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Brannon Braga calls lack of gay Star Trek characters 'a shame'

Admiral James T. Kirk

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POSTS: 53

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 11:22 am

What about the One Episode in DS9 Where Jadzia and that One Scientist woman Hook up.... I'm pretty sure they even kiss at one point in episode..... actually now that i think of it the whole episiode is about the two and thire relationship

willowtree

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POSTS: 1137

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 11:39 am

Quote: Admiral James T. Kirk @ Jun. 19 2013, 11:22 am

>

>What about the One Episode in DS9 Where Jadzia and that One Scientist woman Hook up.... I'm pretty sure they even kiss at one point in episode..... actually now that i think of it the whole episiode is about the two and thire relationship

>


yes, that was two women kissing, but that's not what it's about. it was about Jadzia's former host who was a man, and her former host who was a woman, THEY were the ones kissing. It was still kind of a heterosexual kiss

GuardianAngel1

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Report this Jun. 19 2013, 12:03 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 18 2013, 4:28 am

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 17 2013, 4:28 pm

>

>"Readily accept" no, but since this entire site is about the fandom of Star Trek, then bringing up the habits of it's creations would be allowed. As for my personal beliefs, yes, I firmly believe that homosexuality is wrong. That's the thing about living in a free country, I can believe as I like, and so can you.

>Certainly they allow personal relationships, as does the military I might add, however, ST was formulated in a time of traditional famil values, and in my opinion, should stay that way. And yes, there is a sex police. Just so you know.

>It has also revealed how close minded you are to traditional values. You can't expect everyone to agree with your point of view, and then use the same "close-minded bigotry" that you accuse others of having to tread on our beliefs. Either you believe in being open minded or you don't, you can't have it both ways. You're free to believe that homosexuality is acceptable, I am free to believe that it isn't. The conversation, however, is about it's role on Star Trek, and our opinions on the matter. You have mine.

Where, in Star Trek, is there a sex police? Please enlighten me.

And what  to "traditional family values" are you referring? Archaic gender roles? Or Christian values? Because while there are a lot of Christians in the world, they are far outnumbered by others. Christians only make up about 30% of the population. So should the other 70% of the world sumbit to your definition of values? And which Christian values should we follow? Catholic? Protestant? Episcopalian? Or is it just that we should define family values on the terms of the almighty United States? How arrogant.

I'm not closed minded to traditional values.  I believe every one in this country has the right to believe what they want as long as it doesn't harm others. And your wish to exclude LGBT people from Star Trek harms others. It oppresses others. 


You didn't ask if there were sex police on Star Trek, you asked if there were sex police. The answer is yes.


And you, like many of the thread trolls before you, have confused morality with "being Christian". There are many, many, MANY people on planet earth who do not agree with the homosexual agenda who are not aligned with the Christian faith, or any faith for that matter. I personally am a Christian, but this discussion is not now, nor was it ever about faith. It was about opinion, period. 


I've met a lot of people like you, you call Christian's bigots, but don't realize how much bigotry comes out of your own mouth. You push your ideals on other people, and criticize them if they don't agree with it. Don't post a question on a social media board if you only want answers from people who agree with you. Anything less is an argument, not a debate.


Star Trek is about being open minded, but still holding on to your identity. It's about humans coexisting with other people from other planets with other ideals and beliefs. That is what makes it so appealing, because it achieves what we humans on earth have yet to discover for ourselves, and that is harmony. I firmly believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and has no place in Star Trek, or anywhere else for that matter. That does NOT mean that I hate homosexuals, or that you can't have your own opinion on the matter. What it does mean, is that you nor anyone else has the right to judge me for my faith. So get over it.


"Excuse me....excuse me. I'd just like to ask a question...what does God need with a starship?" -James T. Kirk

willowtree

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Report this Jun. 19 2013, 12:27 pm

nd you, like many of the thread trolls before you, have confused morality with "being Christian". There are many, many, MANY people on planet earth who do not agree with the homosexual agenda who are not aligned with the Christian faith, or any faith for that matter. I personally am a Christian, but this discussion is not now, nor was it ever about faith. It was about opinion, period. 


I've met a lot of people like you, you call Christian's bigots, but don't realize how much bigotry comes out of your own mouth. You push your ideals on other people, and criticize them if they don't agree with it. Don't post a question on a social media board if you only want answers from people who agree with you. Anything less is an argument, not a debate.


Please go back and reread. Nobody called anyone a bigot for being a Christian. And just because someone disagres with you doesn't make them a troll.


I think you need to look up the word bigot. Here, I'll do it for you


    From the Webster dictionary: "One who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance"


That clearly defines the people who have posted their hate filled anti gay nonsense.


Star Trek is about being open minded, but still holding on to your identity. It's about humans coexisting with other people from other planets with other ideals and beliefs. That is what makes it so appealing, because it achieves what we humans on earth have yet to discover for ourselves, and that is harmony.


Just no gay people right?


How the hell can you talk about being openmindedness, coexistence, and such and still say that there can't be gay people. That's kind of the oposite of what you just said


I firmly believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and has no place in Star Trek, or anywhere else for that matter. That does NOT mean that I hate homosexuals, or that you can't have your own opinion on the matter. What it does mean, is that you nor anyone else has the right to judge me for my faith. So get over it.


so you think that homosexuality is morally wrong, they can't get married and they will spend eternity in burning hellfire....but you don't hate them  LOL

GuardianAngel1

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POSTS: 21

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 12:41 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:27 pm

>

>Please go back and reread. Nobody called anyone a bigot for being a Christian. I think you need to look up the word bigot. Here, I'll do it for you

>    From the Webster dictionary: "One who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance"

>That clearly defines the people who have posted their hate filled anti gay nonsense.

>So, you're saying that no one has treated any Christian faith or belief within this thread with hatred or intolerance? Perhaps you should be the one to go back and re-read.

>Just no gay people.

>How the hell can you talk about being openmindedness, coexistence, and such and still say that there can't be gay people. That's kind of the oposite of what you just said

>so you think that homosexuality is morally wrong, they can't get married and they will spend eternity in burning hellfire....but you don't hate them  LOL

>


So, you're saying that no one has treated any Christian faith or belief within this thread with hatred or intolerance? Perhaps you should be the one to go back and re-read.


I never said there can't be gay people. I said I don't agree with the lifestyle. Two very different things, as sexual orientation is a choice, not an inherited trait. And before you start a war on that subject, there is no possible way to prove nor disprove either side of that argument, becayse it's theoretical. I know people who have changed their lifestyles and have said from their own mouths that being gay was a choice. I believe them.


No, I don't hate them. Sin has consequences, and PEOPLE choose those consequences for themselves. If I murder someone in cold blood and don't repent, God does not hate me for it, but the consequence of sin is hell, and I would've been the one to choose it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle, a choice that people make. I do not hate the people who make those choices, I hate the choices they make. No true Christian takes pleasure in the concept of hell, let me make that very clear. The Bible says that hell was never intended for people, but ONLY for satan and the angels that followed him. However, by choosing to sin, we send ourselves there, and that's not on God, nor Christians. That's on the individual.


"Excuse me....excuse me. I'd just like to ask a question...what does God need with a starship?" -James T. Kirk

chator56

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POSTS: 498

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 12:45 pm

Admiral James T. Kirk,


That was the Rejoined episode I mentioned earlier. The question, willowtree, is what will the audience see. They will see two women kissing. Yes, the context is not homosexual, but the act IS! The message is that love transcends gender.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 12:51 pm

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:03 pm

>You didn't ask if there were sex police on Star Trek, you asked if there were sex police. The answer is yes.

>And you, like many of the thread trolls before you, have confused morality with "being Christian". There are many, many, MANY people on planet earth who do not agree with the homosexual agenda who are not aligned with the Christian faith, or any faith for that matter. I personally am a Christian, but this discussion is not now, nor was it ever about faith. It was about opinion, period. 

>I've met a lot of people like you, you call Christian's bigots, but don't realize how much bigotry comes out of your own mouth. You push your ideals on other people, and criticize them if they don't agree with it. Don't post a question on a social media board if you only want answers from people who agree with you. Anything less is an argument, not a debate.

>Star Trek is about being open minded, but still holding on to your identity. It's about humans coexisting with other people from other planets with other ideals and beliefs. That is what makes it so appealing, because it achieves what we humans on earth have yet to discover for ourselves, and that is harmony. I firmly believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and has no place in Star Trek, or anywhere else for that matter. That does NOT mean that I hate homosexuals, or that you can't have your own opinion on the matter. What it does mean, is that you nor anyone else has the right to judge me for my faith. So get over it.


You're hysterically hypocritical.  You say Star Trek is about being open minded yet in the next breath say homosexuality is wrong and has no place in Star Trek or anywhere else.


You claim not to hate gay people, but yet say they have NO PLACE IN SOCIETY!  That is not even in the same zip code as logic. Do you even realize how ridiulous that sounds? 


You tell me not to judge your faith, yet you judge homosexuals as wrong.


You claim you've met "a lot of people like me". What you claim is "bigotry" is simply intolerance of discrimination. Christians are not necessarily bigots. HOMOPHOBIC Christians are. 


I don't judge your faith. I judge your intolerance, your hypocrisy and your homophobia. I judge you because you seek to deny others of their rights. I judge you because every time you say being gay is "wrong" and has no place in society, you are just as guilty as those who physically attack gay men and women.  You are an enabler. You validate their violence. You, and others like you, have the blood of all the murdered gay men and women on your hands. Every person who is beaten to death because they are gay is your responsibility. Every suicide that happens because a young person thinks they are a freak is because of people like you.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

GuardianAngel1

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POSTS: 21

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 1:09 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:51 pm

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:03 pm

>

>You didn't ask if there were sex police on Star Trek, you asked if there were sex police. The answer is yes.

>And you, like many of the thread trolls before you, have confused morality with "being Christian". There are many, many, MANY people on planet earth who do not agree with the homosexual agenda who are not aligned with the Christian faith, or any faith for that matter. I personally am a Christian, but this discussion is not now, nor was it ever about faith. It was about opinion, period. 

>I've met a lot of people like you, you call Christian's bigots, but don't realize how much bigotry comes out of your own mouth. You push your ideals on other people, and criticize them if they don't agree with it. Don't post a question on a social media board if you only want answers from people who agree with you. Anything less is an argument, not a debate.

>Star Trek is about being open minded, but still holding on to your identity. It's about humans coexisting with other people from other planets with other ideals and beliefs. That is what makes it so appealing, because it achieves what we humans on earth have yet to discover for ourselves, and that is harmony. I firmly believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and has no place in Star Trek, or anywhere else for that matter. That does NOT mean that I hate homosexuals, or that you can't have your own opinion on the matter. What it does mean, is that you nor anyone else has the right to judge me for my faith. So get over it.

You're hysterically hypocritical.  You say Star Trek is about being open minded yet in the next breath say homosexuality is wrong and has no place in Star Trek or anywhere else.

You claim not to hate gay people, but yet say they have NO PLACE IN SOCIETY!  That is not even in the same zip code as logic. Do you even realize how ridiulous that sounds? 

You tell me not to judge your faith, yet you judge homosexuals as wrong.

You claim you've met "a lot of people like me". What you claim is "bigotry" is simply intolerance of discrimination. Christians are not necessarily bigots. HOMOPHOBIC Christians are. 

I don't judge your faith. I judge your intolerance, your hypocrisy and your homophobia. I judge you because you seek to deny others of their rights. I judge you because every time you say being gay is "wrong" and has no place in society, you are just as guilty as those who physically attack gay men and women.  You are an enabler. You validate their violence. You, and others like you, have the blood of all the murdered gay men and women on your hands. Every person who is beaten to death because they are gay is your responsibility. Every suicide that happens because a young person thinks they are a freak is because of people like you.


 


Again, you mistake my lack of tolerance of the ACT as lack of tolerance for the PEOPLE. That's what's wrong with everyone these days, they can't separate the two. I'm not in to labels, ok? The act does not make the man, in my opinion. You label me as a homophobe, when you don't know the first thing about me, or how I interact with the homosexual community.


 


You're a bigot, plain and simple. You hate me because I don't agree with you, when in fact, you should realize that we BOTH have love for ALL people. You just can't see past the fact that I'm a Christian, and that my friend is a sad, sad thing. You think you have some cause, some banner to fly in the face of all those who "oppress" others, but you're just a bully like all the rest. You use your own anger and insecurity to judge other people for what they believe, but the fact is you can't see past your own mirror.


 


For future reference, I have said my piece on this subject. Berate me further if you wish, I will not indulge you.


"Excuse me....excuse me. I'd just like to ask a question...what does God need with a starship?" -James T. Kirk

willowtree

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1137

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 1:21 pm

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 19 2013, 1:09 pm

Quote: bunkey @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:51 pm

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:03 pm

>

>

>You didn't ask if there were sex police on Star Trek, you asked if there were sex police. The answer is yes.

>And you, like many of the thread trolls before you, have confused morality with "being Christian". There are many, many, MANY people on planet earth who do not agree with the homosexual agenda who are not aligned with the Christian faith, or any faith for that matter. I personally am a Christian, but this discussion is not now, nor was it ever about faith. It was about opinion, period. 

>I've met a lot of people like you, you call Christian's bigots, but don't realize how much bigotry comes out of your own mouth. You push your ideals on other people, and criticize them if they don't agree with it. Don't post a question on a social media board if you only want answers from people who agree with you. Anything less is an argument, not a debate.

>Star Trek is about being open minded, but still holding on to your identity. It's about humans coexisting with other people from other planets with other ideals and beliefs. That is what makes it so appealing, because it achieves what we humans on earth have yet to discover for ourselves, and that is harmony. I firmly believe that homosexuality is morally wrong and has no place in Star Trek, or anywhere else for that matter. That does NOT mean that I hate homosexuals, or that you can't have your own opinion on the matter. What it does mean, is that you nor anyone else has the right to judge me for my faith. So get over it.

You're hysterically hypocritical.  You say Star Trek is about being open minded yet in the next breath say homosexuality is wrong and has no place in Star Trek or anywhere else.

You claim not to hate gay people, but yet say they have NO PLACE IN SOCIETY!  That is not even in the same zip code as logic. Do you even realize how ridiulous that sounds? 

You tell me not to judge your faith, yet you judge homosexuals as wrong.

You claim you've met "a lot of people like me". What you claim is "bigotry" is simply intolerance of discrimination. Christians are not necessarily bigots. HOMOPHOBIC Christians are. 

I don't judge your faith. I judge your intolerance, your hypocrisy and your homophobia. I judge you because you seek to deny others of their rights. I judge you because every time you say being gay is "wrong" and has no place in society, you are just as guilty as those who physically attack gay men and women.  You are an enabler. You validate their violence. You, and others like you, have the blood of all the murdered gay men and women on your hands. Every person who is beaten to death because they are gay is your responsibility. Every suicide that happens because a young person thinks they are a freak is because of people like you.

 

Again, you mistake my lack of tolerance of the ACT as lack of tolerance for the PEOPLE. That's what's wrong with everyone these days, they can't separate the two. I'm not in to labels, ok? The act does not make the man, in my opinion. You label me as a homophobe, when you don't know the first thing about me, or how I interact with the homosexual community.

 

You're a bigot, plain and simple. You hate me because I don't agree with you, when in fact, you should realize that we BOTH have love for ALL people. You just can't see past the fact that I'm a Christian, and that my friend is a sad, sad thing. You think you have some cause, some banner to fly in the face of all those who "oppress" others, but you're just a bully like all the rest. You use your own anger and insecurity to judge other people for what they believe, but the fact is you can't see past your own mirror.

 

For future reference, I have said my piece on this subject. Berate me further if you wish, I will not indulge you.


I never said I hated you. You're makin assumptions. You also assume I can't see past your religion when I really don't care about that.  I don't hate YOU I hate your opinion on this matter. I have no anger or insecurity, but yes, I do judge you and others like you for this opinion. You are entitled to have your opinion but I'm entitiled to dislike that opinion

chator56

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POSTS: 498

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 1:26 pm

I think Guardian Angel was responding to Bunkey, not you, willowtree.

bunkey

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Report this Jun. 19 2013, 1:32 pm

You believe homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. It's not, it's who you are when you're born. So if you aren't  tolerant of the act of homosexual relationships, you're intolerant of homosexuals. There is no separation. Being gay is part of your identity. You think "the act" as you call it is what it boils down to. There's a lot more to being gay than two men having anal sex or two women having oral sex. Do you really think it's that simplistic?? Someone doesn't just wake up and say "I think I like buttsex with another man so much that I'm going to risk my career, my family, my friends and choose to be gay." No 15 year old boy wakes up and chooses to be gay, which includes getting beat up at school, made fun of, and rejected by their own family. Being gay/straight/bisexual/transgender is not a choice. There is no cure.  Anyone who says they were "cured" or are a "reformed homosexual" is someone who has been brainwashed, guilted and bullied into doing so. There is NO such thing as a cure. You cannot pray the gay away. Gods you're so ignorant on this issue. You're right, I know nothing about how you interact with the LGBT community, but your statements tell me all I need to know.


A bigot is someone who is intolerant of a group. I have no problem with Christians on the whole.  I have a problem with you and other homophobes like you who continue to say that being gay is "wrong".  You don't love all people.  You may think you do but you don't.  I can't see past you as a homophobe. Everything you type drips with homphobia even if you don't realize it.  You have no idea how harmful your intolerance is on society.  I have no insecurities to compensate for. I do have anger. People like you piss me off. Oh and the poor Christian is being bullied. Boo hoo. Maybe if you stop judging others on and calling love "wrong" then I'll get off your case.


You said yourself that homosexuals have no place on Star Trek or anywhere else. If that's not hatred I don't know what is.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

Sora

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POSTS: 2606

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 1:33 pm

Quote: GuardianAngel1 @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:41 pm

Quote: willowtree @ Jun. 19 2013, 12:27 pm

>

>

>Please go back and reread. Nobody called anyone a bigot for being a Christian. I think you need to look up the word bigot. Here, I'll do it for you

>    From the Webster dictionary: "One who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance"

>That clearly defines the people who have posted their hate filled anti gay nonsense.

>So, you're saying that no one has treated any Christian faith or belief within this thread with hatred or intolerance? Perhaps you should be the one to go back and re-read.

>Just no gay people.

>How the hell can you talk about being openmindedness, coexistence, and such and still say that there can't be gay people. That's kind of the oposite of what you just said

>so you think that homosexuality is morally wrong, they can't get married and they will spend eternity in burning hellfire....but you don't hate them  LOL

>

So, you're saying that no one has treated any Christian faith or belief within this thread with hatred or intolerance? Perhaps you should be the one to go back and re-read.

I never said there can't be gay people. I said I don't agree with the lifestyle. Two very different things, as sexual orientation is a choice, not an inherited trait. And before you start a war on that subject, there is no possible way to prove nor disprove either side of that argument, becayse it's theoretical. I know people who have changed their lifestyles and have said from their own mouths that being gay was a choice. I believe them.

No, I don't hate them. Sin has consequences, and PEOPLE choose those consequences for themselves. If I murder someone in cold blood and don't repent, God does not hate me for it, but the consequence of sin is hell, and I would've been the one to choose it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle, a choice that people make. I do not hate the people who make those choices, I hate the choices they make. No true Christian takes pleasure in the concept of hell, let me make that very clear. The Bible says that hell was never intended for people, but ONLY for satan and the angels that followed him. However, by choosing to sin, we send ourselves there, and that's not on God, nor Christians. That's on the individual.


Extremely well stated. I enjoyed your explanation of everything.


Live Long and Prosper

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 1:52 pm

And answer me this. What's so sinful about being gay, anyway? Who does it hurt? Where's the harm?  Don't you think if god REALLY thought it was sin he would have thrown that in with the commandments? 


Thou shalt not kill? Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not lie? All make sense. He threw adultery in there for good measure. Why not homosexuality? Maybe it's not that important.


Aside from your precious moral values, how is being gay harmful? Who does it hurt? Why would a so called loving god condemn people as sinners for simply loving each other? Does it cause pain to others? Does it damage property? Does it kill people? Does it steal? Does it cause the economy to crash?


A sin is something that causes harm to others. Lying, cheating, stealing. How is loving someone a sin? Why is love a sin?  And don't give me any circular reasons as in "It's against god" or "It's unnatural". There are lots of straight sex acts that are "unnatural", kids. I did some last Tuesday. I want a valid, logical reason why homosexuality is sinful.


 

shaun.black.5895

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Report this Jun. 19 2013, 3:52 pm

To the christians in the star trek community, here is what picard thinks of you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6NPq_kPSUM

chator56

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 498

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 4:10 pm

In Star Trek there is no God or Gods, only alien beings with superior strength, and abilities to manipulate space, time and matter. Like in the Sherlock Holmes novels, and stories, there is a scientific or rational explanation behind apparent supernatural phenomena. In many cases, these alien beings are unworthy of our worship. Examples include TOS episode, Who Mourns For Adonis? and TNG episodes involving Q, such as Encounter at Farpoint, the episode involving Ardra, Devil's Due, among others.

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