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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 10:05 am

Quote: crellmoset @ Jun. 20 2013, 8:26 am

>The reason that the intolerant are not entitled to tolerance themselves is that their intolerance drives them to harass and interfere with others. While we don't support the violence committed against Mormon property it's no secret that the Mormon church spent a significant amount of money to ensure that monotheists could continue to apply their will to the lives of other people. If you want tolerance start keeping your hands to yourselves.


Yup, the Mormon Church did indeed put A LOT of money into prop 8.  I just read a story where one of their officials, a gay man, admitted that the Church was wrong and gave itself a much-deserved black eye.  I think they have learned from that backlash, or at least many of the members have.  There are a lot of recent articles discussing how the LDS church is becoming more sympathetic to gays and lesbians. 


That said, as someone who has married into a Mormon family and who loves his in-laws very much and admires their faith, I admit I was pretty angry about the post prop-8 riots and rallys at Mormon churches and temples.  Churches were vandalized, chants of "Mormon scum!" were said around churches (with Mormon kids and young people present), white powder was mailed to a couple of temples, threats were made, a long time Mexican restaurant here in LA was blockaded because the Mormon woman owner made a $100 donation on behalf of her church, etc...  You didn't see Mormons doing anything like that to the LGBT communities. 


As others have remarked, religious bigotry is becoming the last form of acceptable bigotry.  It was ok to go after the Mormons because they already were viewed with suspicion and dislike by the majority of Americans.  Many many more black votes went into passing prop 8 than Mormon votes and the LGBT leaders made a point in excusing black voters and heaping all the blame on the Mormons. 


I'm not saying that the LGBT community didn't have a right to feel angry.  They certainly did, but some of their members took it too far.  They engaged in the very persecution they were fighting against. 


Reconciling ones faith and morals with social change can be a difficult thing.  We should all strive for a society where the freedoms and rights of individuals are protected and respected to the fullest extent possible.  The best course, imo, is to keep talking so that each side understands the other instead of painting and demonizing the other side with a broad brush.  Then, maybe a compromise can be reached.   


I hate seeing people hate others just for their particular faith, color, sexual-orientation, etc.  I'm a practicing Catholic, and I've certainly been put off by the hatred I've seen directed at me (and 1 in 4 other Americans for that matter) for that on the comments to stories regarding the Catholic Church.  So I kind of get a very slight sense of what the LGBT community is fighting against.  I think peaceful communication is a better way of effecting change than more angry tactics, like the protests, threats, and the like in the wake of prop 8.  I also don't like seeing institutions like the Boy Scouts used as a political football in the culture war.  I don't think it was necessary to force them to change at all (as a consequence, many troops have lost a lot of sponsors).  I think their policy on gays would've changed in a few years anyway, just like the Church of LDS's views (and, I confess, mine) are changing. 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 10:26 am

Quote: Pooneil @ Jun. 16 2013, 8:37 am

>

>"My attitude toward homosexuality has changed. I came to the conclusion that I was wrong. I was never someone who hunted down 'fags' as we used to call them on the street. I would, sometimes, say something anti-homosexual off the top of my head because it was thought, in those days, to be funny. I never really deeply believed those comments, but I gave the impression of being thoughtless in these areas. I have, over many years, changed my attitude about gay men and women." - Gene Roddenberry, 1991

>


That's pretty much the way I was as well.  I didn't hate gays, but I admit I was pretty insensitive to their plight.  I just never thought about it.  I didn't have any gay friends growing up (looking back, I think one of my childhood friends was probably gay, but I don't know for sure).  In college I did have a couple of gay friends, not close, but I liked them and hung out with them on occasion.  I particularly admired the courage of one of them for coming out.  Everyone admired him for it and no one treated him any differently than before.  


I feel like my view on homosexuality has "evolved" over time (like President Obama's).  I've read articles citing studies.  I do really believe it's not a choice and that being the case, I'm not going to ostracize anyone or treat them differently for that.  I'm for equal rights (although I'd rather have it called a civil union than a marriage for gays and lesbians, sorry, but for me, the word "marriage" still means the union of a man and a woman).  I don't see any reason why gays and lesbian couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt children for families of their own.  While I think the ideal family has a mother and a father, having two loving parents, even if they're the same sex, is obviously better than one!  Plus, studies have shown that the children of homosexual couples turn out very well.      


If homosexual behaviour is a sin in the eyes of God, it's certainly not a sin against me or others.  And I don't need to tell gays that what their doing is considered sinful in the eyes of the Church, I think they know the Church's views already!  So I'm not going to proselytize on it.  Gay and Lesbian folks are God's children too, even if they are indeed sinners according to the Church.  Jesus didn't ostracize sinners, he went among them and appealed to their common humanity and that's what I do.  And wel all sin in any case (I'm certainly a sinner too!).  Like Pope Francis said recently, let's come together on doing good and not be driven apart by our differences. 


  


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 10:40 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 18 2013, 3:10 pm

>

>Everytime someone says that being gay is "wrong" or "against God" they are giving a free pass to those who would cause harm to the gay population. Everytime they say it is "wrong", a teenager in a small town with no one to turn to feels ashamed and alone. Everytime they say it is "wrong" a zealot father beats his own son for daring to love another.  

>They don't realize that by saying something is "wrong" they are enabling all the terrible injustices gay men and women suffer.  Every single person who has ever says homosexuality is wrong or a sin is as responsible for violence against their fellow human beings as the people who attack them. Every time they say it's wrong they are guilty of encouraging inequality and oppression.

>If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

>


Wow, that's a pretty scorched earth, "you're either with us or against us," black and white views, bunkey.  It doesn't seem very tolerant at all to people of faith.


As both a Catholic and an Engineer with a substantial background in physics, I prefer a less extreme view of people, like Catholic.Fan.  I admit, I often do have trouble reconciling my religion with science and the facts, but when that happens, I go with my conscience, which is what the book on Catholicism I'm reading declares should be the ultimate arbiter.


I admit, though, that you make a point on the power of words.  That said, I think you're reaching a bit too far with the word "sin," "sinners," etc.  We're all sinners, after all.  I'll say right of the bat that I'm one.  Should that word be used to call down hate and single out a whole group of people like LGBTs?  Absolutely not.  It'd be hypocritical to do so. 


  


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 10:58 am

Violence and threats are never a way to solve anything. Violence only begets more violence and does nothing to educate.  But as you mentioned, it also gave you a glimpse as to what the LGBT community has been dealing with for decades.  So even that extreme negative can be turned into a lesson. That was also a single period of violence. While I don't condone it, it's nothing in comparison to what LGBT deal with.


I, do, whoever, fully endore glitter bombs, lol!


Personally, I feel the Mormon church is probably very misunderstood. I know my personal immediate thought when I think of Mormons is Mitt Romney and "Plural marriage?" (which is another issue I have no problem with, but that's another thread) and I admit that it's most likely a response brought on by the media and watching Big Love. I admit I have little to no first hand knowledge of the LDS.


The resentment towards the church is a response to the church's ongoing effort to influence legislation. There's supposed to be a separation of church and state, but yet when hot button issues come up, like abortion, same sex marriage, birth control, many politicians bring their god into it.  I can't tell you how many times I've read some (usually Republican) Senator or Congressman talking about an issue that should only be a case of the right of an individual and they mention religion or god. While I have no problem with an individuals faith, I do have a problem when they try to use that faith to set policy for a nation. That is where the problem lies. 


The problem also comes forth when large corporations like Chick-Fil-A and Urban Outfitters support anti equality groups in relative secrecy and it's not until watchdog groups "out" them that consumers are aware of where their dollars are going. Urban Outfitters even sold Anti Prop 8 shirts while donating to anti-equality groups. The Salvation Army is hugely guilty of supporting anti gay measures, including lobbyists who want to make gay sex illegal.  These are all organizations that have roots that trace back to the church. 


As far as the Black community on Prop 8, that is another issue entirely. The stigma of being gay in the Black community is less of a religious issue and more of a cultural one. If being gay is difficult, being gay and Black is even more so. It's not an issue I'm terribly familiar with as I am not Black nor do I have many Black gay friends (that I know of), but speaking to activists within the Black community, it's a separate issue from religion. It's a matter of education and removing the stigma that exists within the Black community. 


But it does speak for progress when the Mormon church can rethink it's stance. I think the Catholic church is the portion of the religions sect that is most resistant to change. Everything seems written in stone for them as an institution. 

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 11:16 am

As others have remarked, religious bigotry is becoming the last form of acceptable bigotry.


this is not true, try being even slightly overweight and deal with all of the crap that people give you for that. They even make movies making fun of overweight people.


and I wish that the religious people here would please read more carefully. NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY has said they hated anyone or wished any ill on anyone here for their faith whatever it is. Only for their views on homosexuality. I don't give a shit if you're catholic or whatever, but I do find it horrible if you condemn someone for being gay

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 11:22 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jun. 21 2013, 10:40 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 18 2013, 3:10 pm

>

>

>Everytime someone says that being gay is "wrong" or "against God" they are giving a free pass to those who would cause harm to the gay population. Everytime they say it is "wrong", a teenager in a small town with no one to turn to feels ashamed and alone. Everytime they say it is "wrong" a zealot father beats his own son for daring to love another.  

>They don't realize that by saying something is "wrong" they are enabling all the terrible injustices gay men and women suffer.  Every single person who has ever says homosexuality is wrong or a sin is as responsible for violence against their fellow human beings as the people who attack them. Every time they say it's wrong they are guilty of encouraging inequality and oppression.

>If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

>

Wow, that's a pretty scorched earth, "you're either with us or against us," black and white views, bunkey.  It doesn't seem very tolerant at all to people of faith.

As both a Catholic and an Engineer with a substantial background in physics, I prefer a less extreme view of people, like Catholic.Fan.  I admit, I often do have trouble reconciling my religion with science and the facts, but when that happens, I go with my conscience, which is what the book on Catholicism I'm reading declares should be the ultimate arbiter.

I admit, though, that you make a point on the power of words.  That said, I think you're reaching a bit too far with the word "sin," "sinners," etc.  We're all sinners, after all.  I'll say right of the bat that I'm one.  Should that word be used to call down hate and single out a whole group of people like LGBTs?  Absolutely not.  It'd be hypocritical to do so. 

  


You do seem very reasonable, but I do get very angry when people say that being homosexual is a "sin" "wrong" or "against nature". It hurts people. That was the reasoning behind my words.  Young gay kids face the double whammy of being a teenager in today's world (which is difficult enough) and being gay. (You couldn't pay me enough to be a teenager today) They think there's something wrong with them and when people say that it's wrong, it reinforces that belief.   Even if an individual who says it's wrong does no harm to anyone themselves, they're reinforcing the beliefs of those who do cause harm.  Imagine if some young, gay Trekkie came across those statements here of all places? Imagine if some young man or woman who is facing prejudice in their hometown and is terrified to come out and found solace in Star Trek, a place where all types of living beings are supposed to be equal, read that "gays have no place in Star Trek". Can you imagine how hurtful that could be? To find rejection in a Star Trek forum where they should be nurtured, embraced and celebrated?  It's a small thing, but a simple statement like that can wound beyond belief.  So yeah, I get a little scorched earth when it comes to that.  It may seem I'm intolerant of others religions, but I'm just intolerant of exclusionary practices and religious practices that effect others.  And I do admit that when I hear someone is practicing Catholic I get a bit of little narrow eyed suspicion going on but that comes from many personal experiences within the Catholic church that have caused me to distrust the church as a whole. 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 11:26 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:16 am

>

>As others have remarked, religious bigotry is becoming the last form of acceptable bigotry.

>this is not true, try being even slightly overweight and deal with all of the crap that people give you for that. They even make movies making fun of overweight people.

>and I wish that the religious people here would please read more carefully. NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY has said they hated anyone or wished any ill on anyone here for their faith whatever it is. Only for their views on homosexuality. I don't give a shit if you're catholic or whatever, but I do find it horrible if you condemn someone for being gay

>


I was going to mention that.  Being overweight is the final frontier for prejudice. Fat shaming is very acceptable in the media.  As someone who suffered from multiple eating disorders and grew up with an obese mother, it's a whole other form of discrimination that everyone thinks is ok.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 12:11 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:22 am

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jun. 21 2013, 10:40 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 18 2013, 3:10 pm

>

>

>

>Everytime someone says that being gay is "wrong" or "against God" they are giving a free pass to those who would cause harm to the gay population. Everytime they say it is "wrong", a teenager in a small town with no one to turn to feels ashamed and alone. Everytime they say it is "wrong" a zealot father beats his own son for daring to love another.  

>They don't realize that by saying something is "wrong" they are enabling all the terrible injustices gay men and women suffer.  Every single person who has ever says homosexuality is wrong or a sin is as responsible for violence against their fellow human beings as the people who attack them. Every time they say it's wrong they are guilty of encouraging inequality and oppression.

>If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

>

Wow, that's a pretty scorched earth, "you're either with us or against us," black and white views, bunkey.  It doesn't seem very tolerant at all to people of faith.

As both a Catholic and an Engineer with a substantial background in physics, I prefer a less extreme view of people, like Catholic.Fan.  I admit, I often do have trouble reconciling my religion with science and the facts, but when that happens, I go with my conscience, which is what the book on Catholicism I'm reading declares should be the ultimate arbiter.

I admit, though, that you make a point on the power of words.  That said, I think you're reaching a bit too far with the word "sin," "sinners," etc.  We're all sinners, after all.  I'll say right of the bat that I'm one.  Should that word be used to call down hate and single out a whole group of people like LGBTs?  Absolutely not.  It'd be hypocritical to do so. 

  

You do seem very reasonable, but I do get very angry when people say that being homosexual is a "sin" "wrong" or "against nature". It hurts people. That was the reasoning behind my words.  Young gay kids face the double whammy of being a teenager in today's world (which is difficult enough) and being gay. (You couldn't pay me enough to be a teenager today) They think there's something wrong with them and when people say that it's wrong, it reinforces that belief.   Even if an individual who says it's wrong does no harm to anyone themselves, they're reinforcing the beliefs of those who do cause harm.  Imagine if some young, gay Trekkie came across those statements here of all places? Imagine if some young man or woman who is facing prejudice in their hometown and is terrified to come out and found solace in Star Trek, a place where all types of living beings are supposed to be equal, read that "gays have no place in Star Trek". Can you imagine how hurtful that could be? To find rejection in a Star Trek forum where they should be nurtured, embraced and celebrated?  It's a small thing, but a simple statement like that can wound beyond belief.  So yeah, I get a little scorched earth when it comes to that.  It may seem I'm intolerant of others religions, but I'm just intolerant of exclusionary practices and religious practices that effect others.  And I do admit that when I hear someone is practicing Catholic I get a bit of little narrow eyed suspicion going on but that comes from many personal experiences within the Catholic church that have caused me to distrust the church as a whole. 


Bunkey, I do get what you're saying.  When I was writing all that, I was also thinking at the same time how using the word "sinners" for practicing homosexuals could be construed.  I just read an article on abcnews.com of a Mormon mom who campaigned for prop 8 who found out a few years later that her 13 year old sun was gay.  It threw them all for a loop, which is understandable, but she never stopped loving her son and is helping him and supporting him in his life.  My bro-in-laws wife's brother is gay too and his Mormon family (10 siblings!) has not ostracized him either.  As a relatively new dad, I have thought a lot about how I myself would react.  One thing I do know is that I'd love my kids no matter what. 


So I myself am having difficulty with the Church's stance on homosexuality (despite their being a "gay lobby" in the Vatican as Pope Francis recently noted and, obviously, many gay priests).  And, y'know, I don't like using the word "sinners" for gay and lesbian, or transgender folks at all for the reasons you stated.  I've known and worked with them and they've all been good folks. I don't like singling them out like that because the Church says so.  So it's something of a moral dilema with me.  I'm still working my way through it.  Maybe it'd be easier if it was more personal.  Actually, though I hate to admit it, I'm sure it would. 


That said, I hope you really didn't mean what you were saying, equating one's admittance of personal religious views on homosexuality being a sin to beating a gay person and the like.  If I saw that happening I'd do everything I could to stop it.  Saying it's the same thing is like saying all lay Catholics are guilty of multiple sex abuse crimes towards minors because the bishops protected pedophile priests.


I don't think you should be suspicious of practicing Catholics.  Looks at the latest polls. Most American Catholics think the Vatican is out of touch.  Over 60% of them are for gay marriage.  Most American Catholics are for birth control and use it.  Catholics aren't all conservative.  I think it's pretty close to being 50% Republican and 50% Democrat and I'd say a good chunk of the Republicans aren't terribly socially conservative either. 


So I guess I don't understand why saying one's a "practicing Catholic" should draw any suspicion or dislike unless one's a very intolerant atheist.  The Vatican and the bishops, of course, definitely deserve suspicion and cynicism, after all the scandals, but lay Catholics (about 1/4 of Americans) and the majority of the priests and nuns?  I don't think that's right.


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

rocketscientist

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 12:15 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:26 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:16 am

>

>

>As others have remarked, religious bigotry is becoming the last form of acceptable bigotry.

>this is not true, try being even slightly overweight and deal with all of the crap that people give you for that. They even make movies making fun of overweight people.

>and I wish that the religious people here would please read more carefully. NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY has said they hated anyone or wished any ill on anyone here for their faith whatever it is. Only for their views on homosexuality. I don't give a shit if you're catholic or whatever, but I do find it horrible if you condemn someone for being gay

>

I was going to mention that.  Being overweight is the final frontier for prejudice. Fat shaming is very acceptable in the media.  As someone who suffered from multiple eating disorders and grew up with an obese mother, it's a whole other form of discrimination that everyone thinks is ok.


Well, yeah, that's definitely another one. 


Honestly, I wish society in general would become more understanding and tolerant.  IMO its all just getting meaner, more hateful, and more intolerant.  Why do we need a terrorist attack or a natural disaster to pull together?  Why do so many people listen to the hate-mongering (not all!) politicians, preachers, celebrities, pundits, etc.? 


As for gays and lesbians on ST, I'd be ok with it if it was pretty discrete.  By the same token, I also wish they'd show some of the human characters practicing their own religious beliefs.  It looks like, post-TOS, Roddenberry decided that humanity had decided religion was all bunk so that all the human characters are atheists or agnostics.  That personally saddens me, since I do think religious belief will last.  I also think it would be inspiring to show characters of different faiths and religious backgrounds working alongside each other in line with the franchises other depictions of racial and cultural diversity. 


 


KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 12:49 pm

Quote: rocketscientist @ Jun. 21 2013, 12:15 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:26 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 21 2013, 11:16 am

>

>

>

>As others have remarked, religious bigotry is becoming the last form of acceptable bigotry.

>this is not true, try being even slightly overweight and deal with all of the crap that people give you for that. They even make movies making fun of overweight people.

>and I wish that the religious people here would please read more carefully. NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY has said they hated anyone or wished any ill on anyone here for their faith whatever it is. Only for their views on homosexuality. I don't give a shit if you're catholic or whatever, but I do find it horrible if you condemn someone for being gay

>

I was going to mention that.  Being overweight is the final frontier for prejudice. Fat shaming is very acceptable in the media.  As someone who suffered from multiple eating disorders and grew up with an obese mother, it's a whole other form of discrimination that everyone thinks is ok.

Well, yeah, that's definitely another one. 

Honestly, I wish society in general would become more understanding and tolerant.  IMO its all just getting meaner, more hateful, and more intolerant.  Why do we need a terrorist attack or a natural disaster to pull together?  Why do so many people listen to the hate-mongering (not all!) politicians, preachers, celebrities, pundits, etc.? 

As for gays and lesbians on ST, I'd be ok with it if it was pretty discrete.  By the same token, I also wish they'd show some of the human characters practicing their own religious beliefs.  It looks like, post-TOS, Roddenberry decided that humanity had decided religion was all bunk so that all the human characters are atheists or agnostics.  That personally saddens me, since I do think religious belief will last.  I also think it would be inspiring to show characters of different faiths and religious backgrounds working alongside each other in line with the franchises other depictions of racial and cultural diversity. 

 


I don't think it means that all humans are atheists....though I do think at that time there will be many more. I think it was just something left unmentioned, like going to the bathroom.


And in a series like DS9, when there was such a heavy emphasis on the Bajorans and their religion, humans not being religious was a balance to that. If humas were shown in a religious context I think it would have been too much religion


As far as a gay character being descrete....I think people are afraid that if ther was a gay character it would be an overly stereotypical flamboyant man in hot pink shorts or something. Look at ANY relationship that was shown on Trek. They're all pretty descrete. How many times did we see Obrien kiss Keiko? How many times did we see Worf kiss Jadzia? How many times did we see Tom kiss B'Elanna. It realy wasn't that much. Trek has been pretty downlow with the romance.

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 1:45 pm

RocketScientist, first of all I'd like to say your openmindedness is awesome. I'm glad that you're working on it.  If you're so inclined to take a closer look or make it more personal, there are many LGBT youth crisis centers in desperate need of volunteers.  These kids just need someone to treat them like their normal. They often need tutors and since you're a scientist, I'm sure your intellectual contribution would be greatly welcomed.  Get to know these kids as what they are, kids who need guidance. Many kids at these places ARE religious or from religious backgrounds and are very conflicted. You sound like the type of person that could do them some good in their journey in reconciling their faith. 


When I was in my eary 20s, I worked in a video store that had a large LGBT clientele.  While I was never against gay rights, at the time I didn't understand the impact that a lack of them had. There was an elderly couple, two men, that had been together for over 40 years. This was the 90s so if you do the math, you realize they were together since the 50s. Imagine the struggles then? They came in together all the time and were adorable just like any other elderly couple you see. We all loved them. One day one of them came in alone after a long absence. He returned a video that was months late.  When I asked him where his partner was he said he had died.  I credited all the late fees and saw he was upset so I offered him some free rentals to try and cheer him up. He sighed and said he was moving so he was closing his account. His partner had died and his partner's family has seized all the assets and since he wasn't on the title of the co-op, he was being kicked out of the apartment he'd lived in for decades by the family.  Me and the other employees were near tears for this man. It was that moment, that specific event, that I always trace back to as an awakening for me. This man has lost his partner, his true love. It was tragic and enlightening. Love was love. That became clear. Perhaps you too will have similar moment some day.


I'm suspicious of Catholics because I was raised Catholic, I went to Catholic school for a long time. I consider myself agnostic at this time, but I have had many battles with the Catholic church. The Catholic church is why I dropped out of high school, but that's a long story. Let's just say when I meet someone who's very religious and follows the Catholic church, I am on my guard due to many personal experiences. None of which, by the way, have to do with being gay or straight.


I don't equate one's admittance of personal religious views on homosexuality being a sin to beating a gay person and the like.  I equate any public denouncement of homosexuality as such.  I'm sorry but when someone publicly says being homosexual is wrong or a sin, no matter what their intentions, people who would harm or oppress homosexuals see that as a green light for their behavior. It fuels the fire. 


As far as religion on Star Trek, Roddenberry mentioned in an interview that the powers that be had wanted a chaplain on the Enterprise and he said no. The reason behind this was that he felt that it would be arrogant to say that one single religion would dominate a ship full of people around the galaxy. I mean if Star Trek was truly about a united Earth, what religion do you choose? Christian? Judaism? Buddhist? I think Roddenberry was against religion on the show for this reason. Choosing a religion would divide. Also, while I would have no problem with an individual member of the crew being show practicing a religion, do you show others? If you show a Christian praying to Jesus, do you show a Jewish person celebrating Passover? What about Islam? Do you show someone praying Islam morning prayer or do you worry about people complaining about that because of 9/11? 


I'd like to think that religion in Star Trek (and in our future) has taken a backseat so to speak. It exists, but no longer is followed to the dogmatic extent that it causes divides among human beings. Can religion live side by side with alien races? I don't know. Look at "Half A Life". In the end Timicin decides to honor his cultures traditions and commits ritual suicide. That episode was wonderful because it showed the alien point of view. How beautiful they believed the ritual to be and how it was a celebration of life. In the end, Lwaxana, while she abhors the idea, choses to go with Timicin and be with him when he dies.  Could a culture like that exist side by side with a religious person who believed suicide is a sin and that the soul of someone who commits suicide is damnned? I really doubt it, honestly.

starfan97

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 4:22 pm

As much as Roddenberry made some political statements in some of his episodes, he seemed to keep away from gay people and religion. I think it was a smart idea.  Also, as I mentioned earlier, I am not sure that the broadcasting companies would have allowed a gay charachter. MAYBE in Enterprise, but even then it wasnt entirely publically acceptable. And i think if they made a gay character, they wouldnt just make him in the background. And since I think being gay is wrong, I would not like that. (I am against the act of being gay, NOT the people)

DriaLynn

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Report this Jun. 21 2013, 6:04 pm

I wonder if I should regret starting this thread! 


 


I am both both practicing Catholic, and homosexual. I believe that neither once of these things make me a bad person. This is why I hate to see arguments about this topic because it is usually the two things that I am against each other. 


People who say that Star Trek never addressed homosexuality are not quite right because it did, well not directly. In the episode of TNG The Outcast, I think it was pretty obvious what they were trying to say. 


 


On another point, you should ALL watch the movie Prayers for Bobby. This movie is beautiful and so relevant. It's about a very religious mother who found out that her son is gay. It is a true story and so moving. I recommend it to every single person alive.

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 22 2013, 3:18 am

Quote: starfan97 @ Jun. 21 2013, 4:22 pm

>

>As much as Roddenberry made some political statements in some of his episodes, he seemed to keep away from gay people and religion. I think it was a smart idea.  Also, as I mentioned earlier, I am not sure that the broadcasting companies would have allowed a gay charachter. MAYBE in Enterprise, but even then it wasnt entirely publically acceptable. And i think if they made a gay character, they wouldnt just make him in the background. And since I think being gay is wrong, I would not like that. (I am against the act of being gay, NOT the people)

>


Again, your statement makes no sense.  What exactly is the "act of being gay"? Being gay is not an act or an action. Please explain to me what your definition of "the act of being gay" is.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 22 2013, 3:40 am

Quote: DriaLynn @ Jun. 21 2013, 6:04 pm

>

>I wonder if I should regret starting this thread! 

>I am both both practicing Catholic, and homosexual. I believe that neither once of these things make me a bad person. This is why I hate to see arguments about this topic because it is usually the two things that I am against each other. 

>People who say that Star Trek never addressed homosexuality are not quite right because it did, well not directly. In the episode of TNG The Outcast, I think it was pretty obvious what they were trying to say. 

>On another point, you should ALL watch the movie Prayers for Bobby. This movie is beautiful and so relevant. It's about a very religious mother who found out that her son is gay. It is a true story and so moving. I recommend it to every single person alive.

>


 


Never regret starting a discussion like this. Conversations like this need to take place. Hell, I wish Creation would start a panel about this at conventions.  We need to talk about this. To educate people about how even the slightest comment can effect a person.  How simply saying "I don't want to see gays in Star Trek" can hurt others to their core.  Comments like that are what cause pain and suffering.


Prayers For Bobby never fails to bring tears to my eyes. Sigourney Weaver is wonderful in it.  Her final speech, when she implores people to think before they speak out against homosexuals because "a child is listening" is one of the most moving scenes I have ever watched.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=266q7aRCfFg   I also urge everyone to watch the movie.


DriaLynn, I hope that some day the two things you are are no longer "against each other". I believe that the only thing that is against your sexual orientation is other people, not your god. I hope that you find acceptance and love everywhere you go.  I hope that you know that you are wonderful exactly how you are and no one has the right to judge you but your god.  And I believe that any god who created you loves you as you are and you are exactly how they meant you to be. You are perfect and glorious just as you are.


 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

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