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A very thoughtful article about the casting choices in Star Trek Into Darkness

fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this May. 23 2013, 8:53 pm

Quote: bunkey @ May. 23 2013, 2:30 pm

>

>The blogs are to illustrate my point because I am sick of explaining the same thing to different people and were not research citations or so called "back up"

>Montalban was not white. By no means was he considered white by anyone in Hollywood.  You're splitting hairs to form a weak, racist defense. And you're basing race on skin color as in saying he wasn't brown enough to be Latino. That is some sorry bullshit and offensive.  I know Columbians and Domincans that are gingers and they're not "white". They're Latinos and proud of it.  I know Puerto Ricans with light skin and green eyes. They are not white. On that argument we could say Zoe Saladana wasn't black enough to be Uhura because she's mixed.

>As far as casting, you know they called Cumberbatch to fill the role because Abrams liked Sherlock, right? There was no casting call.  It's not like they auditioned every single Indian actor in Hollywood and they all sucked.  He was called to fill in for Benecio Del Toro (another problematic casting choice) when he dropped out. They chose Cumberbatch. End of story.  Whitewashing.

>So one writer is Jewish and the other Latino? And....? Does that make them automatically exempt from whitewashing? Like being Jewish or Latino exempts you from racism or whitewashing?  And the writers have little say in casting. They write. Directors and producers cast.

>It was institutionalized racism that has been in practice for decades and your nitpicky arguments to attempt to justify it is part of the reason why it continues. 

>It's yet another example of how Desi people are cast aside and undervalued in real life and Hollywood.  

>


First of all, Desi? Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term in that context.


If it is institutionalized racism, and I'm not convinced that it is, then it is a misstep and Hollywood should be blamed for it. But, I have yet to see evidence that it was deliberate whitewashing. I'll want an official statement from Abrams and Co for their reason before I jump on the racist bandwagon. I'm funny that way


It doesn't affect how I feel about Cumberbatch or his role in the movie. I think there is room in canon for Khan's race to change.


Sorry, I should boycott Trek for being racist. I might have to stop watching it altogether.

Somniac

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POSTS: 462

Report this May. 24 2013, 6:35 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 23 2013, 9:45 am

Quote: Somniac @ May. 23 2013, 5:48 am

>

>

>BTW, anyone with the name Singh is going to be a Sikh.

>

and if we could be sure that was his "REAL" name you might have a point.

Khan was a lab experament, we dont know what his real name waa.


Whoa. Some straw grabbing really going on now.


What other people think of you is none of your business.

Somniac

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POSTS: 462

Report this May. 24 2013, 6:39 am

" Montalban was ethnically Latino while being racially white"


 


Huh???


What........a.........giveaway!!


There goes your argument.  


"there would still be no evidence that such a thing was done for racist reasons"


Not done for racist reasons. Done for audience and money reasons by which racial awareness and conscience was sacrificed. 


 "Given that one of the writers of STID is of Jewish heritage and the other of Latino heritage, I think you'd have a hard time making that argument."


 


Now this is really nonsense. You obviously know nothing about the history of the Hollywood studios.


 


 


 


 


 


What other people think of you is none of your business.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 24 2013, 11:01 am

First of all, Desi? Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term in that context.


Desi.


If it is institutionalized racism, and I'm not convinced that it is, then it is a misstep and Hollywood should be blamed for it. But, I have yet to see evidence that it was deliberate whitewashing. I'll want an official statement from Abrams and Co for their reason before I jump on the racist bandwagon. I'm funny that way


The fact that Abrams has not addressed it despite the fact that many high profile sites should give you a hint of how many f$cks Abrams has to give about anything but money.


You really need Abrams to admit it was whitewashing for you to believe it was whitewashing? That's not how racism works.  


I've really come to the conclusion that most Star Trek fans truly have their heads in the sand. There's refusal to even CONSIDER the fact that it was whitewashed.  Whitewashing is not necessarily some studio executive sitting in his office, evilly plotting to rid all movies of POC.  It's the practice of disregarding POC roles in favor of white roles. It's undervaluing POC. It's lack of conscience.  Which is what Abrams did. 


And everyone who marginalizes it is complicit in it's continue practice.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 24 2013, 12:07 pm

Quote: fireproof78 @ May. 23 2013, 8:46 pm

>Or, the writers would be called insensitive, blind and ignorant as well.

>A person of color, regardless of ethnic background, being portrayed as a terrorist, would be considered, in our wonderful world of political correctness, to be alienating, whether that is accurate or not. The fact of the matter is, people worried about "The Two Towers" being too touchy of name, Starbucks had to pull an add due to it looking like a 9/11 reference.

>I really wouldn't underestimate people's ability to blow up any little perceived slight.


If they're going to shy away from 9/11 imagery with "brown" terrorists, then why include in your face 9/11 reminders, such as a terrorist attack on London?  It's contradictory.  And Khan was more than a terrorist. He was far more complex.


Sarcasm is my native language.
JJ Abrams is not of the body.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 24 2013, 12:33 pm

Quote: Somniac @ May. 24 2013, 6:35 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ May. 23 2013, 9:45 am

Quote: Somniac @ May. 23 2013, 5:48 am

>

>

>

>BTW, anyone with the name Singh is going to be a Sikh.

>

and if we could be sure that was his "REAL" name you might have a point.

Khan was a lab experament, we dont know what his real name waa.

Whoa. Some straw grabbing really going on now.

how aso?


was he not the product of genetic science?


the only fact we know for saure is that he was not created as the rest of us.


So, nothing about his birth, and how he grew up can be assumed.


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bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 24 2013, 1:23 pm

You're still grasping for thin canon reasons to justify real world whitewashing.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 24 2013, 1:52 pm

Quote: bunkey @ May. 24 2013, 1:23 pm

>

>You're still grasping for thin canon reasons to justify real world whitewashing.

>
no, your just despratly trying to twist things to make it look that way.


the canon is solid, period and nothing in the fictional world can justify anything in the real world.


simpilly put, canon allows for such a change because no solid answer was ever givin.


but your problem is not with canon, its with the directors actions, so I maybe you shouldn't make comments that include specifically canon issues.


 


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bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 24 2013, 2:25 pm

Yes it's just me trying to "twist" it, not dozens of bloggers, advocate groups and media sites. It's just me.


What canon is solid?  That Khan never specifically states that he's from India?  That's not solid by any definition of the word. Khan was Indian. It was so obvious that a person would have to be blind not to see it. And every sentence you write is supporting whitewashing.  You refuse to even consider that Hollywood ignored the history of Khan in order to cast a white man because JJ Abrams liked Sherlock.  It's sad when people refuse to have an honest dialogue about racism so that maybe something can be done about it and positive action could be taken.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 24 2013, 5:30 pm

I'm not having this conversation with dozens of bloggers, advocate groups and or media sites. I just having this conversation with you.And thou I have stated more then several times that I am not commenting or supporting any real world issues related to the casting you continue to try to drag me into your battle over it/


So yes, it is just you trying to 'twist' things and my words


What canon is solid?  the canon I cited.


that no where in space eed or twok, is his ethinc back ground ever defintivly stated.


and yes, Khan never specifically states that he's from India and yes indeed that is solid, unless you can find where in the episode he states ck\learly where he was born.


hhe ony thing we know for sure was that Khan was a product of genetic engerneering and selective breeding.


maybe he had some Indian. maybe he has dna from a dozen other cultures, we have no way of knowing for sure.


you claim its obvious to "SEE" he was Indian to the degree that a person would have to be blind not to see it. .............but based on sight alone, Khan looked hispnic not Indian, so your argument fails there.


nothing I have stated supports or condems whitewashing....as I already stated, I refuse partake in such a conversationt, they never seem to go anywhere, they depend on negitivity and leave postive in their wake.


I dont come here to debate real world problems,.....I have enough real world problems to deal with on a daily basesI COME HERE TO DEBATE THE FANTACY WORLD OF STAR TREK.


now I have shown you more then enough resepect on this issue, I have not insulted you for having such a pashion for what you feel was a grave mis-deed, nor have I suggested you get over it.


so I request you return the favor and leave me out of your conversations about the real world issues.


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bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this May. 24 2013, 5:43 pm

Whitewashing is a real world problem that cannot be erased by grasping at canon.  Fantasy does not erase reality. The fact that the Federation is not a currency based economy doesn't cancel out the recession. 


If you want to be left out of conversations, don't post in a thread that's about a real world issue.  

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 24 2013, 6:08 pm

 


I wasnt trying to erase the real world problem of Whitewashing, I wasnt even addresing it in any way.


I have enough real world problem to deal with, which is why I endulge in the fantacy worlds of trek.


not sure why you even brought up the economy issue.


My post was a reply to something Somniac posted, the part of the conversation I replid to had NOTHING TO DO about a real world issue....it was about the characters name........AND THATS A CANON ISSUE.


so you need to learn how to follow a conversation.


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darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 386

Report this May. 24 2013, 6:46 pm

Can everyone just agree to disagree that the whitewashing issue could have easily been avoided by going with an original villain? I mean, can anyone defend the re-hashing of Khan?

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this May. 24 2013, 6:58 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ May. 24 2013, 6:46 pm

>

>Can everyone just agree to disagree that the whitewashing issue could have easily been avoided by going with an original villain? I mean, can anyone defend the re-hashing of Khan?

>
i think you are 100% right about that.


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OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this May. 24 2013, 9:09 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ May. 24 2013, 6:46 pm

>

>Can everyone just agree to disagree that the whitewashing issue could have easily been avoided by going with an original villain?

>


That's what I was saying last night! (page #4 of this thread)


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

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