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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

MCB

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 23

Report this Jul. 17 2013, 10:58 pm


I have just spent hours reading all the posts on this board and I can't beleive the intolerance of some people who call themselves Star Trek fans. Would you please take your conversation about god elsewhere ? I would not mind seeing an LGBT character on Star Trek but I would prefer that no mention be made of the person's sexual orientation. We would just notice it like we would notice the furniture in the room, because I think that a person's sexual orientation does not matter in the Star Trek Universe. It would not need to be mentioned anymore than the color of people's eyes.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 5:26 am

Quote: trollic @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:59 pm

>

>A possibility that is not often considered for why some atheists have morals is that they were taught to have morals by someone who WAS religious.  If your parents and grandparents or even further back did not have religion, you might be a very different person today.  There are people that don't do some things for fear of disappointing their creator.  That person might pass morals in line with his faith to his children and his children may grow up to be atheists.... but those atheists could have a set of morals left over from religion. 

>


this is just plain ignorant and obnoxious


morals don't come from religion. I don't think something is wrong because of a fear of eternal punishment, I think it's wrong becaus I think it's wrong. I don't kill, cheat, steal, lie, etc because I personally think it's wrong. My parents were not religious in any way, we never went to any church or temple, their parents were not religious in any way and never went to any church or temple. In fact my paternal grandfather and maternal grandmother were orphaned durring ww2 and were raised in orphanages where they DEFINATELY were not taught any religion. Despite that these people are the kindest loving people I have ever seen. They have morals and they definately did not come from religion


 


maybe YOUR morals come from religion, but not everyone's come from religion. In my opinion it takes away from somthing to say that the only reason you don't do something is for fear of upsetting a god.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 5:29 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:39 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:16 pm

>

>some people are born gay

>and we are far from the top lifeform on this planet. if you take away our technology we would be on the bottom of the food chain
You keep saying that, but that goes against nature's mandate as explained above.

Technology (science) is a product of our minds.  Our minds, and the products thereof, makes us the top.  (I didn't say physically largest or strongest.)


I will repeat what I posted because you seem to have not read it. If you take away our technology, we are at the bottom of the food chain.


and yes, despite your opinion to the contrary, some people are born gay.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 5:31 am

Quote: MCB @ Jul. 17 2013, 10:58 pm

>

>I have just spent hours reading all the posts on this board and I can't beleive the intolerance of some people who call themselves Star Trek fans. Would you please take your conversation about god elsewhere ? I would not mind seeing an LGBT character on Star Trek but I would prefer that no mention be made of the person's sexual orientation. We would just notice it like we would notice the furniture in the room, because I think that a person's sexual orientation does not matter in the Star Trek Universe. It would not need to be mentioned anymore than the color of people's eyes.

>


I think in a generation or two that's what will actually be. Being gay, same sex marriage will be so ordinary, that it won't be an issue, it won't be talked about any more than a man and a woman getting married.

trollic

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 8:34 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 5:26 am

Quote: trollic @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:59 pm

>

>

>A possibility that is not often considered for why some atheists have morals is that they were taught to have morals by someone who WAS religious.  If your parents and grandparents or even further back did not have religion, you might be a very different person today.  There are people that don't do some things for fear of disappointing their creator.  That person might pass morals in line with his faith to his children and his children may grow up to be atheists.... but those atheists could have a set of morals left over from religion. 

>

this is just plain ignorant and obnoxious

morals don't come from religion. I don't think something is wrong because of a fear of eternal punishment, I think it's wrong becaus I think it's wrong. I don't kill, cheat, steal, lie, etc because I personally think it's wrong. My parents were not religious in any way, we never went to any church or temple, their parents were not religious in any way and never went to any church or temple. In fact my paternal grandfather and maternal grandmother were orphaned durring ww2 and were raised in orphanages where they DEFINATELY were not taught any religion. Despite that these people are the kindest loving people I have ever seen. They have morals and they definately did not come from religion

 

maybe YOUR morals come from religion, but not everyone's come from religion. In my opinion it takes away from somthing to say that the only reason you don't do something is for fear of upsetting a god.


 


I'm sorry to break this to you, but your morals are most likey a result of religion.  Throughout the world, morality varies.  In some parts of africa, it's ok to sodimize a boy.  In some parts of the middle east, it's ok to beat a woman for showing her neck, etc.  The USA was influenced by Christianity and the laws we put in place and the morals that resulting from them were directly influenced by Christianity since it was THE biggest religion around.  Now, you mentioned that you and your parents are not religious... yet they still live in a society which values things based on Christian morals, so if they didn't get their morals directly from religion, they got them from their surroundings... which were based on Christian morals.  If you were born in afghanistan you would not have the same set of morals you do today. 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 10:19 am

Quote: MCB @ Jul. 17 2013, 10:58 pm

>

>I have just spent hours reading all the posts on this board and I can't beleive the intolerance of some people who call themselves Star Trek fans. Would you please take your conversation about god elsewhere ?
That's really "tolerant" of you.... 


 


Why is it that "tolderance" only goes one way?  Why must religious accept the anti-religious or be called "intolerant", etc... but the anti-religious refusing to accept religoius isn't considered "intolerant" (or any of the other names we're called.)????

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 10:24 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 5:29 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:39 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:16 pm

>

>

>some people are born gay

>and we are far from the top lifeform on this planet. if you take away our technology we would be on the bottom of the food chain
You keep saying that, but that goes against nature's mandate as explained above.

Technology (science) is a product of our minds.  Our minds, and the products thereof, makes us the top.  (I didn't say physically largest or strongest.)

I will repeat what I posted because you seem to have not read it. If you take away our technology, we are at the bottom of the food chain.

and yes, despite your opinion to the contrary, some people are born gay.

It's interesting that you make statements without any supporting documentation and then expect us to take it at face value.  Just because I write something you don't like doesn't mean I didn't read what you wrote and responded accordingly.


Even if you take aay our current technology, we'd still be at the top because of our brains.  We may not be the fastest or strongest in the animal kingdom, but we're the smartest.


And you keep asserting the same thing.... without proof.  Use the scientific method.  I've already provided you with informaiton and while you have disagreed, you can't contradict it with actual data.  The bottom line here is that you have an opinion that you accept as fact without any scientific proof.  But... that's your choice.  I don't think that way.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 10:51 am

Quote: trollic @ Jul. 18 2013, 8:34 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 5:26 am

Quote: trollic @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:59 pm

>

>

>

>A possibility that is not often considered for why some atheists have morals is that they were taught to have morals by someone who WAS religious.  If your parents and grandparents or even further back did not have religion, you might be a very different person today.  There are people that don't do some things for fear of disappointing their creator.  That person might pass morals in line with his faith to his children and his children may grow up to be atheists.... but those atheists could have a set of morals left over from religion. 

>

this is just plain ignorant and obnoxious

morals don't come from religion. I don't think something is wrong because of a fear of eternal punishment, I think it's wrong becaus I think it's wrong. I don't kill, cheat, steal, lie, etc because I personally think it's wrong. My parents were not religious in any way, we never went to any church or temple, their parents were not religious in any way and never went to any church or temple. In fact my paternal grandfather and maternal grandmother were orphaned durring ww2 and were raised in orphanages where they DEFINATELY were not taught any religion. Despite that these people are the kindest loving people I have ever seen. They have morals and they definately did not come from religion

 

maybe YOUR morals come from religion, but not everyone's come from religion. In my opinion it takes away from somthing to say that the only reason you don't do something is for fear of upsetting a god.

 

I'm sorry to break this to you, but your morals are most likey a result of religion.  Throughout the world, morality varies.  In some parts of africa, it's ok to sodimize a boy.  In some parts of the middle east, it's ok to beat a woman for showing her neck, etc.  The USA was influenced by Christianity and the laws we put in place and the morals that resulting from them were directly influenced by Christianity since it was THE biggest religion around.  Now, you mentioned that you and your parents are not religious... yet they still live in a society which values things based on Christian morals, so if they didn't get their morals directly from religion, they got them from their surroundings... which were based on Christian morals.  If you were born in afghanistan you would not have the same set of morals you do today. 


In the christian religion it's ok to sodomize a boy too. The church tends to look the other way when there are cases of priests molesting boys.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 10:53 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:24 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 5:29 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:39 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 17 2013, 1:16 pm

>

>

>

>some people are born gay

>and we are far from the top lifeform on this planet. if you take away our technology we would be on the bottom of the food chain
You keep saying that, but that goes against nature's mandate as explained above.

Technology (science) is a product of our minds.  Our minds, and the products thereof, makes us the top.  (I didn't say physically largest or strongest.)

I will repeat what I posted because you seem to have not read it. If you take away our technology, we are at the bottom of the food chain.

and yes, despite your opinion to the contrary, some people are born gay.

It's interesting that you make statements without any supporting documentation and then expect us to take it at face value.  Just because I write something you don't like doesn't mean I didn't read what you wrote and responded accordingly.

Even if you take aay our current technology, we'd still be at the top because of our brains.  We may not be the fastest or strongest in the animal kingdom, but we're the smartest.

And you keep asserting the same thing.... without proof.  Use the scientific method.  I've already provided you with informaiton and while you have disagreed, you can't contradict it with actual data.  The bottom line here is that you have an opinion that you accept as fact without any scientific proof.  But... that's your choice.  I don't think that way.


being smart won't matter when a hungry lion is chasing you. Most large hunting animals are faster, stronger, can run longer than the average person, and they have claws and teeth as weapons. A person would have to stop and find something and construct a weapon giving the chasing animal time to overtake you.


just because you disagree with me and can't see past your religion doesn't mean what I say is false.

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 10:55 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:19 am

Quote: MCB @ Jul. 17 2013, 10:58 pm

>

>

>I have just spent hours reading all the posts on this board and I can't beleive the intolerance of some people who call themselves Star Trek fans. Would you please take your conversation about god elsewhere ?
That's really "tolerant" of you.... 

 

Why is it that "tolderance" only goes one way?  Why must religious accept the anti-religious or be called "intolerant", etc... but the anti-religious refusing to accept religoius isn't considered "intolerant" (or any of the other names we're called.)????


because most of the time it's the religious folk who are acting intolerant. It's usually the religious ones who are throwing names out at the non religious peole.


just look a few posts back, I was accused of not having any morals by a religious person

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 11:06 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:55 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:19 am

Quote: MCB @ Jul. 17 2013, 10:58 pm

>

>

>

>I have just spent hours reading all the posts on this board and I can't beleive the intolerance of some people who call themselves Star Trek fans. Would you please take your conversation about god elsewhere ?
That's really "tolerant" of you.... 

 

Why is it that "tolderance" only goes one way?  Why must religious accept the anti-religious or be called "intolerant", etc... but the anti-religious refusing to accept religoius isn't considered "intolerant" (or any of the other names we're called.)????

because most of the time it's the religious folk who are acting intolerant. It's usually the religious ones who are throwing names out at the non religious peole.

just look a few posts back, I was accused of not having any morals by a religious person

Because you consider the oposing view as "intolerant."


Remember who was calling who names?


 


This is the area I find as quite interesting.  As I mentioned a few pages back, I have some LGBT acquaintances who are quite upset with others in the LGBT community.  Why?  Because the duplicity of the tolerance view (which I alluded to a few pages back.)  Tolerance isn't only one way.  When someone calls someone else intolerant, does it only mean that they're just not agreeing with the accuser?  Is the accuser being tolerant of the other's views?  In the case of this thread, which group is screaming "intolerant" while calling the opposing view names?

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 11:11 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 11:06 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:55 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 10:19 am

Quote: MCB @ Jul. 17 2013, 10:58 pm

>

>

>

>

>I have just spent hours reading all the posts on this board and I can't beleive the intolerance of some people who call themselves Star Trek fans. Would you please take your conversation about god elsewhere ?
That's really "tolerant" of you.... 

 

Why is it that "tolderance" only goes one way?  Why must religious accept the anti-religious or be called "intolerant", etc... but the anti-religious refusing to accept religoius isn't considered "intolerant" (or any of the other names we're called.)????

because most of the time it's the religious folk who are acting intolerant. It's usually the religious ones who are throwing names out at the non religious peole.

just look a few posts back, I was accused of not having any morals by a religious person

Because you consider the oposing view as "intolerant."

Remember who was calling who names?

 

This is the area I find as quite interesting.  As I mentioned a few pages back, I have some LGBT acquaintances who are quite upset with others in the LGBT community.  Why?  Because the duplicity of the tolerance view (which I alluded to a few pages back.)  Tolerance isn't only one way.  When someone calls someone else intolerant, does it only mean that they're just not agreeing with the accuser?  Is the accuser being tolerant of the other's views?  In the case of this thread, it's been pretty much one sided who's doing the name calling.


I consider a viewpoint that denies certain people basic rights as intolerant. What names have I called you?

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 11:17 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 11:11 am

>I consider a viewpoint that denies certain people basic rights as intolerant. What names have I called you?
I wasn't talking about you specifically (and you know it.)  While our discussions are "heated", I don't think you've been nasty.


Deny rights?  What rights?  How about the right of religion?  Or speech?  (Remember, religious people are the ones being told to shut up and leave.)  Religious people are the ones being attacked by governments and by lawsuits only for exercising their beliefs.  Why is it that religious rights must be destroyed?

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 11:47 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 18 2013, 11:17 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 11:11 am

>

>I consider a viewpoint that denies certain people basic rights as intolerant. What names have I called you?
I wasn't talking about you specifically (and you know it.)  While our discussions are "heated", I don't think you've been nasty.

Deny rights?  What rights?  How about the right of religion?  Or speech?  (Remember, religious people are the ones being told to shut up and leave.)  Religious people are the ones being attacked by governments and by lawsuits only for exercising their beliefs.  Why is it that religious rights must be destroyed?


the right of two gay people to get married.... I find those who would deny two people that right, intolerant.


can you please explain to me how religious people are being attacked?


 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Jul. 18 2013, 12:22 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 18 2013, 11:47 am

>the right of two gay people to get married.... I find those who would deny two people that right, intolerant.

>can you please explain to me how religious people are being attacked?
Question: Why should two gay people want to get married?  What is the function of marriage?  (I actually answered this before.)  Oh... and remember that a "right" is irrespective of government or location.


I'm curious... why isn't it considered "intolerant" of gays demanding a church to marry them when the church believes otherwise?  Or demanding people to agree with them when they don't?


 


You can't see religious people being attacked?  Not even here with the name calling?  WOW!!!!  How about Obamacare demanding religious institutions to fund abortion?  How about all the times the Obama administration talks badly about Christianity?  How about the arresting of people for praying in public?  How about a lawsuit against Arlene's Flowers and Gifts for exercising their religious convictions in not participating in a gay wedding.  Or a baker in Denver who didn't want to particpate by selling a wedding cake to support a gay wedding?  And another one in Oregon.... Or kids being suspended from government schools for praying silently over their food?  I could go on and on and on.... and you can find many if you want searching for them.  So much for the freedom of religion.


 


Could you imagine me going into a Muslim butcher shop and demand bacon and then call them "intolerant" for refusing to fill my idiotic demand?  Or go into a Muslim mosque and demand that they perform a Christian event or let a woman preacher teach?  Or go to a Pagan or Wiccan festival and demand that they accomodate something that is an afront to their beliefs?

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