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In Memoriam: British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 2:16 pm

Quote: T'Paul @ Apr. 11 2013, 12:06 am

>Maybe you've never stopped to think that if everyone had maximum personal liberty, it would ultimately mean that nobody has freedom, because under such circumstances everyone would be free to do to others as they wished, murder, rape, imprison, etc. Therefore when we talk about freedom, we are talking about our right to act only in relation to other people. It is only in relation to other people that we have any concept of freedom; if you were always alone it wouldn't matter what you did and so the concept of freedom would never even cross your mind.
I never suggested anarchy.  As the saying goes.... "if it neither picks my pocket or breaks my leg..."

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 2:20 pm

Quote: DS9TREK @ Apr. 11 2013, 6:34 am

Quote: Kornula @ Apr. 08 2013, 10:31 pm

>

>

>Sings..

>"DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!"

>

Why u mad though?

Oh right she beat the left every single time.

It amazes me how many Trekkies think that tyranny is good.  They prefer the Borg over the Federation.

Kornula

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 5:54 pm

DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!


 


Now she's in hell with Regan.

Kornula

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 5:56 pm

[quote]


Quote:

You thought that freedom was an American concept?
As I explained, I was a kid at the time.  I didn't know much about the rest of the world until Thatcher.  If you think about it.... how much world history does a youngster in the USA even get outside the major events like World Wars, etc.  Most of what I knew about European government was that they were almost all ran by monarchies - pretty much the opposite of liberty.  Even now, how many leaders do we know in the world that truly support liberty?


[/quote]


 


Maggie, like Regan, supported money - not life.   


 


To them ,and anyone who supports them, can rot in hell.

fireproof78

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 7:30 pm

Quote: Kornula @ Apr. 11 2013, 5:56 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>You thought that freedom was an American concept?
As I explained, I was a kid at the time.  I didn't know much about the rest of the world until Thatcher.  If you think about it.... how much world history does a youngster in the USA even get outside the major events like World Wars, etc.  Most of what I knew about European government was that they were almost all ran by monarchies - pretty much the opposite of liberty.  Even now, how many leaders do we know in the world that truly support liberty?

 

Maggie, like Regan, supported money - not life.   

 

To them ,and anyone who supports them, can rot in hell.


Why the hatred? What did Thatcher to do you, personally, that requires such vitriol, anger and vulgarity? If you disagree, fine, and let us discuss it, as has happened in several thread here. But, to immediately say "D@mn her!" is to not solidify any argument against her principles. It does disservice to the discussion.


If Obama were shot (and I pray he isn't) and conservatives started high fiving and celebrating in the streets, would that we regarded as acceptable?


For a different take other than the Thatcher hate, here is an oped piece from the UK: http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/margaret-thatcher/24403/how-margaret-thatcher-made-britain-great-again

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 8:58 pm

Quote: fireproof78 @ Apr. 11 2013, 7:30 pm

>If Obama were shot (and I pray he isn't) and conservatives started high fiving and celebrating in the streets, would that we regarded as acceptable?
You know the duplicity of the left....

darmokattanagra

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Report this Apr. 11 2013, 10:51 pm

If you disagree, fine, and let us discuss it, as has happened in several thread here. But, to immediately say "D@mn her!" is to not solidify any argument against her principles. It does disservice to the discussion.

T'Paul offered a pretty good argument which you and Bam both ignored:

She was a close supporter of the openly fascist dictator Auguste Pinochet who deposed an elected leader by force and then instituted an extermination program that assassinated thousands of people for their views, and she supported apartheid in South Africa even calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist. She was a war hawk and an imperialist. At home, under her leadership, for the first time anywhere in western world since the Depression, the poor got poorer. Unemployment skyrocketed as she gave handouts to the rich.

Ne vem

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Report this Apr. 12 2013, 8:52 am

Anarchism is often misunderstood because it's been demonised as a concept, just as socialism seems to have been in the US.


Socialism encourages greed and envy? Are you baiting or do you really believe that? I thought the main complaint towards socialism is that it encourages apathy/laziness - apparently, every single person who takes benefits or free healthcare is a cheat and the whole system is slapping normal hard-working people in the face. That's the rhetoric in the UK at the moment. I hope no-one's buying it, but they probably are cos the media just keeps shoving it in their faces again and again.


Unemployed benefit claimants are gonna be picking up £53 a week soon. Obviously that's enough for any person and anyone who says it's too low is a scrounger, says the Govt dude who makes over £100,000 a year. I know he makes this much because he got a tax break last year, given to him kindly by his boss, David Thatcheron. Yes, this is Thatcher's party I'm talking about, and they love her.


The only good thing you could say about Thatcher would be that the national UK industries were struggling badly when she privatised them, and they needed to be replaced. Maybe, maybe they could've recovered, no-one knows. But the way she did it, and the lack of alternatives for the hardest-hit areas, is what makes a lot of us Brits hate her. People just lost their jobs and the lack of State support made it almost impossible to re-train or be educated to do something different. She knocked them down and then kicked them in the face, and that's a lot of kicking/faces. Then she and her party clung onto to the few who managed to succeed despite her machinations and promoted them as proof she was right. 'They did it, so can all of you, what are you moaning about?' This kind of 'logic' would make a Vulcan's face explode [and probably the vulcans next to him too], it's ludicrous, but people buy into it.


And the fact that she tried to privatise the National Health Service too...


To bring it back to Trek, she made the UK into Ferenginar. Well, almost. She couldn't quite get rid of the welfare system, but she did try. Would you support the Ferengi the same way you support Thatcher?


Why does no-one in Trek make zines?

fireproof78

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Report this Apr. 12 2013, 9:55 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Apr. 11 2013, 10:51 pm

>

>If you disagree, fine, and let us discuss it, as has happened in several thread here. But, to immediately say "D@mn her!" is to not solidify any argument against her principles. It does disservice to the discussion.

T'Paul offered a pretty good argument which you and Bam both ignored:

She was a close supporter of the openly fascist dictator Auguste Pinochet who deposed an elected leader by force and then instituted an extermination program that assassinated thousands of people for their views, and she supported apartheid in South Africa even calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist. She was a war hawk and an imperialist. At home, under her leadership, for the first time anywhere in western world since the Depression, the poor got poorer. Unemployment skyrocketed as she gave handouts to the rich.

>


I did not ignore it, DT, I just noted that the reaction by Thatcher's opponents is to celebrate while if I, as a conservative, were to celebrate Obama's death in the same manner (high fives, parties, etc.) I would be called "hateful."


I am currently doing more research on Thatcher and her effects on Britain. I applaud her standing up, in most cases, for more conservative principles. I don't have to agree with everything she did, just like I don't agree with everything most politicians stand for or say. But, as one person said, "Beware of uncritical lovers and unloving critics."


The severely critical, to the point of macabre, tone of the anti-Thatcher proponents saddens me. Such vitriol does not make for good discussion.

darmokattanagra

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POSTS: 390

Report this Apr. 13 2013, 12:32 pm

The severely critical, to the point of macabre, tone of the anti-Thatcher proponents saddens me. Such vitriol does not make for good discussion.


What's there to discuss? The woman was a tyrannical dictator. Anyone who disagrees with that is a freedom-hating Nazi/Communist/ProRegressive!

fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this Apr. 13 2013, 8:26 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Apr. 13 2013, 12:32 pm

>

>The severely critical, to the point of macabre, tone of the anti-Thatcher proponents saddens me. Such vitriol does not make for good discussion.

>What's there to discuss? The woman was a tyrannical dictator. Anyone who disagrees with that is a freedom-hating Nazi/Communist/ProRegressive!

>


Apparently, nothing 


She did things, some good, some bad, and for that, she deserves eternal damnation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Yeah, I'm out

Low Key

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Report this Apr. 21 2013, 1:51 pm

'merry christmas, maggie thatcher' from billy elliot: the musical


 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeuLTEXazJs

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