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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 8:31 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 1:11 pm

Quote: Catholic.Fan @ Jul. 18 2013, 12:59 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:51 am

>

>

>

>In the christian religion it's ok to sodomize a boy too. The church tends to look the other way when there are cases of priests molesting boys.

>

 

You're way out of line on this comment.  It might not do much, but this one has been reported.

She's partially correct in this instance.  Many people in the some churches looked the other way when this happened in the past.  That doesn't mean it was "ok" as she said, but sometimes it wasn't dealt with as it should have been.


No, she's totally wrong.  IT IS NOT OK, EVER, TO SEXUALLY ABUSE A CHILD.  IT IS NOT PART OF ANY CHRISTIAN RELIGION. 


The Catholic Church (and other churches, as well as schools, the Boy Scouts, other youth organizations, etc.), had people who sexually abused children, specifically some of the priests and teachers.  Some of the bishops covered up and protected these pedophiles.  The vast majority of lay Catholics, priests, and nuns are innocent. 


"Sodomizing boys," is not an instituted part of ANY Christian denomination to my knowledge.  Heck, I can't think of any existing mainstream religion where that would be ok. 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 8:35 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 1:03 pm

Quote: Catholic.Fan @ Jul. 18 2013, 12:59 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:51 am

>

>

>

>In the christian religion it's ok to sodomize a boy too. The church tends to look the other way when there are cases of priests molesting boys.

>

You're way out of line on this comment.  It might not do much, but this one has been reported.

can't face a fact of your own religion? or do you deny that this happens?


The abuse had nothing to do with the religion.  It had to do with some sick pedophiles and some criminal bishops.  It is not an instituted part of the Catholic Faith and it never was.


You should be very ashamed of yourself.  I thought you were better than that.  Picking on Catholics and infertile couples for a stupid online argument.  Whatever.  Anyone who says stuff like that isn't a tolerant and good person in my book. 


Dr. H


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Catholic.Fan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 76

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 9:57 pm

The truth is, the message of tolerance is a lie; it always has been.  Tolerance requires a basic modicum of respect between opposing parties, and one need only glance through this pitiable thread to see no such thing exists.  


There is no doubt that people on both sides do wrong in this debate.  The kid that spray paints "Tastes like hate" on the side of a Chik-fil-a is just as wrong as the Westboro Baptist who boycotts a soldier's funeral with anti-gay slogans.  There will never be true tolerance because there will always be people willing to cross the line of respect.  See, it's not the message that's disrespectful; it's the delivery.  I can debate homosexuality being sinful or pedophile priests all day as long as the conversation is respectful of the people involved.  When one side lowers themselves to name-calling, generalized slander, or outright disinformation, the debate has ended.  There is no more meeting of the minds; there is just mindless emotional jabs.  


Tolerance isn't this laudy goal that society has made it out to be.  Tolerance is basically one step above open conflict, which is why it so often fails.  It's also grossly misunderstood and frequently abused as a weapon against the unwary.


I'm intolerant of certain actions, but that does not mean I can or should be disprespectful of the way I talk to another person.  

MCB

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 10:24 pm


I do not like this discussion, but I have to say something : I'm an atheist raised catholic, but it is not because I fear some supernatural punishement or because of the religious values of the society I live in that I know to not lie, steal or kill. It is because I am a human being with a conscious mind. I would not like it if someone did these things to me, so I do not do them to my fellow human beings.



In Star Trek, it is fine to apply the Prime Directive to Alien Societies, but it cannot be applied the same way to humans, because all human beings are human, and what can hurt a group of human beings can hurt all human beings. To excuse some behaviors with religion or culture is relativism, and that is very wrong, because it is not true that everything is equal. So it is the duty of humans to put a stop to intolerance and injustice.



There are differences among people, and those differences should be respected, as showed in the Star Trek Universe. The intolerant, ignorant and closed-minded views expressed by some on this tread are appalling. Some homosexuals want the right to marry for many reasons, one of them being, no doubt, to be considered equals with heterosexuals. Please stop saying that marriage is the only path for people in love, it is not. For those who choose it, it should be legal to do it, no matter there gender. IDIC to you all.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 19 2013, 5:01 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jul. 18 2013, 8:31 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 1:11 pm

Quote: Catholic.Fan @ Jul. 18 2013, 12:59 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:51 am

>

>

>

>

>In the christian religion it's ok to sodomize a boy too. The church tends to look the other way when there are cases of priests molesting boys.

>

 

You're way out of line on this comment.  It might not do much, but this one has been reported.

She's partially correct in this instance.  Many people in the some churches looked the other way when this happened in the past.  That doesn't mean it was "ok" as she said, but sometimes it wasn't dealt with as it should have been.

No, she's totally wrong.  IT IS NOT OK, EVER, TO SEXUALLY ABUSE A CHILD.  IT IS NOT PART OF ANY CHRISTIAN RELIGION. 

The Catholic Church (and other churches, as well as schools, the Boy Scouts, other youth organizations, etc.), had people who sexually abused children, specifically some of the priests and teachers.  Some of the bishops covered up and protected these pedophiles.  The vast majority of lay Catholics, priests, and nuns are innocent. 

"Sodomizing boys," is not an instituted part of ANY Christian denomination to my knowledge.  Heck, I can't think of any existing mainstream religion where that would be ok. 


I never said it was ok or that it was part of the religion. I only said that it happend and that the higher ups look the other way about it

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 19 2013, 5:03 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jul. 18 2013, 8:35 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 1:03 pm

Quote: Catholic.Fan @ Jul. 18 2013, 12:59 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:51 am

>

>

>

>

>In the christian religion it's ok to sodomize a boy too. The church tends to look the other way when there are cases of priests molesting boys.

>

You're way out of line on this comment.  It might not do much, but this one has been reported.

can't face a fact of your own religion? or do you deny that this happens?

The abuse had nothing to do with the religion.  It had to do with some sick pedophiles and some criminal bishops.  It is not an instituted part of the Catholic Faith and it never was.

You should be very ashamed of yourself.  I thought you were better than that.  Picking on Catholics and infertile couples for a stupid online argument.  Whatever.  Anyone who says stuff like that isn't a tolerant and good person in my book. 

Dr. H

 


Again I never said it was part of the religion, just that it happens. I wasn't "picking" on infertile couples I was only extending the argument about marriage being solely about procreation as was claimed. I apolgize if it was insulting

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46314

Report this Jul. 19 2013, 1:36 pm

Government's view of "tolerance" in this issue:


http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/military-will-not-rescind-reprimand-for-airman-opposed-to-gay-marriage.html


- reprimand


- loss of medical care


- change of contract


- intimidation


 


 


I am so glad I'm no longer in the military.... not being allowed religious beliefs is quite anti-Constitutional.

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 19 2013, 2:10 pm

 


 


  


There is no doubt that people on both sides do wrong in this debate.  The kid that spray paints "Tastes like hate" on the side of a Chik-fil-a is just as wrong as the Westboro Baptist who boycotts a soldier's funeral with anti-gay slogans.  There will never be true tolerance because there will always be people willing to cross the line of respect.  See, it's not the message that's disrespectful; it's the delivery.  I can debate homosexuality being sinful or pedophile priests all day as long as the conversation is respectful of the people involved.  When one side lowers themselves to name-calling, generalized slander, or outright disinformation, the debate has ended.  There is no more meeting of the minds; there is just mindless emotional jabs.  


 


I'm intolerant of certain actions, but that does not mean I can or should be disprespectful of the way I talk to another person.  


Quoted for truth.  Catholic.Fan, you're one of the most level-headed, rational, and most civil posters I've encountered on these boards.  I admire you sir!


You're right, some people here aren't tolerant.  Some say they're for tolerance, but they really don't get what it really takes to be a tolerant person and they don't practice what they preach.   It takes empathy.  It takes civility.  It takes respect.   


RS


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 19 2013, 2:37 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 19 2013, 5:01 am

>

>I never said it was ok or that it was part of the religion. I only said that it happend and that the higher ups look the other way about it

>


willowtree: "In the christian religion it's ok to sodomize a boy too."


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 10054

Report this Jul. 19 2013, 3:00 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 19 2013, 5:03 am

>

> I wasn't "picking" on infertile couples I was only extending the argument about marriage being solely about procreation as was claimed. I apolgize if it was insulting

>


You shouldn't have gone there.  You should have been more sensitive.  I hope you never ever have to go through what an infertile couple, not to mention a gay or lesbian couple, has to go through to have biological children.  It is a incredibly painful and anxiety-ridden process. 


 


 


     


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

Serrano

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 30

Report this Jul. 20 2013, 2:15 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 13 2013, 11:18 am



Supposedly in a cut scene from TNG it was to be shown that one of the officers was gay. Hawk I think it was...the guy who went with Picard and Worf to the deflector dish.



That Mr. Hawk (I don't recall his rank) was assimilated by the Borg is consistant with what happens to Gay characters in cinema.

When asked if I saw the film Philadelphia I asked,
"Does he die?"
When given the answer, "Well, yea." I said, "Screw that."

The list of suffering Gay characters is substantial: Milk, The Hours,  Black Swan, Brokeback Mountain, A Single Man and Monster, are the most recent of a list that reaches .

Had Mr Hawk been Gay it would not to me have been a landmark event.

It would have been what most major Hollywood films have been. An oppertunity for liberal viewers to feel sorry for an oppressed group and would give homophobes the chance to say, "Look out Worf! Don't let the Brog faggot assimilate you!"

In other words a win win.

In a 11 June 2013 Guardian piece James Rawson observed,

"Since (the movie) Philadelphia there have been, by my count, 257 Academy Award-nominated portrayals of heterosexual characters, and 23 of gay, bisexual or transsexual characters. Of the heterosexual characters, 16.5% (59) die. Of the LGBT characters, 56.5% (13) die. Of the 10 LGBT characters who live, only four get happy endings. That's four characters in 19 years."

Star Trek does not and never has been immune to the prejudices that exist amonge the people in Hollywood who have the money producers and directors need to create art. And controversy is something that producers and investors prefer to avoid.

I don't think it's possible for a Gay character to be added to a Star Trek film without generating controversy. I accept that. What matters to me is whether the depiction is in keeping with Rodenburys philosophy.
Gene Roddenbury wanted a women in the captains chair. He finally did get his vision seen but not untill The Next Generation. I'm sure he would have gotten Gay people added to his all inclusive, diversity appreciative future.

I'm sure there were defections from the fandom when a Black man was put in charge of Deep Space 9.
But if he or any other crew member was Gay, forget about it!
The thought of hot same sex action would be too much for a vocal minority to handle. (Unless it was hot female same sex action.)


Keep your hailing frequencies open.

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this Jul. 20 2013, 6:55 pm

In unrelated news, Andrew Garfield who is playing Spidey in the Amazing Spiderman reboot, wants the webslinger to "go gay" in the sequel and hook up with a black dude.


Source:http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/07/10/andrew-garfield-spider-man-gay/


Now, that would be a significant departure for the character whose never been gay in any of the cartoon or live-action incarnations. He's always been a romantic hetero-Betty, Mary Jane Watson, Gwen Stacy, Felicia Hardy.


Compared to placing a gay character on Trek, I would say this idea is seriously a violation of the character's identity.

darmokattanagra

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 386

Report this Jul. 20 2013, 8:24 pm

"Homosexuals are deviant freaks of nature on par with child molesters. They should not be represented on Star Trek and they should not be allowed to marry because the purpose of marriage is to procreate and they cannot have children. I don't care if you find that insulting, it's part of my religion. In fact, you're insulting me by not respecting my beliefs. As for applying my 'logic' to infertile couples and implying that Christians approve of pedophilia because the Catholic church keeps looking the other way when priests sodomize little boys, how dare you?! Can't you be civil? If you're going to resort to name-calling and disinformation then the debate is over."

Catholic.Fan

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 76

Report this Jul. 20 2013, 9:38 pm

Your attempt to summarize and merge divergent viewpoints is mildly amusing, but ultimately in vain.  I find the comparison between homosexuals and pedophiles not only weak, but insulting and hurtful in the extreme.  The fact that someone lashed out by referring to the problems of pedophilia within the Catholic Church was not unexpected.  That doesn't make their statement that we think it "ok" appropriate.  Frankly, the first time someone made the comparison between LGBT and pedos, that post should have been duly reported for its inappropriateness and the poster called into shame for their disprespectful tone.


These debates rarely end well because there is so much emotion tied to it.  Not only that, but people are woefully misinformed about the various positions of the opposing parties, including their own.  I had been working on a post this week about how badly most people seem to grasp what's really being argued here, but I couldn't find a way to put it without risk of condescension.  The fact that pedophelia was brought into this thread, and argued at length, just goes to show how poorly some people's reasoning can run and how easily other, well-meaning people can be dragged into a line of thinking that has no virtue to the conversation.  


As to your comments about insult, darmokattanagra, I am not nor have been insulted in the least.  I will gladly discuss any topic, my beliefs included, as long as the conversation remains civil.  I expect the same from others as I expect from myself.  We may have a basic right to freedom of speech, but intelligent debate is a privilege that demands respect from both parties.  I see very little value in engaging with someone when sole purpose in a post is to enflame or degrade, and I will not indulge aggressive adversity.  


If you see wrong committed, as in the suggestions equating homosexuality to pedophelia, then I challenge you to do the right thing for the debate.  Instead of resorting to mere mockery or satire, tell people they are wrong and why.  The comment on pedophelia was 5 days ago, and while some rightly attempted to correct such ignorance, your only response was to call them trolls and move on.  


If you care about the topic at hand, do better.  That's what I'm trying to do.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this Aug. 01 2013, 5:22 am

“If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?” - Pope Francis


 


BOOM!


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