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When exactly does "Insurrection" take place?

Holo

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POSTS: 253

Report this Apr. 12 2013, 11:11 pm

Some dialogue in the film suggests the Dominion War is winding down, other dialogue makes it seem like the war is still in full swing. I've read a lot of people seem to think it takes place in the middle of "What You Leave Behind," but it doesn't really seem to fit in there, nor does it make sense for it to take place during "It's Only a Paper Moon," as others have claimed.


So when exactly was Worf absent from Deep Space Nine long enough to grow a gorch?


 

OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 13 2013, 12:34 am

I think that Insurrection happens just after the Dominion War, and perhaps Picard's comment "I don't know how they do things on DS9 but..." is conceivably a slip-up on his part. (Forgetting for the moment that Worf is a Federation ambassador -- which would afford him much more cause to travel away from those who were his fellow crewmembers.) The initial comment regarding "losses to the Borg and the Dominion" is also appropriate given that it was quite a recent war. Also the Son'a and the Federation are (albeit dubious) allies in Insurrection, whereas they were still working with the Dominion quite late in the war. Also Insurrection came out after DS9 finished.


 


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Ne vem

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Report this Apr. 13 2013, 9:01 am

It takes places sometime between the end of DS9 and Michael Dorn realising he can't get any other work.


Or probably just after the Dominion War has finished.


 


Why does no-one in Trek make zines?

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 14 2013, 5:07 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 13 2013, 12:34 am

>

>I think that Insurrection happens just after the Dominion War, and perhaps Picard's comment "I don't know how they do things on DS9 but..." is conceivably a slip-up on his part. (Forgetting for the moment that Worf is a Federation ambassador -- which would afford him much more cause to travel away from those who were his fellow crewmembers.) The initial comment regarding "losses to the Borg and the Dominion" is also appropriate given that it was quite a recent war. Also the Son'a and the Federation are (albeit dubious) allies in Insurrection, whereas they were still working with the Dominion quite late in the war. Also Insurrection came out after DS9 finished.

>
I'm shocked you got this one wrong buddy.


Insurection takes place in the middle of season 7, I'll go into that further in my next post.


Also, ST Insurrection was released on December 11, 1998 [in the states]


The final episode of DS9 first aired on June 2, 1999 [in the states]


 


 


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stovokor2000-A

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Report this Apr. 14 2013, 5:13 pm

Quote: Ne vem @ Apr. 13 2013, 9:01 am

>

>It takes places sometime between the end of DS9 and Michael Dorn realising he can't get any other work.

>Or probably just after the Dominion War has finished.


The film takes place in the middle of season 7, the year 2375


Between the events seen in DS9 episodes "its only a paper moon" and "Prodigal Daughter"


 


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OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 14 2013, 5:16 pm

ah ok. I did hear that it was the other way around, but stand corrected.


I will still assume however (based on the shift in the Son'a alliance-- and also I think there may have been a moment when Riker referenced the war in the past tense. Will have to re-watch at some point...) that in-universe, it must be after the Dominion War.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

2takesfrakes

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Report this Apr. 14 2013, 6:32 pm

It's good to see that someone else using these boards
enjoys INSURRECTION ... as much as I. Yes, this feature
is sometimes derailed because of certain shortcomings.
But I find this installment to be entertaining popcorn fare.
And wherever it fits into the timeline is fine ... just fine!


Holo

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Report this Apr. 14 2013, 7:58 pm

I never claimed to enjoy Insurrection , but I do watch every episode of Trek every couple of years and never skip it when its time comes around. If it were trimmed down to a double episode of TNG, I'd give it a B. As a film, I give it a C.


I'm beginning to think that the film can't possibly be pinpoitnted to a specific date because it's so full of self-contradictions. Maybe it's best just to watch it right after WYLB.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 3:28 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 14 2013, 5:16 pm

>

>ah ok. I did hear that it was the other way around, but stand corrected.

>I will still assume however (based on the shift in the Son'a alliance-- and also I think there may have been a moment when Riker referenced the war in the past tense. Will have to re-watch at some point...) that in-universe, it must be after the Dominion War.

>
Yes, you need to re-watch it.


The was war was mentioned early in the film, but NOT in the past tense".


Heres Rikers dialog


RIKER;The Diplomatic Corps is busy with Dominion negotiations.


doesnt sound "past tense" to me.The war was also mentioned in a 3 way conversation between Picard,Crusher and Troi


TROI:Remember; they have a significantly less advanced technology than ours... they only achieved warp drive last year...


CRUSHER;A year? And the Federation Coucil decided to make them a Protectorate already?


PICARD:In view of our losses to the Borg and the Dominion, the Coucil feels we need all the allies we can get these days.


BTW, if you read the script to this film you'll see that it was written to take place before Jadzia Dax was killed.


 


 

 


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stovokor2000-A

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Report this Apr. 15 2013, 3:32 am

Quote: Holo @ Apr. 14 2013, 7:58 pm

>I'm beginning to think that the film can't possibly be pinpoitnted to a specific date because it's so full of self-contradictions. Maybe it's best just to watch it right after WYLB.

>


I dont see anything that can be called a "self contradiction", do you mind going into that?


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OtakuJo

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Report this Apr. 15 2013, 6:36 am

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Apr. 15 2013, 3:28 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 14 2013, 5:16 pm

>

>

>ah ok. I did hear that it was the other way around, but stand corrected.

>I will still assume however (based on the shift in the Son'a alliance-- and also I think there may have been a moment when Riker referenced the war in the past tense. Will have to re-watch at some point...) that in-universe, it must be after the Dominion War.

>
Yes, you need to re-watch it.

The was war was mentioned early in the film, but NOT in the past tense".

Heres Rikers dialog

RIKER;The Diplomatic Corps is busy with Dominion negotiations.

doesnt sound "past tense" to me.The war was also mentioned in a 3 way conversation between Picard,Crusher and Troi

TROI:Remember; they have a significantly less advanced technology than ours... they only achieved warp drive last year...

CRUSHER;A year? And the Federation Coucil decided to make them a Protectorate already?

PICARD:In view of our losses to the Borg and the Dominion, the Coucil feels we need all the allies we can get these days.

BTW, if you read the script to this film you'll see that it was written to take place before Jadzia Dax was killed.

 


To be fair, "Dominion Negotiations" could still just as easily refer to post-war negotiations regarding the conditions of surrender. Also, Picard's comment could also be just as appropriate in a post-war setting. I'm sure that people were still talking about war losses in 1919. So both of those passages are still quite ambiguous as to whether the war is still occurring.


There is also the question of the Son'a alliance during the war: they are mentioned on the side of the Dominion as late as Prenumbra, where they are responsible for guarding a ketrecel white facility, and Riker mentions that they were responsible for "producing large quantities of the narcotic ketrecel white."


Again, this is ambiguous, but a post-war shift in alliances would make far more logical sense for the Son'a, and if they were producing the White and guarding Dominion facilities, it is unlikely that they were allied with the Federation at a point during the sixth season. So you see that, although it really isn't a big deal either way, it is certainly possible to interpret Insurrection as being post-Dominion War.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

UninvitedGuest

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POSTS: 180

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 12:40 pm

Star Trek:Insurrection takes place during the Dominion War which is why the movie is set mostly in that "Briar Patch" region of space. The plot of the movie would have been directly about the Dominion War if it took place out in open space, so the Briar Patch was a plot device for the Enterprise to hide from the war which was going on at the time.


 


 

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Apr. 15 2013, 10:35 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Apr. 15 2013, 6:36 am

>So you see that, although it really isn't a big deal either way, it is certainly possible to interpret Insurrection as being post-Dominion War.

>
I agree it can be taken that way, my point was that it wasnt defintivly stated in the past tense.


sorry for the mix up, but just to tuch un somw of your points..


The Son'a didnt really have an alliance with the Dominion.


The ketrecel white facility in question was their own not one that belonged to the Dominion.The Son'had a base in the Devos system where they were produsing the white for the Dominion as merchandise for sale, not as part of an alliance.


The Sona were willing to work with anyone if it profited them in some way.


And as I mentioned, the script shows the film was originally intended to take place before the idea of Jadzia death was known.


 


 


 


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2takesfrakes

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Report this Apr. 16 2013, 2:30 am

Quote: Holo @ Apr. 14 2013, 7:58 pm

> I never claimed to enjoy Insurrection ...


But ... you said ...


Ne vem

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POSTS: 40

Report this Apr. 16 2013, 7:25 am

Well, if it's set during season 7, what's Worf doing there? I remember he appears and starts explaining himself, but then Picard gets distracted and...why was Worf there? I can't think of one good reason except: Michael Dorn needs money.


Where is the Briar Patch? Is it near the Badlands? How does all that red gas just float in open space? Is there real science behind it or does it just look pretty?


And what's Worf doing there?


Why does no-one in Trek make zines?

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