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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 5:23 am

Compared with your quote from merely one page prior, where you said, "Personally, I think all organized religions, especially the Catholic church, are full of greedy hypocrites. Catholicism is one of the most oppressive, bigoted Western religions there is," I'd put forth that you appear to have just as intolerant an opinion of religious people as they appear have toward homosexuals.    


 Truth be told, though, there is a staggering gap in understanding here about a lot of things.  bunkey calls Catholicism greedy, hypocritical, oppressive, and bigoted.  Yet I tell you, some of the most kind, generous, and loving people I've ever met have been Catholics or Christians of various denominations.  These are people who help others out of a genuine love for their fellow human being, regardless of race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation.  You would attribute something they hold dear (their religion) as a something that's wrong with the world, but attacking it only adds more hatred to the world.


 


Re-read my statement. I said  " Personally, I think all organized religions, especially the Catholic church, are full of greedy hypocrites. Catholicism is one of the most oppressive, bigoted Western religions there is." 


I didn't say practicing Catholics as individuals. Catholism as an intitution is filled with greedy hypocrites. It's run like the mafia.   The history of corruption goes back thousands of years. There's scandal, child abuse, cover-ups, tax evasion among other things.  The dogma of the Catholic church is oppressive and bigoted.  Some of the wisest commentary on the Catholic church and organized religion in general can be found in the Kevin Smith movie "Dogma".  


 I have no problems with Catholics. I never said individual Catholics are the problem.  It's the Catholic church that I have a huge amount of problems with. (This also applies to all other organized religions, by the way. I am equal oppourtunity.)  


 


Let me tell you that, as a religious person, it saddens me a great deal to have to disagree with the homosexual agenda.  You call it bigotry and hatred, but you're so wrong.  I've been very good friends with a number of LGBT, and it pains me greatly that I cannot be accepting of the sexual aspect of their lives, when I want nothing more than to simply be happy for them and with them.


 


You claim to be "good friends" with people from the LGBT community, but cannot accept their lifestyle.  That is not a good friend.   You want nothing more than for your friends to be happy? People you call "good friends"? Then fight for their rights! Otherwise you are not a good friend. Good friends to not come with asterisks.


If it pains you so much that you "have" to disagree with their "homosexual agenda" then why do you disagree with it?  If it hurts you so much to do so, why do it? That makes zero sense.  Why follow a belief or teachings that  you're not comfortable with?!  Maybe the Catholic church is wrong?  Maybe the doctrine they teach is flawed.  You are an individual, a free thinking human being.  This is exactly why people reject organized religion. Because they want  to think for themselves and make their own choices as to what is right and wrong.   You do not need to follow an organized religion to do the right thing, be a good person or even believe in a god. Specific rules of organized religions have divided humans for thousands of years. It has been the causes of more wars than anything else.  I'm not saying these things to bash your beliefs. I'm saying them because you seem like a reasonably intelligent person.  Why are you letting an antiquated, patriarchal institution dictate your values if they make you feel so badly?  If you are a good person and want to do good, then do good. Do what you believe is good.


I was born and raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school for a number of years. My family wasn't overly religious, though, so there was not a lot of pressure on me.  I left Catholic school for financial reasons and went to public school. There I met people from all walks of life and started to realize the problems with organized religion. I became friends with Muslims, Jews, Buddhists....any religion you can name, they were there. (I am eternally grateful that I went to a magnet school in NYC. It truly opened my eyes.)   At 13 I refused to be Confirmed and never looked back.  When I was younger I identified as Athiest because that's what I thought being a non-religious person was, but as I grew up I learned that what I really identified as Agnostic.  I'm a good person. I'm smart enough to know right from wrong. I am also generous and loving.  I don't need a man in robes that claims a vow of poverty and drives a Lexus to dictate my life every Sunday.  If there is an afterlife, I have no fear of the fate of my soul.  


But I also have friends that are gay. I have friends that are transsexual. I have friends that have family members that are gay and transsexual.  And I cannot and will not be part of an institution that tells me that they will burn in hell simply because they love someone.  I cannot stand by and watch them be denied their human rights and call myself  "good".   I could not look myself in the mirror if I did.  


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this Jun. 17 2013, 5:35 am

Quote: Sora @ Jun. 16 2013, 6:45 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 16 2013, 4:24 am

Quote: Sora @ Jun. 15 2013, 6:57 pm

>

>

>Gays are not their own species....this whole thread is retarded....blacks, whites, chinese, japanese etc...yes they are all humans, but they are still their own culture. Gays are not a culture....it is a backward sexual orientation of being sexually attracted to the same gender as yourself. They are not a species...they are not a culture. Simply screwed up in the head from whatever trauma they dealt with at an early age most of the time. And for the record Rejoined wasn't even a lesbian kiss. They weren't lesbians and it had absolutely nothing to do with being gay.

 Marriage stands for love and sharing your life with someone you love. That's the same for gay or straight people

It's amazing how many so called fans of a show that promoted tolerance of all species and cultures are so blatantly ignorant and biased.

You are a backward individual who brings shame to all forward thinking Star Trek fans.  You are a disgrace to fandom. 

 

Again, I AM tolorant of other species and cultures...gays ARE NOT A FREAKIN CULTURE!!!!!! A freak of nature perhaps, but not a culture. And if I am a disgrace to fandom, than you are equally a disgrace to what marriage and scripture stand for.


Marriage stand for love, commitment, sharing your life with someone...gay or straight

willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this Jun. 17 2013, 5:39 am

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Jun. 16 2013, 8:20 am

>

>I find it surprising that so many people find it surprising that they prefer not to be tainted by Christianity.

The odd thing in all of this is that there is such a commotion just to shove Christianity down everyone's throats that it does take away from the natural feel of the show(s).

I do not think we could say the same about the Christians: many would watch the show just to see what the Christian characters were doing like in a soap opera, not watching the show for its meaning. To be honest, if they did just thow some Christians in, without all this diatribe, I don't see that most of us would care lest they make it a focus of the show.

I don't want to see Christian characters in Star Trek

I am very glad that there were no openly Christian characters in Star Trek. If so, I would not have watched it anymore. I do not deny that Christians are still people. IMO I think it is wrong. I cannot speak about other people though.

The idea of Christians on Star Trek revolts me. I am glad none were ever made.

Christians would of ruined Star Trek

It is a show about technology, science, and exploration of space. Christianity has no place in a show like that.

>


AMEN!!! There was already too much religion with the Bajorans

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 5:46 am


This whole thread just made me so sad. I can't believe there are so may intolerant, ignorant, bigoted people who call themselves Trek fans. I'm ashamed to share the same fandom with them


Truth be told, I'd honestly respect someone who said they were against homosexuality if they gave an actual reason for it that they could debate and defend. Something other than a religious argument. I would happily engage somone in a calm reasonable discussion.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 17 2013, 6:01 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 17 2013, 5:46 am

>This whole thread just made me so sad. I can't believe there are so may intolerant, ignorant, bigoted people who call themselves Trek fans. I'm ashamed to share the same fandom with them

>Truth be told, I'd honestly respect someone who said they were against homosexuality if they gave an actual reason for it that they could debate and defend. Something other than a religious argument. I would happily engage somone in a calm reasonable discussion.


 


You hit the nail on the head! The main argument against homosexuality is "It's wrong because...reasons!" or "God said so". No one can respond with a scientific, logical, fact based debate. No one says why it's wrong.  It's not hurting anyone. It's not taking anything away from straight marriage.  I know many LGBT couples that are happy, have families and some of the most stable, loving family units I know are same sex couples. They are happy, awesome and raising awesome kids.


Being gay hurts no one.  Intolerance of gays causes pain, suffering and death. Gays are victimized, beaten, shunned by family, killed and driven to suicide because of intolerance. They live in fear of violence and prejudice.


“If a couple of gay guys want to throw the gayest, most fabulous wedding of all time, the only way it should offend you is if you weren’t invited.” 


― Orlando Winters


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 17 2013, 6:16 am

Also, as long as we're talking sins, no good practicing Christian should be watching Star Trek in the first place. One of the biggest no-nos in the bible is premarital sex and sex for pleasure.  It's a sin for a woman to lose her virginity before marriage.  Women were also not allowed power and were subjugated to the will of their husbands.


So, Star Trek is just dripping with sin. There's sin all over the place.  According to the Bible, Kassidy Yates should have been stoned to death because she wasn't a virgin when she married Sisko. 

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 6:48 am

Quote: Kirk007Anthony @ Jun. 16 2013, 8:42 am

>

>Alright "Bunkey". The gloves are off. You and the ilk that agrees with you are not only whats wrong with Star Trek. But society in general. Not only are using Star Trek as a tool to promote you own idealistic opinions while at the same time excluding anyone's opinion. You are using (As most do) the word "Tolerance" as a tool in which to bludgeon. Get a life jerk. My dear and good friend Sora didnt say anything about Hate or how Gays are less than a person. He disagrees with the lifestyle. And doesnt want you or any other agenda shoved in his face. If someone doesnt agree with being gay. But can still respect a person. Whats wrong with that? Where is your "Tolerance". There isnt any. Your a joke. Im tempted to use words that would otherwise get me banned. You are a coward hiding behind your computer casting judgement. Leave my friend alone. Please refrain from casting judgement and using the word tolerance when you apparently know little of the definition you sad strange little man. And yes, You do have my pity as well. (In the immortal words of Buzz Lightyear)

>


you just make me sad. It's a shame that you can't see the hypocracy in what you just posted

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 6:50 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 17 2013, 6:16 am

>

>Also, as long as we're talking sins, no good practicing Christian should be watching Star Trek in the first place. One of the biggest no-nos in the bible is premarital sex and sex for pleasure.  It's a sin for a woman to lose her virginity before marriage.  Women were also not allowed power and were subjugated to the will of their husbands.

>So, Star Trek is just dripping with sin. There's sin all over the place.  According to the Bible, Kassidy Yates should have been stoned to death because she wasn't a virgin when she married Sisko. 

>


And Jadzia, and B'Elanna, and Troi

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 7:05 am

I was going  to mention them too, but I figured I'd stick to Human characters. Pretty much ALL the women on Star Trek got their groove on.


 


I wonder if there's anything in the bible about having sex with alien species?  Sex with same sex human: Bad. Sex with Klingon: Good?

willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this Jun. 17 2013, 7:40 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 17 2013, 7:05 am

>

>I was going  to mention them too, but I figured I'd stick to Human characters. Pretty much ALL the women on Star Trek got their groove on.

>I wonder if there's anything in the bible about having sex with alien species?  Sex with same sex human: Bad. Sex with Klingon: Good?

>


LOL


but if you believe in a supreme being that created all life and controlls the universe then that same logic would suggest that the supreme being also created any other alien species that might be out there so maybe the religious folk would be cool with banging a Klingon....as long as it's the oposite gender


I have honestly often wondered how religious folk would handle it if we actually made contact with an alien species.

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 7:54 am

You can have scales, fins, three eyes or be a Horta. As long as you put the right thing into the right hole.



As far as first contact, I have always held the notion that aliens species that are capable of interstellar travel  have the technology to observe other species.  If you're that advanced, you have to have the sense enough to do research before just showing up (much like Vulcans did) and avoid Earth at all costs.


Alien Bob: Hey, George, do you want to go to Earth? I hear they have something called "bacon" that's really good.


Alien George: Are you crazy Bob!? Did you see the last video feed we got back from our observation satellite?? *shows images of current wars, politicians and Real Housewives* Those people are dangerous! They're animals! They kill each other for fun! They HATE each other!


Alien Bob: But....bacon?


I'd love to have an alien species land here that has no concept of gender. Or maybe many genders. At least seven different kinds to make things interesting.


Remember Alien Nation? They had that whole process of conception that involved three people and both the male and female carried the unborn at one point.


 


 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this Jun. 17 2013, 7:56 am

They would handle it by saying that they were a trick of their devil or a sign of the end times.

Ethics are arbitrary.

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 9:30 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 17 2013, 7:54 am

>

>You can have scales, fins, three eyes or be a Horta. As long as you put the right thing into the right hole.

>

>As far as first contact, I have always held the notion that aliens species that are capable of interstellar travel  have the technology to observe other species.  If you're that advanced, you have to have the sense enough to do research before just showing up (much like Vulcans did) and avoid Earth at all costs.

>Alien Bob: Hey, George, do you want to go to Earth? I hear they have something called "bacon" that's really good.

>Alien George: Are you crazy Bob!? Did you see the last video feed we got back from our observation satellite?? *shows images of current wars, politicians and Real Housewives* Those people are dangerous! They're animals! They kill each other for fun! They HATE each other!

>Alien Bob: But....bacon?

>I'd love to have an alien species land here that has no concept of gender. Or maybe many genders. At least seven different kinds to make things interesting.

>Remember Alien Nation? They had that whole process of conception that involved three people and both the male and female carried the unborn at one point.


oh yeah, I remember that show! there was a thing in that show about humans mating with the aliens and they had to take classes on how to do it so the aliens wouldn't hurt them


 


but as far as real life...I've always said that if there is a species out there capable of building a ship advanced enough to get here, then we would hold no interest to them unless they need us for food or they need our planet for resources.

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 9:50 am

I concur.  If aliens show up in our lifetime, we're frakked. 

crellmoset

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Report this Jun. 17 2013, 10:02 am

Not necessarily. There's speculation that a species capable of developing a ship that could actually get here would have to be very intelligent, social, cooperative, and not violent since war might sap away the resources and time necessary to become capable of ftl travel. It might not be the most likely scenario but there's still a good chance that any alien species to actually get here would be relatively peaceful and philosophical.

Ethics are arbitrary.

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