Pooneil

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Report this Jun. 18 2013, 7:37 am

Quote: Sora @ Jun. 17 2013, 8:21 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 17 2013, 2:38 pm

>

> 

>I've never seen the Grand Canyon. Must not exist then.  If that's the case, then how do you know God exists? LOL! You've never met him.  You've just disproved your own faith. 

>

And in your words and attitude towards me, your own intolorance as it were, you have inherently fulfulled the scripture.

Matthew Chapter 10 verse 22, Jesus says "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved." John Chapter 15 verse 8, Jesus says "If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first."

So I guess I can't be too shocked that you have all but made your hate towards me very clear. You are of the world, and this is pretty clear that the world will hate me for speaking the truth because the truth is a threat to you. You'll notice that other religions are not attacked nearly as often or as harshly as Christianity. This world belongs to Satan and follows Satan, whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. Whether anyone here wants to believe that or not is irrelevant. The bottom line is it's the truth. Deal with it....


If Christianity is attacked more often than others in the Western world, it's because it's been the dominant religion for the past couple millennia. Other religions have very little influence in America and Europe by comparison, so it's no wonder they don't come in for the same sort of widespread criticism. Except, as Bunkey pointed out, for Islam, which has been viciously maligned and misunderstood by much of the USA for the past twelve years or so.


The lines about hate are ironic, and could easily be turned the other way. Throughout the history of Western civilization it has been the homosexuals who have been persecuted and abused -- criminalized, imprisoned, murdered, executed -- simply because of who they are, and yet Sora has contrived to turn Christians into the victims. Calling out homophobic Christians on their discriminatory views is, in a way, intolerance, but only in the same way that disciplining a schoolyard bully is intolerance.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 7:59 am

I agree with Pooneil. Calling someone out on bad behavior is not intolerance of Christianity, it's intolerance of bad behavior.  Crying victim when no one is trampling your rights, telling you that you're going  to hell,  beating you up or murdering you for simply being who you are is ridiculous.  The only thing homophobic Christians are in danger of is becoming extinct.

Admiral Jimmy

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Report this Jun. 18 2013, 8:29 am

i can tell you for a fact bunkey christians will never go extinct, and telling someone that they aren behaving inappropriately is a polite so that the person can correct themself.

willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 8:31 am

Quote: Admiral Jimmy @ Jun. 18 2013, 8:29 am

>

>i can tell you for a fact bunkey christians will never go extinct, and telling someone that they aren behaving inappropriately is a polite so that the person can correct themself.

>


You can predict the future? WOW!!!

Admiral Jimmy

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POSTS: 21

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 8:34 am

I didnt predict the future someone else did, there will be times when it looks like christians are gone but they never will be, God's people will always be here

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