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Court is in SESSION- To convict JJ Abrams of Trek Treason

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Created by: He'sDeadJim6400

crellmoset

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 116

Report this May. 17 2013, 12:21 pm

I hate to have to correct you, but you are the one in denial. You've blatantly ignored all the various reasons that Khan could be Caucasian in favor of your view point. You're claiming knowledge of what Roddenberry would think and want while he's not here to correct you. You're not accepting that your bitter rants are pointless, mean nothing, and will never change anything.

You're essentially that black knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail hopping around screaming that you're winning while clearly mutilated and powerless.

Your desperate need to cling to a bizarre and entirely inconsequential hatred harms only yourself.

Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this May. 17 2013, 12:46 pm

What evidence was presented that Khan was white?  Convince me that he was white. Don't say "nothing exists to prove he was Indian",  present me with instances in Space Seed that support your claim, as I did with his clothing, name, ect.  And what message do you think Roddenberry was trying to send with the specific charaters in Space Seed? 


And anyway, that aside,  think this is about "power"?  Do you think this is about "winning"? Then you're entirely missing the point.  Talking about a practice on Hollywood that is common and widely ignored because it's been done for decades and people let it happen is not about winning.  It's about raising awareness to social inequality in Hollywood entertainment.  Or maybe I'm imagining that too?  It's about pointing out an action and saying "this is wrong, people need to discuss it."  It's about opening dialogues that touch uncomfortable topics.  That's not "inconsequential hatred".  Being aware of practices that are discriminatory, be they intentional or consequential is not harmful at all, to anyone, except those who are complicit in those practices.  

crellmoset

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 116

Report this May. 17 2013, 12:58 pm

Your attempt to twist my words will not matter. I did not say that Khan was white, I said that he could have been. As I've already stated the various reasons that's possible only to have you blatantly ignore them I'm not listing them again for you.

This is clearly about winning for you. Since your arrival here, if you were not someone else before, you've relentlessly been at this subject.

And as for Roddenberry, the man is now dead. Don't put your words into his mouth. I'm sure that Khan's appearance and everything had more to do with the fame and appearance of the actor and a desire for money than it had to do with making people think that the people of India could conquer the world.

Interestingly none of us need a superficial reminder that color does not control intellect or strength or capabilities. Why is it that *you* need a superficial reminder so desperately?

Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this May. 17 2013, 1:13 pm

You're right, I have been relentless on this subject.  And I will continue to be. I will continue to voice counterarguments.  I disagree with what JJ Abrams has done to Star Trek.  It's not about winning, it's about voicing an opinion even if it goes against the grain.  I'm not going to apologize for that. I have not personally attacked anyone. I have not called anyone names.  I have simply strongly weighed in on subjects, I am the minority, but I don't have a problem with speaking my mind.  It's not about winning, it's about not being bullied into silence.  You don't like me, or specifically, what I have to say? That's your right.  But I will not be quiet because of it.


Khan could have been white. He also "could have been" a changeling.  But all signs point to Indian. And that legacy should have been respected. 


I don't "desperately" need to be reminded of anything. I do, however, need to point out inequal casting practices in Hollywood and stir discussion about it.

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this May. 17 2013, 2:41 pm

[quote]


You're right, I have been relentless on this subject.  And I will continue to be. I will continue to voice counterarguments.  I disagree with what JJ Abrams has done to Star Trek.  It's not about winning, it's about voicing an opinion even if it goes against the grain.  I'm not going to apologize for that. I have not personally attacked anyone. I have not called anyone names.  I have simply strongly weighed in on subjects, I am the minority, but I don't have a problem with speaking my mind.  It's not about winning, it's about not being bullied into silence.  You don't like me, or specifically, what I have to say? That's your right.  But I will not be quiet because of it.


Khan could have been white. He also "could have been" a changeling.  But all signs point to Indian. And that legacy should have been respected. 


I don't "desperately" need to be reminded of anything. I do, however, need to point out inequal casting practices in Hollywood and stir discussion about it.


[/quote]


The Prosecution appreciates your input, you are our star witness, do not be swayed by the defense, you show good judgement so voice it, you are smart and wise and yes Kahn origins were of mideast descent, the only real reason why he's white and British is Paramounts appeal to please overseas audiences, we do not really blame Abrams for Kahns race, he probably was following his bosses , still the fact remains he has turned Star Trek upside down, and made it very unrealistic.   


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this May. 17 2013, 2:47 pm

Before  we have closing Statements and vote based on the polls from this thread, with the undecided votes  turning  over to the Guilty votes..Some of you claim the Prosecution has not answer your questions, this is a fair trial, the court wishes you pose your questions now, 2 at a time.  


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

crellmoset

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 116

Report this May. 17 2013, 3:18 pm

[quote]

Before  we have closing Statements and vote based on the polls from this thread, with the undecided votes  turning  over to the Guilty votes..Some of you claim the Prosecution has not ansrating ngyour questions, this is a fair trial, the court wishes you pose your questions now, 2 at a time.  

[/quote]

 

Laughable. I'm not listing yet again all the things that have already bounced off of your skulls over and over again. And since the 2009 movie has an average rating of 95% and the new movie has a rating of nearly 90% we'll just take those undecided votes for innocent. We'll even add a bunch of imaginary votes to innocent to mock this juvenile court, its circumstantial at best evidence, and its lame witnesses.

You've lost somewhere way more important than here; the real world.

Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this May. 17 2013, 3:46 pm

Honestly, Rotten Tomatoes and people who review movies for a living have no effect on me. I've loved movies they hated and vice versa.  I don't let the media dictate my taste.  Shitty movies can make big money and good movies can lose out.


Besides, Rotten Tomatoes has had some issues with indie filmmakers similar to Yelp when it comes to their "unbiased" ratings.  And if you are going to take it as gospel, then I assume you'd accuse the reviewers who gave it a Rotten rating as being lost in reality as well?


 

crellmoset

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 116

Report this May. 17 2013, 3:53 pm

There you go again, trying to hand out words to other people's mouths. I didn't say that anything was gospel. You're the one that has the problem of thinking that way.

Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this May. 17 2013, 4:00 pm

Well you keep quoting ratings as if they're meant to sway personal opinion, so it's natural to conclude that you put a great deal of value on them.

crellmoset

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 116

Report this May. 17 2013, 4:37 pm

I place a moderate amount pound value on average reviews. The more extreme the average review the more weight that average should carry. 95% is a difficult rating to achieve. While no average rating is gospel this one carries more weight than a ranting minority determined to make themselves into the turd in the punch bowl of the real Star Trek fans.

Ethics are arbitrary.

bunkey

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 686

Report this May. 17 2013, 5:34 pm

why do you think if you dislike NuTrek you're not a "real Star Trek" fan?

poundpuppy29

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POSTS: 96

Report this May. 17 2013, 6:28 pm

I haven't seen the newest ST movie yet but I am sure JJ is innocent of treason I loved the last movie and I am reading good things about this movie sure it is different but it is enjoyable and entertaining and that is what I love about scifi I love action adventure with a little bit of comedy in my scifi


 photo STcomfinalIRRH2.jpg poundpuppy29 AKA Erika My Fav Scifi /Fantasy T.V. Shows, Movies, My Franchises, My Fav Ships, My Fav Characters & My Sports Teams & My Fav Sitcom

fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this May. 17 2013, 9:09 pm

Well, I step away and this thread escalates rather quickly.


I will agree with Bunkey on the point that if they made Khan white (haven't seen the movie so will withhold judgement) then it was a stupid decision. Was it racist? Possibly, though I have pointed out, in another thread, that there may have been other reasons they made the change, so I will not so quickly call them racist.


However, if it was an act of racism, this act is no worse than any other perputated in Star Trek history. I have waited and waited for someone, anyone, to give me a coherent reason as to why Abrams Trek is "not Trek" or worse than other Trek incarnations. I have yet to see any sort of treasonous behavior on the part of Abrams, since someone, in Trek history, has done exactly what he is doing now. He's just using modern tools to do it with.


If Abrams Trek is not to your liking I am fine with that. I don't think that makes it "not Trek"

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this May. 17 2013, 9:32 pm

[quote]


Well, I step away and this thread escalates rather quickly.


I will agree with Bunkey on the point that if they made Khan white (haven't seen the movie so will withhold judgement) then it was a stupid decision. Was it racist? Possibly, though I have pointed out, in another thread, that there may have been other reasons they made the change, so I will not so quickly call them racist.


However, if it was an act of racism, this act is no worse than any other perputated in Star Trek history. I have waited and waited for someone, anyone, to give me a coherent reason as to why Abrams Trek is "not Trek" or worse than other Trek incarnations. I have yet to see any sort of treasonous behavior on the part of Abrams, since someone, in Trek history, has done exactly what he is doing now. He's just using modern tools to do it with.


If Abrams Trek is not to your liking I am fine with that. I don't think that makes it "not Trek"


[/quote]


The Prosecution shall answer the inquiry


 Why is Abrams Trek not Trek ? It is the repeated changes he made abruptly and without reason, sure the last movie made money and was a hit to  some non Trekkers, but things we closly associate with TOS are not in his movies, such the destruction of Vulcan, The Spock and Uhura romance, the Star Wars type design of the bridge, Kahns race is changed and chracters we are familiar with that are not there and some are, no canon or continuity whatsoever, in other words while other Treks are tied into the franchise and other series, this one is not, even though "Into Darkness" has several nods to TOS, the story and chracters has flat appeal and nothing new or interesting is introduced in this new universe to look forward to,it's just an excitable action movie to many this is treasonous against Trek. 


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

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