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Endgame....what really gets me...

christina.miracle

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POSTS: 18

Report this Mar. 23 2013, 6:03 pm

I have a love-hate relationship with this episode. I think the basic idea and execution of the finale was great and near perfect. I have two small issues with it though. One, I still feel a little cheated and sad to see the end of this wonderful series. I can imagine a lot of other Voyager fans feel the same way. Even though some critics dislike that Janeway took matters into her own hands and completely went against everything Starfleet stood for, I loved the ending. I mean to end the series with Voyager not making it back or making it back without its core crew would have left everyone feeling cheated.

The second issue I have is much shallower than the first. Chakotay and Seven...no way am I buying that. That relationship is the only thing that just doesn't fit. I am forever going to feel like that was just wrong. Janeway should have been with Chakotay! Heck I could have settle on Chakotay with anyone else or Janeway with some else or them never admitting their attraction...but not Chakotay and Seven!

I just watched "Resolutions" and it reminded me of how irritating the thought of Chakotay and Seven being together is.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

starkorn

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POSTS: 1239

Report this Mar. 23 2013, 10:26 pm

They should have Janeway with Chakotay, Makes more sense than 7 with him.


Also they reduce the Borg to little wimps, IMO.

Only a Sidekick

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POSTS: 15

Report this Mar. 24 2013, 11:16 am

Seven's "first love" should not have been her last (not counting that other Borg from Unimatrix Zero).  


 


Y'gotta learn to play!

christina.miracle

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POSTS: 18

Report this Mar. 24 2013, 4:17 pm

I agree. I have nothing against Seven and think her character was a great addition to the series.

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Apr. 05 2013, 6:35 pm

You're definitely not alone. C/7 has to be one of the most unpopular pairings in Trek history. Many people, including myself, hate it. Even after all these years it still bugs me. Janeway and Chakotay should have been together in the end (or at least there should have been a hint of that). I also don't think it's a shallow reason. Relationships are of great importance in a show, no matter what genre. It's the characters we ultimately come to care about, their hopes and their dreams, and we come to feel we know them. Who they love, or don't love, is a part of that. For me, Janeway and Chakotay loving each other, but being unable to be together, was a part of who they were. It's how their relationship was directed in the beginning, and how Mulgrew and Beltran played it (for the most part). In the end, that should have been honored. As it wasn't, and a completely new relationship was thrown in, I was left feeling like I didn't know the characters after all. Now I just feel like it was the writers who didn't know the characters. I love J/C and wish we'd had more episodes like Resolutions and Coda. The chemistry was awesome.

Sophie74656

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Report this Apr. 06 2013, 4:44 am

I think they had poor chemistry together. And it seemed like their relationship came out of nowhere

starfan97

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POSTS: 235

Report this Apr. 06 2013, 7:37 am

My beef with "Endgame" is that they never finished it. I mean, its a big fireball, they get home, Janeway says like three words to Admiral Paris, who by the way, never looked at his son, and that was the end. And whats with the whole Seven and Chakotay thing?? I mean, they were eventually going make seven go out with someone, but why Chakotay? The whole thing was just random, not at all like Tom and B'Elanna. I would never have guessed Chakotay. None of them really have a chemistry with her in my opinion. 


Tom also never got to see Miral. I think that definately should have been in there. They should have showed the welcome Home party when they all land on Earth. Tom never got to see his father(except on the viewscreen) neither did B'Elanna. And what about Janeway and Mark? i know he got married, but i still think it would be interesting to see him there. 


"Endgame" was a good ending, but they just didnt finish it. They could have easily made it a three parter instead of only two. 

Sehlat123

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POSTS: 496

Report this Apr. 06 2013, 9:49 pm

Starfan97, that's how I feel about it too. DS9 had what, a 10-part ending? Endgame seemed too sudden. They could have made a lot more leading up to it. One day, it was just another boring day, and suddenly, they were home. No build up, just home. I agree they should have shown more that just arriving, too. I liked the episode, but it didn't come close to DS9's epic conclusion. Bottom line? It could have been a LOT better.

Ne vem

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POSTS: 40

Report this Apr. 07 2013, 10:08 am

Sehlat123 - I think DS9 could get away with its more drawn out ending as it was more about the characters [who were way more interesting than Chakotay/Tom Paris etc]. We wanted to see what happened to everyone, whereas Voyager was more about the 'can they get home?' plot concept.


Endgame felt like a cheat, yeah, but then i thought, what else do I really want to see? Janeway meeting her ex-husband? Harry Kim meeting...whoever wanted to meet him? Maybe Tom seeing his Dad or the doctor seeing Earth for the first time...but apart from that, I didn't really care.


I suppose this is because the home of the series was the Delta Quadrant, and the Alpha Quadrant that the Voyager characters knew wasn't really well known to us.


Why does no-one in Trek make zines?

2takesfrakes

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POSTS: 3683

Report this Apr. 07 2013, 4:43 pm

What really gets ME is that the ship
was never allowed to look like it had
taken all the beatings it got, despite
there being no Dry Dock, or whatever ...


that didn't seem to make alot of sense.


CountJohn

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POSTS: 177

Report this Apr. 07 2013, 7:22 pm

Totally agree on C/7. It was so completely forced. I was never a particular fan of Janeway and him either, but at least that had some level of build up and some people who wanted it to happen. I would've preffered Seven and the Doctor to that, if only because it would've been so weird and they did have some actual chemistry.


I'm not really a fan of the episode either. They owed people who'd been big fans of the show some kind of payoff. They should've at least had a few scenes at the end of the crew meeting family exc.. I wasn't a big fan of the show, but if I had been I'd of definitely wanted that.


I also didn't like how they dealt with the Borg. Future technology or no, them blowing through two Borg cubes when single Borg cubes had brought the whole fleet to its knees in TNG kind of kills the Borg mystique.  I honestly think it might've been better and more surprising if they'd of had them find a secret Romulan or Dominion base that had some kind of portal to the other end of the galaxy and then have to fight to get access to it.

Holo

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POSTS: 253

Report this Apr. 08 2013, 10:08 am

The whole premise of the episode left a bad taste in my mouth. The one thing I can't forgive is Future Janeway's unconscionable decision to change 26 years of history just to get her ship home faster and save Seven. I don't know if she ever shed a tear for Hogan, Ballard, Jetal, Carey or anyone else who didn't make it through the long voyage, but someone in her inner circle dies and she changes the course of time itself.


Had the future shown at the beginning of the episode been much more grim, maybe the Federation under heavy Borg attack and losing planets, I think I could have understood her actions better. But as the episode is, she seems to be risking a fairly happy 25th century just to take a shortcut.


 

starlisa

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POSTS: 163

Report this Apr. 08 2013, 12:43 pm

I didn't like how prominent Seven was in the finale either. I don't think Janeway changed history just for her, or at least it wasn't meant to come across that way, but it certainly seemed like Seven had become the most important person to both her and Chakotay. It was unbelievable to me. The Janeway/Chakotay relationship deserved more in the finale than a turned down lunch invite.They had been on a profound journey together, changing from enemies to comrades to almost lovers, and yet this is the last scene we get of them together (to the best of my recollection). There should have been some moment of reflection between the two, and Chakotay's words to Seven about being in transporter range of her, should have been said to Janeway. A J/C scene of this kind could have been one of the most moving of the series. Such a wasted opportunity.


I don't think much, if anything, was said about the Maquis, either, whether they would be forgiven for their past activities. There would have been some uncertainly about that, I think, whether it would have been just the original Starfleet crew that were welcomed as heroes. Certainly Chakotay would have been concerned about that. 


I too would have liked to see the crew welcomed by their loved ones. That's why they were getting home, for the people there, not just a planet. Chakotay and Seven didn't need to be together to fit in on Earth. Chakotay would have had Janeway, B'Elanna, his sister and cousin. Seven would have had her aunt, the friends she'd made on Voyager, and The Doctor. Earth would have been as new to him as it was to her, so in that way she had more in common with him.


It was a disappointing ending to a fantastic series. I still love Voyager, though, and am grateful for all the fanfics that have followed it

Mugatu_for_Two

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POSTS: 129

Report this Apr. 09 2013, 9:47 am

Quote: starlisa @ Apr. 08 2013, 12:43 pm

>

>I don't think much, if anything, was said about the Maquis, either, whether they would be forgiven for their past activities. There would have been some uncertainly about that, I think, whether it would have been just the original Starfleet crew that were welcomed as heroes. Certainly Chakotay would have been concerned about that. 

>


 


The Maquis were wiped out during The Dominion War and thus no longer a threat. And since Cardassia allied itself with the Founders before that, the Maquis and the Federation were essentially fighting on the same side. Plus, the Voyager Maquis had served in Star Fleet faithfully for 7 years. All past sins would have been forgiven.


Jesus owes me gas money.

christina.miracle

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POSTS: 18

Report this Apr. 13 2013, 5:31 pm

I feel like she changed history for more than just Seven. What about Tuvok? Had he gotten home sooner he could be cured of the degenerative neurological disorder he had. Tuvok was very dear to her. Chakotay also dies shortly after returning because of being hurt over losing Seven. I don't like the C/7 thing but I think Chakotay is very important to her as well. There was so many things that happened that would explain her changing history. I believe they lost more crew as well before arriving home. Besides that they poked at Janeway a few times about messing with time travel. Remember the temporal agents warned her about staying off their radar...haha. 


I like the other aspect of the episode but do feel it was rushed and too short. Seven should have been with The Doctor not Chakotay though.

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