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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:10 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:04 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 10:51 am

>

>If you don't like what the school is teaching then put your kids in a different school. There are a million religious beliefs out there. SOMEONE will always be offended by something. If you're so religious that you think that public school contradicts your religious views, then put your kids in a religious school.
I'm not talking about being offended.  Nobody has the right not to be offended.

So you want to penalize me for being religious by making me pay twice for my kids' education?

But I think you're missing the bigger picture of what I'm trying to say.... the government is using my tax money to attack religion, which is just as wrong as the government using our tax money to use religion to attack people.  Both are just as dangerous.

See... I think the best teachers teach the children the critical thinking skills necessary to figure things out themselves.... while the teacher's own beliefs are not shown.  Best teacher I had made us understand as many views on a subject as possible and argue them as if we believed them.  In history, we had to argue the British's side of the US Revolution in addition to the colonists.  We had to know and make arguements for both the Union and Conferate states during the Civil War.


you're seeing an attack where there is none. That's your issue. Can you give me an example of what you consider an attack on religion that is being taught today.


I think that if you want religion taught to your child, then you should send your child to a religious school. It's not my fault or my problem that they choose to charge a fortune

bunkey

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:14 am

Shouldn't religous education be provided free by churches if it's such a big deal? 

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:18 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:10 am

>you're seeing an attack where there is none. That's your issue. Can you give me an example of what you consider an attack on religion that is being taught today.

>I think that if you want religion taught to your child, then you should send your child to a religious school. It's not my fault or my problem that they choose to charge a fortune
Just because you don't see an attack doesn't mean that it doesn't happen - most likely because of your views.  If a teacher comes out and says that LGBT is wrong, I'm sure someone from that community would consider that an attack.


Let's take for example evolution vs. creationism...  Many religious people believe only in creationism and consider evolution an attack on their religion as some ways of teaching religion teach there is no God.  Or reverse it and teaching only creationism to an athiest.  Same with the current subject - they go against the beliefs of their religion.


Why should a government funded school be allowed to teach things that are very much the opposite of the religion of the citizen?


As for the costs of the private schools - you missed the point... (aside from the fact that many private schools are actually cheaper than the costs of a government ran school) - why should I have to pay tax dollars for government schools and then have to pay for school again so the kids aren't attacked?

crellmoset

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:19 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:06 am

Quote: crellmoset @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:01 am

>

>That's perfectly okay. I'm not digging around through your conspiracies. You made an assertion, you refused to provide proof despite you being the person making the claim. We'll always know you as a liar now.
so you refuse to do research to support your assertion in order to claim someone else is at fault?  I gave you the information necessary, but you didn't like it.  That's okay - you've confirmed what I thought about you a while back.  Oh well.

You made a crackpot assertion that schools are "encouraging" the gay "lifestyle". The burden of proof lies with you, not those who can tell that you're lying, throwing around anecdotes, and trying to twist yourself off the hook, liar.


 


 


Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:23 am

Funny, I live in NYC and I haven't heard a peep about this school. I watch several news broadcasts during the day, all local, all of which would have run with a story like this.  Nothing. Nada. ZILCH. Oh but it was picked up by Fox News. HUGE shocker right there. 


 


So more lies. 

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:28 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:18 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:10 am

>

>you're seeing an attack where there is none. That's your issue. Can you give me an example of what you consider an attack on religion that is being taught today.

>I think that if you want religion taught to your child, then you should send your child to a religious school. It's not my fault or my problem that they choose to charge a fortune
Just because you don't see an attack doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.  Let's take for example evolution vs. creationism...  Many religious people believe only in creationism and consider evolution an attack on their religion as some ways of teaching religion teach there is no God.  Same with the current subject - they go against the beliefs of their religion.  Some scho

Why should a government funded school be allowed to teach things that are very much the opposite of the religion of the citizen?

As for the costs of the private schools - you missed the point... (aside from the fact that many private schools are actually cheaper than the costs of a government ran school) - why should I have to pay tax dollars for government schools and then have to pay for school again so the kids aren't attacked?


well evolution is a fact of nature. It happened, it is happening,  it will continue to happen as long as there is life. It is just as much a fact of nature as gravity. There is concrete testable, observable evidence. A religious belief does not overrride a fact of nature. What if your religion taught that the earth was flat? should schools never mention the earth being round despite the FACT that it is?


most people who believe that evolution is an attack on creationism are under the false belief that evolution deals with origins of life, which it DOES not


 


Why should a government funded school be allowed to teach things that are very much the opposite of the religion of the citizen?


1, there is a separation of church and state...2, which religion and which citizens are you refering too?


 


why should I have to pay tax dollars for government schools and then have to pay for school again so the kids aren't attacked?


1, then don't pay taxes and deal with that....2, kids aren't attacked,  you're imagining it to suit your religious belief

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:42 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:28 am

>well evolution is a fact of nature. It happened, it is happening,  it will continue to happen as long as there is life. It is just as much a fact of nature as gravity. There is concrete testable, observable evidence. A religious belief does not overrride a fact of nature. What if your religion taught that the earth was flat? should schools never mention the earth being round despite the FACT that it is?

>most people who believe that evolution is an attack on creationism are under the false belief that evolution deals with origins of life, which it DOES not

>Why should a government funded school be allowed to teach things that are very much the opposite of the religion of the citizen?

>1, there is a separation of church and state...2, which religion and which citizens are you refering too?

>why should I have to pay tax dollars for government schools and then have to pay for school again so the kids aren't attacked?

>1, then don't pay taxes and deal with that....2, kids aren't attacked,  you're imagining it to suit your religious belief

>
Depends on who's teaching it.  Some teachers use evolution as a way to teach that God doesn't exist because God said he created everything and evolution can be taught in a way that says He didn't.


Separation of Church & State.... Do you know where that actually comes from and it's historical context?  (Note: It's NOT in the Constitution).  And I'm refering to any religion that the government teaches things that are against that religion.  Example:  LGBT is against the teaching of multiple relgions, including Christianity and Islam.


 


And we'll just have to disagree on who's being attacked as it's a matter of perspective.  What one things as light, another thinks is heavy.  The tables could be turned in my favor somewhere and then you could, theoretically, be the one feeling the attack.

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:47 am

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:42 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:28 am

>

>well evolution is a fact of nature. It happened, it is happening,  it will continue to happen as long as there is life. It is just as much a fact of nature as gravity. There is concrete testable, observable evidence. A religious belief does not overrride a fact of nature. What if your religion taught that the earth was flat? should schools never mention the earth being round despite the FACT that it is?

>most people who believe that evolution is an attack on creationism are under the false belief that evolution deals with origins of life, which it DOES not

>Why should a government funded school be allowed to teach things that are very much the opposite of the religion of the citizen?

>1, there is a separation of church and state...2, which religion and which citizens are you refering too?

>why should I have to pay tax dollars for government schools and then have to pay for school again so the kids aren't attacked?

>1, then don't pay taxes and deal with that....2, kids aren't attacked,  you're imagining it to suit your religious belief

>
Depends on who's teaching it.  Some teachers use evolution as a way to teach that God doesn't exist because God said he created everything and evolution can be taught in a way that says He didn't.

Separation of Church & State.... Do you know where that actually comes from and it's historical context?  (Note: It's NOT in the Constitution).  And I'm refering to any religion that the government teaches things that are against that religion.  Example:  LGBT is against the teaching of multiple relgions, including Christianity and Islam.

 

And we'll just have to disagree on who's being attacked as it's a matter of perception.  The tables could be turned in my favor somewhere and then you could, theoretically, be the one feeling the attack.


no matter what someone says, it will be against one belief or another.


LGBT may be against a religion, but the fact is that there are gay people and that gay marriage is legal in some places. Teaching that is not promoting anything or pushing an agenda, it's simply a way of the world we live in. What if my religion stated that boys and girls can't sit in the same room together? Should all classrooms be segregated by gender to appease my religious beliefs?

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 11:58 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:47 am

>no matter what someone says, it will be against one belief or another.

>LGBT may be against a religion, but the fact is that there are gay people and that gay marriage is legal in some places. Teaching that is not promoting anything or pushing an agenda, it's simply a way of the world we live in. What if my religion stated that boys and girls can't sit in the same room together? Should all classrooms be segregated by gender to appease my religious beliefs?
You mean like some Muslims?  (Maybe that gender segregation is limited to not being allowed to sit next to someone of the opposite gender - I'm not sure.)  I think you're starting to get to a foundational issue.... Why should parents be forced to pay for things that are against them?  Why should the government be involved at all?  See... I believe that all schools should be privatized and parents allowed to send kids to the school of their choice - not what the government assigns.  This way, there's a lot of competition and schools actually try to meet the needs of the children with input from the parents.  No wasted tax dollars pushing programs that are against the familiies and religions.  If parents want to send their kid to a religious (or non-religous) school without getting a tax penalty, I think that's great!

willowtree

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 12:04 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:58 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:47 am

>

>no matter what someone says, it will be against one belief or another.

>LGBT may be against a religion, but the fact is that there are gay people and that gay marriage is legal in some places. Teaching that is not promoting anything or pushing an agenda, it's simply a way of the world we live in. What if my religion stated that boys and girls can't sit in the same room together? Should all classrooms be segregated by gender to appease my religious beliefs?
You mean like some Muslims?  (Maybe that gender segregation is limited to not being allowed to sit next to someone of the opposite gender - I'm not sure.)  I think you're starting to get to a foundational issue.... Why should parents be forced to pay for things that are against them?  Why should the government be involved at all?  See... I believe that all schools should be privatized and parents allowed to send kids to the school of their choice - not what the government assigns.  This way, there's a lot of competition and schools actually try to meet the needs of the children with input from the parents.  No wasted tax dollars pushing programs that are against the familiies and religions.  If parents want to send their kid to a religious (or non-religous) school without getting a tax penalty, I think that's great!


Parents CAN send their kids to the school of their choice. They can choose public school, private schools, or homeschool


it seems to me that YOU are the one trying to push an agenda. It seems to me that you're trying to push religion on schools.

crellmoset

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POSTS: 116

Report this Jul. 15 2013, 12:17 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 12:04 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:58 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 11:47 am

>

>

>no matter what someone says, it will be against one belief or another.

>LGBT may be against a religion, but the fact is that there are gay people and that gay marriage is legal in some places. Teaching that is not promoting anything or pushing an agenda, it's simply a way of the world we live in. What if my religion stated that boys and girls can't sit in the same room together? Should all classrooms be segregated by gender to appease my religious beliefs?
You mean like some Muslims?  (Maybe that gender segregation is limited to not being allowed to sit next to someone of the opposite gender - I'm not sure.)  I think you're starting to get to a foundational issue.... Why should parents be forced to pay for things that are against them?  Why should the government be involved at all?  See... I believe that all schools should be privatized and parents allowed to send kids to the school of their choice - not what the government assigns.  This way, there's a lot of competition and schools actually try to meet the needs of the children with input from the parents.  No wasted tax dollars pushing programs that are against the familiies and religions.  If parents want to send their kid to a religious (or non-religous) school without getting a tax penalty, I think that's great!

Parents CAN send their kids to the school of their choice. They can choose public school, private schools, or homeschool

it seems to me that YOU are the one trying to push an agenda. It seems to me that you're trying to push religion on schools.

They're a libertarianist troll. Now that we know just let it go, there's no point in arguing with this type of religious cultist. Sooner or later it will get bored and wander back to Ten Forward or stare wild eyed at Glenn Beck and tremble in righteous, free market rage.


 


 


Ethics are arbitrary.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 12:20 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jul. 15 2013, 12:04 pm

>Parents CAN send their kids to the school of their choice. They can choose public school, private schools, or homeschool

>it seems to me that YOU are the one trying to push an agenda. It seems to me that you're trying to push religion on schools.
Not quite.... Yes, people can send their kids to a non-government school... but be penalized... I want to remove that penalty.  I want people to be allowed more choices.  And I don't want any group of people to use the government to push their agenda on everyone else.


Of course I have an agenda ... everyone does.  I just don't hide it.  I don't slip something in and say it's not there.


No, I'm not trying to push religion on schools - I want people to be able to go to a religious, or non-religious (as I stated before) school of their choice without penalty.  (Although I do know God exists, you'd actually be surprised how non-religious I am.  History is replete with how religion can be used to cause a lot of harm.)

bunkey

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 12:46 pm

He oughta get along great with the dude who plays Soval.


 


trollic

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 4:56 pm

I think a captain who has pedo needs but refuses to act on them is just as valid as a gay character.  Both seen deviant by society, both born that way, etc.  In some alien cultures it's probably perfectly normal for 50 years olds and 5 year olds to get together.  Why push YOUR morality onto the show right?  Amiright?  You see, the problem with going deviant, is you don't know when to stop.  One person may like beastilality, but another might think it's disgusting.  For that same reason, we should avoid going gay and stick to the mainstream forumula that works.  I would be totally happy if they simply avoided ALL romancec in Trek and make stories out of other topics which there are no shortage of. 


I'm a paying customer.  I buy the dvds, watch the movies, buy the shirts, etc.  If Trek goes gay, I say no way.  Me, and others like me (who make up a larger percetage of viewers than gays, believe it) will simply look for the next best thing, and that's something that the studio fears and is right to fear.  They gotta get paid right.  If they're smart, they will continue on as usual and find new and fresh ideas in other areas that won't cause them to lose viewers.  There is a whole universe out there, no need to go gay for stories.

chator56

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Report this Jul. 15 2013, 5:27 pm

trollic,


what does "If Trek goes gay" mean? Trek has already had several gay actors, notibly George Takei who played series regular Sulu on the original Star Trek. Trek has already had episodes promoting unconventional types of sexual relationships usually among alien species. I'm thinking of the Cogenitor episode on Enterprise, or the Outcast episode from Star Trek:The Next Generation. There was also the lesbian kiss scene in the Rejoined episode on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. In your opinion, these episodes don't constitute Trek going gay?

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