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The Schizoid Man and Nemesis (spoilers)

Flanaess

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 24

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 4:57 pm

Dr. Ira Graves cheats death in The Schizoid Man. He transfers his mind into Data and takes over Data's body, Data's consciousness becomes completely repressed during this time.


I agree that it is morally wrong and Starfleet/Federation also strongly feel it's wrong.


Why then, in Nemesis, do they set Data up to cheat death by using B-4's mind and body, in the same fashion as Dr. Ira Graves  assaulted Data's body and abused his civil rights?


B-4 should be allowed to live, learn and grow in his own right. Become his own person.


The 2009 comic book let's Data take over B-4, thus having Data engage in a criminal act.


At a convention, Brent Spiner said basically that if there was a new TNG movie, Data would be brought back to life through B-4. Wrong is wrong, no matter the stardate.


 

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 04 2013, 1:02 am

No, I not agree; Data was trying only to be giving B4 chance to become more acualized, to allow him to become better, not to become repressed.


But if help think of this: every time someone transports, body completely dinsintigrated/atomized (and thus killed) and then reintigrated elsewhere; so if people have a sould and really a completely new body built from same molicules, what happen to soul, if beam as fast or faster than speed of light and they talking through beaming even when half molicules in one place and half in another and then a second latter the no stop and say good, my soul just reentered my body.

2takesfrakes

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 3683

Report this Apr. 04 2013, 3:57 pm

That's STAR TREK for you - Edith Keeler
wasn't allowed to avoid her known fate, yet ...
Gillian Taylor is allowed to avoid her unknown future,
by leaping into Kirk's arms in mid-transport.


And now, some 75 or 80 years later in TREK's
timeline, B4 is expendable like Edith Keeler.
Data, on the other hand, like Gilian Taylor ...
is NOT!!! That's just the way this show rolls!


Even STAR TREK's Prime Directive is not quite
immune! One planet gets the plug pulled on it,
and ENTERPRISE moves on, leaving those poor
natives to pick up the pieces. Other times,
it's rigidly adhered to ... but what can you do?


leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Apr. 06 2013, 3:54 pm

The glaring difference between these two scenarios is that Ira was trying to steal from/replace Data. When Data connected to B4 it was to provide B4 with additional experiences a nd information. If Data is considered to be "resurrected" through B4 it's not really him; it's B4 deciding to act like Data.


I Am Ultra Narcissus.

Ne vem

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 40

Report this Apr. 07 2013, 9:52 am

The easiest answer is: B4 was an idiot and no-one cared enough to defend his rights.


Actually, I can't remember Nemesis that well...but wasn't B4 defective in some way?


Why does no-one in Trek make zines?

leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Apr. 07 2013, 10:30 am

I've not been able to actually sit through this entire abomination so I don't have a complete picture but I did catch some of the stuff with B4. He seemed more underdeveloped. Data was just doing what parents and siblings do to their children and siblings in a much more time effective, android-compatible manner.

I Am Ultra Narcissus.

buchworm

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 503

Report this Jul. 28 2013, 1:25 pm

It was explained in the movie that B-4's brain was less developed than Data's.  Data transferred his experiences to B-4.  In a real life scenario, we could talk about the potential for B-4 becoming a Data clone.  However, in the parameters of the movie, that wasn't Data's intention.

rob39874

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 142

Report this Jul. 29 2013, 4:47 am

Data Transferred his knowledge to B4 pretty much like a teacher gives knowledge to her pupils. However being a android it will be more extensive memorys, experiences emotions all would have been transferred to B4. So it would be like a child idolising there parents and wanted to be just like Dad. Technically Data was like a father to B4 so since he has Datas knowledge memories and experiences he now classes himself as Data. Or Maybe B4 went Schizophrenic and Data is his alter ego

kevin.nelson.1291

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 26

Report this Jul. 29 2013, 8:47 am

Remember that Nemesis is just a rip off of Khan. When compared to Spock placing his soul in McCoy, a violation of B4's rights seems reasonable- at least that is an ethical question, and not a "where-the-heck-did-this-Vulcan-ability-come from?" question.

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