ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Klingon battle cruiser/Romulans

lonstar70

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Apr. 17 2013, 8:25 pm

Aside from The Enterprise, I think the Klingon D7 Battle cruiser is outstanding in its design. The Romulan ship was simple in it's design and that worked too. So, why is it that other than "Balance of Terror" the Romulan ships suddenly look like the aforementioned Klingon battle cruiser? I know, I know...Chekov says something about "intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon configuration".


 


Now, I don't buy that. It has since been explained away that the Klingons and Romulans had signed a treaty and were allies. I find that very hard to believe.


I may have read this somewhere, or dreamed it, but it's my feeling that for technological limitations, the special effects couldnt use the Romulan ship model because it was broken, or something.


Does anybody here know the real story?

2takesfrakes

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3683

Report this Apr. 18 2013, 3:16 pm

I do NOT know the story behind that
C0$T-$AVING manuever, but I've always
hated how Romulans were using Klingon
ships! It was just lame. I would've much
prefered them simply being cloaked
and messaging their threats to the
ENTERPRISE. Oh, well. It's all make-
believe, folks ...


Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Apr. 18 2013, 8:02 pm

The model for the D7 was expensive to make, and they needed to get their money's worth.


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Enterprise_Incident_%28episode%29#Props_and_sets


The remastered version replaced one of the D7s with a Bird-of-Prey, but I think they should have replaced the other two as well and cut out the mentions of the Klingons.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 18 2013, 9:51 pm

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 17 2013, 8:25 pm

> It has since been explained away that the Klingons and Romulans had signed a treaty and were allies. I find that very hard to believe.


why do you find that hard to believe?


Photobucket

CountJohn

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 177

Report this Apr. 19 2013, 12:35 pm

^I don't think it's hard to believe either. The intense emnity between Klingons and Romulans didn't really start untill the "in between" Enterprise B and C era. They both hated the Federation/Humans far more than each other in TOS.

lonstar70

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Apr. 19 2013, 10:36 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 18 2013, 9:51 pm

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 17 2013, 8:25 pm

>

> It has since been explained away that the Klingons and Romulans had signed a treaty and were allies. I find that very hard to believe.

why do you find that hard to believe?


 


Why do I find it hard to believe? Because it makes no sense. At all. You think the Klingons are just going to GIVE the Romulans some D7 Battle-cruisers?


Klingons- "Here ya go guys. Have some of our most advanced ships. When you're done with them, make sure you return them without a scratch and the fuel tanks full. Huh? No, no.. we're not interested in conquering and taking what we want from you, just go ahead and have some fun with our ships. You seem like a really honorable species. By the way, can we get your cloaking device technology? No, we won't use it against you. We promise. Have fun, see ya in about 80 years."


It's obvious that at the time, there was a budgetary, and NOT a story reason, that the producers used the Klingon models to depict the Romulans. They down played the whole "Klingon configuration" thing in just a few seconds of plot. Also, between the 80 or so years between TOS and TNG, the Romulans "disappeared" for 50 years or so. During this time frame, the Klingons joined the Federation. SO that makes it even LESS likely that they had some sort of treaty with the Rommies. And CONSTANTLY in TNG the Klingons couldn't hide their disgust of the "dishonorable" Romulans. And in the interim, a Klingon (Worf) is serving as a Starfleet Officer for the Federation on their flagship. Meanwhile, the Romulans taunt Picard in a first season episode..."We are BACK, Captain!"


So..there ya go. THAT is why I find it "hard to believe".


 


TECHNICAL NOTE: In the remastered TOS episode of this episode ("The Enterprise Incident"), they updated the special effects to show that 2 of the 3 ships surrounding the Enterprise were indeed the same Romulan type of ship seen in "Balance of Terror", instead of 3 Klingon D7's in the original one. So that proves to me that they would have used Romulan models for the special effects at the time, if they could have. I mean, look/listen to how little the Enterprise crew seems to give a crap when they see Romulans operating Klingon ships. It's because it didn't pertain to the story at all. They simply used the Klingon models for budgetary or technical reasons. And they also didn't know that a geek like me would be nitpicking their episode 40 years later.


 


 

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 20 2013, 10:42 am

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 19 2013, 10:36 pm

>Why do I find it hard to believe? Because it makes no sense. At all. You think the Klingons are just going to GIVE the Romulans some D7 Battle-cruisers?


then I would say you have a poor imagination, no offence or insult intended.Consider possible territorial exchanges, intelligence on the federation swapping hands, weapon upgrades.


oh, and by the way,, The Romulans did indeed give the klingons cloaking tech inexchange for the D-7 spec's according to Geene Rodenberry and the TNG Technial Journal.


It's obvious that at the time, there was a budgetary, and NOT a story reason,


obvious, but at least they later concived a reasonable answer to the question that fits the issue.


The klingons werent strong enough to fight both the federation and the Romulans, so "the enemy of my enemy becomes my friend".The exchasnge of a few D-7's for cloaking tech seems to be a perfect trade.


Also, between the 80 or so years between TOS and TNG, the Romulans "disappeared" for 50 years or so. During this time frame, the Klingons joined the Federation. SO that makes it even LESS likely that they had some sort of treaty with the Rommies.


Sorry but that conclusion doesnt fit the facts we know.


To begin with, the Klingon/romulan alliance was durring the TOS era, the days of Kirk on trhe 1701.The Klkingons didnt join thge federation at asll.They just signed a peace treaty.


Also, the Romulans never really "disapeared"We know that durring trhe 80 years between TOS and TNG that the Romulans had dealings with the Klingons and the Caddsians.It seems the just had little to do with the Federation.


And CONSTANTLY in TNG the Klingons couldn't hide their disgust of the "dishonorable" Romulans.


yes, because they attacked klingon ships and outpost while they were supposed to be allies.


 


 


Photobucket

lonstar70

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Apr. 20 2013, 2:25 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 20 2013, 10:42 am

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 19 2013, 10:36 pm

>

>Why do I find it hard to believe? Because it makes no sense. At all. You think the Klingons are just going to GIVE the Romulans some D7 Battle-cruisers?

then I would say you have a poor imagination, no offence or insult intended.Consider possible territorial exchanges, intelligence on the federation swapping hands, weapon upgrades.

oh, and by the way,, The Romulans did indeed give the klingons cloaking tech inexchange for the D-7 spec's according to Geene Rodenberry and the TNG Technial Journal.

It's obvious that at the time, there was a budgetary, and NOT a story reason,

obvious, but at least they later concived a reasonable answer to the question that fits the issue.

The klingons werent strong enough to fight both the federation and the Romulans, so "the enemy of my enemy becomes my friend".The exchasnge of a few D-7's for cloaking tech seems to be a perfect trade.

Also, between the 80 or so years between TOS and TNG, the Romulans "disappeared" for 50 years or so. During this time frame, the Klingons joined the Federation. SO that makes it even LESS likely that they had some sort of treaty with the Rommies.

Sorry but that conclusion doesnt fit the facts we know.

To begin with, the Klingon/romulan alliance was durring the TOS era, the days of Kirk on trhe 1701.The Klkingons didnt join thge federation at asll.They just signed a peace treaty.

Also, the Romulans never really "disapeared"We know that durring trhe 80 years between TOS and TNG that the Romulans had dealings with the Klingons and the Caddsians.It seems the just had little to do with the Federation.

And CONSTANTLY in TNG the Klingons couldn't hide their disgust of the "dishonorable" Romulans.

yes, because they attacked klingon ships and outpost while they were supposed to be allies.

 

 


 


Well you asked why I found it hard to believe, and I just told you.


You don't have to be insulting and say I have "no imagination." I think that people like me that ask questions have imagination in ABUNDANCE. I think it's the people who just take whatever is spoon fed to them and accept it are the ones with little imagination.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 20 2013, 2:51 pm

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 20 2013, 2:25 pm

>Well you asked why I found it hard to believe, and I just told you.

>You don't have to be insulting and say I have "no imagination." I think that people like me that ask questions have imagination in ABUNDANCE. I think it's the people who just take whatever is spoon fed to them and accept it are the ones with little imagination.


 


ike I said, I didnt mean it to sound insulting so please forgive me for that


and its not like I only accepted their word there was an alliance, I did come up with the idea of possible exchanges of intel and territory.


After all, The Romulans gave the Federation a cloak for the Defiant in exchange they wanted intel about the Dominon......so it seems reasonable the Romulans did the same 80's before for some D-7s


again, sorry for how things sounded before


Photobucket

lonstar70

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Apr. 21 2013, 3:43 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 20 2013, 2:51 pm

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 20 2013, 2:25 pm

>

>Well you asked why I found it hard to believe, and I just told you.

>You don't have to be insulting and say I have "no imagination." I think that people like me that ask questions have imagination in ABUNDANCE. I think it's the people who just take whatever is spoon fed to them and accept it are the ones with little imagination.

 

ike I said, I didnt mean it to sound insulting so please forgive me for that

and its not like I only accepted their word there was an alliance, I did come up with the idea of possible exchanges of intel and territory.

After all, The Romulans gave the Federation a cloak for the Defiant in exchange they wanted intel about the Dominon......so it seems reasonable the Romulans did the same 80's before for some D-7s

again, sorry for how things sounded before


 


It's all good. Actually, my main point was initially supposed to be how I thought the Klingon D7 is my favorite ship design, aside from the refit Enterprise introduced in ST:TMP. I see now that there is already a thread asking opinions about designs. I should have just posted there, and not brought up the Romulans using Klingon ships.


But while we are on the subject, I was basing my thoughts that a Klingon-Romulan alliance and trading of technology to be "hard to believe" was that I was only talking about Star Trek UP TO THAT EPISODE. Notice, I did post this in the TOS section. It seems like your argument against mine comes from something like 700 hours of post TOS Star Trek series and books. But like I said, my ideas and opinions came from the fact that I was basing it on 60 episodes. In the episode in question, it just seemed silly to me that Starfleet gave Kirk orders based on intel, to go get that cloaking device. Would intel have not also shown that the Klingons and Rommies had joined forces? Even Chekov says, "Intel shows Romulans using Klingon configuration". And nothing else. Also there were no Klingons in the episode. I would think if there was an alliance we'd see some Klingon influence in what the Romulans say and do. As one of the above posters mentioned, for the remaster all they would have to do is cut that ONE line from Chekov, and make all 3 ships Romulan. As it stands, they did make it 1 Klingon ship and 2 Rommies in the remaster as opposed to just 3 Klingon ships.


Look, I think it's obvious that at the time, they had budget and technical reasons for doing what they did, and threw in the 1 line from Chekov to at least TRY to explain why they didn't use any Romulan models in that episode. I doubt anybody really cared at this point as it was the 3rd season and everyone knew it was going to be the last. No one on the planet could have conceived that Star Trek would be the cultural behemoth that it did.


I understand what YOU were/are trying to do... use subsequent Star Trek material to explain plot inconsistencies from previous material. Hell, the producers had to plug so many holes, it's almost comical. And even today, with no Star Trek left, you can still go back and find hole after hole. But, they did a fantastic job of plugging the huge holes.


So, now my ramblings are done, and, I think, this discussion. You just look at it from a different viewpoint than me. And that's fine.


I would say we have both made our case, and neither of us are "wrong".


Now..back to mt ST:TOS marathon! Thanks, Netflix!

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 21 2013, 4:50 pm

Netflix is great

pollard/st

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 39

Report this Apr. 21 2013, 6:38 pm

dont know if anyone has already said this, because i havnt taken the time to read through all of the posts above, but the reason for the shared design is because there was a breif alience beetween the romulans and klingons, around the time of tos, the klingons got cloaking technology, and the romulans got a dozenn or so katinga and d7 class ships, however for reasons never discused, it ended in mutual hatred, which lasts to this day.

lonstar70

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Apr. 21 2013, 7:31 pm

Quote: pollard/st @ Apr. 21 2013, 6:38 pm

>

>dont know if anyone has already said this, because i havnt taken the time to read through all of the posts above, but the reason for the shared design is because there was a breif alience beetween the romulans and klingons, around the time of tos, the klingons got cloaking technology, and the romulans got a dozenn or so katinga and d7 class ships, however for reasons never discused, it ended in mutual hatred, which lasts to this day.

>


 


OK, not getting into this again. Please read all of the posts. It was NEVER EVER said in TOS that there was an alliance. While subsequant episodes of other Star Trek shows and books may have indicated that there was such an alliance, that was never even touched upon in any TOS episode. Never even implied. Not once. Ever. Which what I based my argument against it on.


With 700+ hours of Star Trek material out there, you can practically make up your own history and make a claim you are right.


But I'm done with this thread.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 21 2013, 11:38 pm

Quote: lonstar70 @ Apr. 21 2013, 7:31 pm

>It was NEVER EVER said in TOS that there was an alliance. While subsequant episodes of other Star Trek shows and books may have indicated that there was such an alliance, that was never even touched upon in any TOS episode. Never even implied. Not once. Ever. Which what I based my argument against it on.


While I agree, it was never definitivly stated in TOS, I disagree that it was never implied.


Alone, the fact that Romulans were useing klingon ships is a strong implication of a possible aliance.


Granted it wouldnt be the only possible answer.


Photobucket

lonstar70

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Apr. 26 2013, 10:56 am

Again, I certainly feel that it would have been stated by Kirk. Intel would certainly have that information if they had enough intel for them to go and do something so bold as to steal a MAJOR piece of technology like a cloaking device.


 


But hey, I thought you and I were done with this. We can go back and ASSUME quite a lot in TOS episodes that this or that was this way or that. I'm interested in other subjects now. Let's warp outta this thread.

Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: darmokattanagra, TheDriver

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum