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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 20 2013, 4:21 am

Quote: chator56 @ Jun. 19 2013, 4:10 pm

>In Star Trek there is no God or Gods, only alien beings with superior strength, and abilities to manipulate space, time and matter. Like in the Sherlock Holmes novels, and stories, there is a scientific or rational explanation behind apparent supernatural phenomena. In many cases, these alien beings are unworthy of our worship. Examples include TOS episode, Who Mourns For Adonis? and TNG episodes involving Q, such as Encounter at Farpoint, the episode involving Ardra, Devil's Due, among others.


Thousands of years ago, humans worshipped gods because they didn't understand how nature and science worked.   Humans worshipped a sun god because they didn't understand what the sun was.  Gods, the supernatural and mythology have filled the gaps in humanity's knowledge for centuries. Once upon a time if someone had a epileptic seizure, they would be considered possessed by the devil and possibly burned at the stake. 


To quote Agent K in Men In Black while discussing the fact that there are aliens on Earth to Agent J:


"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."


Religion and it's teachings are fine as a philosophy.  Most of the stuff they teach is good, common sense. Don't kill, don't steal, do good, take care of those who are weaker or less fortunate than you, be charitable.


It's when it's taken literally as a step by step how-to is when there is a problem.  If you live by it as a philosphy, you can meet someone who uses another religion in the same way and have a lot on common.


"Hey I believe in not killing people and being nice to others!"


"Hey, me too! Let's have a beer!"


If you follow it as a how to in life  it turns into:


"Hey, you! You're eating meat on Friday! On page 3,287 it says NOT  TO EAT MEAT ON FRIDAY!"


"Well YOU are not covering your hair and that's disrespectful to god! On page 7,345 it says you cannot show your hair!"


"My god is right!"


"No! MY god is right!"


"Let's kill each other!"


"OKAY!"


The devout worshippers on this forum are taking their religions teachings literally and condemning something as a sin that is not harmful in anyway simply because there is a few vague lines in the bible about it.  


If you've ever watched Dogma, the movie by Clerk's creator Kevin Smith, it probably has some of the most brilliant commentary on organized religion that I've ever heard.


"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant." -Dogma


 


Steadfast belief prevents people from embracing scientific fact. I mean how many schools are still actively teaching creationism? When I went back to Catholic school after several years of public school I was appalled at the lack of scientific education, and science was my favorite subject.  The belief doesn't allow for compromise.  Not to mention that people are taking literally a text that is thousands of years old and has been translated and handed down too many times to count.  People think the bible is the word of god. I think the bible MIGHT be the word of god, but it's been written by men. Men who make mistakes, misinterpert things, edit and change things.  Things get lost in translation. Have you ever watched a foreign language film that has subtitles as a native speaker? If you have you've seen how wrong they get the dialogue.  Things get lost in THAT translation. Once upon a time I was in Greece and Aliens was on TV. Aliens  is my favorite movie in the world.  It was dubbed into Greek with English subtitles for whatever reason. As I read the subtitles, I realized that the were getting almost everything wrong.  Everything was being paraphrased or mistranslated. And that's just a movie. Imagine how screwed up the bible is? How can anyone be sure that what Leviticus 20 says now is what it said originally? 


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 6:15 am

I'm asking this question again  because there was never an answer. Those who are opposed to a gay main character, how would you feel about a gay GUEST character? How would you feel about a character who was only in like 5 episodes being gay?

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:19 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 14 2013, 12:53 pm

>

>"Tolerance of intolerance."  Are you frakking kidding me?

>So you're saying that not tolerating hatred, bigotry, oppression, biased violence and lack of equality is hurting the LGBT community? That they're supposed to TOLERATE hatred and people who want to rob them of their rights and sometimes physically assault them?

>Jesus H Christ.  You're unbelieveable. 

>So done with you.

>
 Unfortionally the very definition of Tolerence is exactly what you just posted and appear to be unwilling to do.  By the same token when prop 8 was passed in California many LGBT supporters when on riots trashing Morman churches because they lost a vote why should that type of behavor be tolerated?  Also your statement proves the writers point


chr33355

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:22 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 20 2013, 6:15 am

>

>I'm asking this question again  because there was never an answer. Those who are opposed to a gay main character, how would you feel about a gay GUEST character? How would you feel about a character who was only in like 5 episodes being gay?

>
 Why does them being gay matter?  I don't care about a character unless they add something to the show.  This can be done in several ways.   Does the character provide something new to the storyline?  Does the character stand on there own or is their only thing that they are gay?  A baddly written character is worse than no character at all.  Or worse they could just be a collection of gaysterotypes like many early gay characters where.


bunkey

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:27 am

I don't tolerate violence on either side. No one should. Nor do I tolerate discrimination.


And how, exactly did I prove their point? Please explain this thoroughly and in detail. How is intolerance of violence and discrimination proving their point? 

chr33355

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:32 am

It isn't the intolerance of violence and discriminiation that proves the point it was the jumping immeidiatly to being tolerant of the other side ment being tolerant to the violence and discrimination.

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:36 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Jun. 20 2013, 7:22 am

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 20 2013, 6:15 am

>

>

>I'm asking this question again  because there was never an answer. Those who are opposed to a gay main character, how would you feel about a gay GUEST character? How would you feel about a character who was only in like 5 episodes being gay?

>
 Why does them being gay matter?  I don't care about a character unless they add something to the show.  This can be done in several ways.   Does the character provide something new to the storyline?  Does the character stand on there own or is their only thing that they are gay?  A baddly written character is worse than no character at all.  Or worse they could just be a collection of gaysterotypes like many early gay characters where.


it matters because this thread is about gay characters, other than that, no it desn't matter to me. I actually agree with the above, I don't think it matters either way as long as the character is intersting

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:38 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Jun. 20 2013, 7:32 am

>It isn't the intolerance of violence and discriminiation that proves the point it was the jumping immeidiatly to being tolerant of the other side ment being tolerant to the violence and discrimination.


I never said that anyone should tolerate violence. And your grammar is making me cry.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:39 am

Then essentially we are agruing over haveing a token gay character which I am not okay with.  Make them an interesting character who happens to be gay but don't just give us a gay character to keep the activist happy.

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:40 am

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 20 2013, 7:38 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Jun. 20 2013, 7:32 am

>

>It isn't the intolerance of violence and discriminiation that proves the point it was the jumping immeidiatly to being tolerant of the other side ment being tolerant to the violence and discrimination.

I never said that anyone should tolerate violence. And your grammar is making me cry.

 Grammer isn't important only facts.  In your post you wrote "intolerant of intolerance don't make me laugh" or something to that effect.  Then when on about you don't what to be tolerent to violence, bigoty discrimination, etc.  You immeditally implied the person who you were responding to wanted you to tolerate these issues when all he/she said was the LGBT doesn't not tolereate disagreement with them.   This implies you feel the poster supports all of the issues mention thus proving his/her point of the LGBT not being tolerent of disagreement.


bunkey

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 7:43 am

Grammar is important when I have to read what you wrote out loud twice to figure out what you're trying to say.

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 8:17 am

Quote: chr33355 @ Jun. 20 2013, 7:39 am

>

>Then essentially we are agruing over haveing a token gay character which I am not okay with.  Make them an interesting character who happens to be gay but don't just give us a gay character to keep the activist happy.

>


well I'm not arguing, I'm duscussing. What makes a character a "token" character? Was Uhura a "token" black character? or was she a bridge officer who happened to be black?


When we talk about adding a gay character we're not talking about anything flamboyant or outrageous. Just an everyday officer who you probably wouldn't even know was gay until he/she came home to their significant other who was the same gender

crellmoset

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Report this Jun. 20 2013, 8:26 am

The reason that the intolerant are not entitled to tolerance themselves is that their intolerance drives them to harass and interfere with others. While we don't support the violence committed against Mormon property it's no secret that the Mormon church spent a significant amount of money to ensure that monotheists could continue to apply their will to the lives of other people.

If you want tolerance start keeping your hands to yourselves.

Ethics are arbitrary.

chr33355

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POSTS: 1551

Report this Jun. 20 2013, 1:17 pm

well I'm not arguing, I'm duscussing. What makes a character a "token" character? Was Uhura a "token" black character? or was she a bridge officer who happened to be black?  What make a character "token"  is they have one single trait that defines their character.  I am not sure about Uhura as I have never actually seen TOS but from what others have told be she seems to be a bridge officer who happens to be black.  A good example of a token character is Mayweather from Enterprise as a token space character since most of his character traits revovled around the fact he had been in space.


bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 21 2013, 8:25 am

How was Mayweather a "token" character? And what the hell is a token "space character"?


Your posts make less and less sense.


 

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