ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Rick Berman Appreciation thread

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Feb. 22 2013, 11:19 pm

I surely hope I'm not the only one out there who loves Berman's work on Trek. I often see many fans who don't like the Berman series.


 


I would enjoy hearing some thoughts from some fans who do enjoy Berman style Trek. I think it's perfection. I don't get the hate on Insurrection and Nemesis, nor on Voyager and Enterprise. I am a hardcore fan, and find something enjoyable that I love in every episode, and every film.


I can understand why certain series or films may not necessarily be someone's favorite, but sometimes fans are very harsh and think it's complete trash, and I completely disagree. Trek is golden, I really want to hear more positive things about Trek. Berman was in charge for the vast majority of Trek, you would think he'd get a little more gratitude.


I just saw a recent post of someone accusing him and purposely writing bad scripts for Voyager and Enterprise just to try and make Gene Roddenberry's genre of Trek look bad, and frankly that is just completely retarded. First off, Rick Berman was working on Trek as early as Season 1 of TNG, and he was Roddenberry's hand picked successor, and while Gene didn't pass away until Season 5 of TNG, Berman had already pretty much taken over by Season 3.


So give the guy some credit, most fans say TNG sucks until season 3, which is when Roddenberry had very little involvement. Nothing against Roddenberry either, I'm just making a point, and venting a little that fans get mad at stupid stuff and look for someone to blame, and Berman has pretty much become the George Bush of Star Trek. He gets blamed for every last thing anybody can come up with.


It was always very important to Berman to respect and keep Roddenberry's version of the future while also trying to move foreword within reason. Go watch all the special features for all the dvds, you'll see, this guy cared about his work and cared about making this stuff great, and he succeeded completely, and we the fans consistantly spit in his face for it.


He was actually pretty against quite a few things done in DS9 because he felt it was breaking Gene's vision. The Dominion war and other darker plots were being pushed by Ira Stephen Behr and Ron D. Moore. Berman eventually caved and let them have at it but after they all made some compromises.


I know Brannon Braga also pushed for alot of things that were done in Voyager and Enterprise. Berman tried to give them what they wanted while keeping it all Star Trek.


I was just shocked that someone actually said Berman tried to make Voyager suck on purpose. I find that completely stupid and honestly a bit offensive. There are quite alot of Voyager fans out there, I count myself among them. Voyager is my 2nd favorite of the Trek's, and if someone got on here saying the same type of crap about Roddenberry or TOS, people would be screaming bloody murder.


I'm not saying you have to love everything Berman ever touched, but seriously, be a little more respectful that there are some of us who like what you might not like.


Infinite Diversity, remember?

leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Feb. 23 2013, 9:34 am

I think it would be just a little looney to say that he tried to make things bad. Like most people he did some very good and some kind of bad things. I think that he did his best whether we like all of it or not.

I still strongly dislike most of Voyager and feel that Nemesis was an Abomination.

I Am Ultra Narcissus.

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Feb. 23 2013, 9:43 am

Quote: leroybrock @ Feb. 23 2013, 9:34 am

>I think it would be just a little looney to say that he tried to make things bad. Like most people he did some very good and some kind of bad things. I think that he did his best whether we like all of it or not. I still strongly dislike most of Voyager and feel that Nemesis was an Abomination.


 


Fair enough.


I love Voyager, and I really like Nemesis personally. But I do understand why people don't like Nemesis. Part of why I think I like Nemesis, is because Nemesis was the first Trek film to come out after I had become a fan and I was 12 years old and it was my first time to see a Trek movie in the theater, and TNG was my first series, and so I think seeing it from that stand point and from the eyes of a child, I have a slightly different view of the film than most people do. If I saw the film for the first time as an adult, I might feel the same way as everyone else does.


But yes in regards to Rick Berman, I think he wanted to make this as good as it can possibly be, and I feel that for the most part he did.


Live Long and Prosper

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Feb. 23 2013, 11:36 am

Rick was faithful to Star Trek and Roddenberrys vision, he made Star Trek an empire in the 1990's, now JJ Abrams will dstroy it. 

leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Feb. 23 2013, 12:24 pm

Hey Troll. Just for reference which of the other recently created Troll accounts are also you?

I Am Ultra Narcissus.

Keldor

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1

Report this Feb. 23 2013, 4:23 pm

Rick Berman was the cancer of Star Trek, he was the lung cancer of Trek, and when he and Braga were ousted from Enterprise, it was a new lease of life for Trek.


 


But then him and his parasite buddy BGraga had to ruin season four with that garbage they dared call a "Valentine to the fans" and killed Trek.


 


We were given hope when the new movie was announced, but Jar Jar Abrams just to drag the name of Star Trek through his own fecal matter.

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Feb. 23 2013, 9:05 pm

Whoa everybody let's cool down.


This isn't a Rick Berman verses JJ Abrams. I personally like Berman better, but Abrams Trek is good too.


I really don't think Berman or Braga killed Trek.


There was just so much Trek all at one time, and I think people got overwhelmed and quit for awhile. That makes sense as Voyager and Enterprise are liked way more today than they were when they were first airing.

Hegemony.Cricket

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 26

Report this Feb. 25 2013, 3:17 am

Sora raises a good point about Berman's run on TNG. Basically, the moment Berman took control of the series was the moment TNG became a watchable show.


Where Roddenberry took on a fatherly role with the cast, Berman was more of a straight-up boss. Wil Wheaton blames him for quite a few instances where he has denied opportunities, and there's that fan rumour that Ensign Ro vanished from TNG as "punishment" for Michelle Forbes turning down DS9. While we don't have the same "warm and fuzzy" feeling about Berman, the fact is he put on 15 plus years of great television, and doesn't deserve the hate he gets. 

Lone Palm

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 207

Report this Feb. 25 2013, 10:23 am

Rick Berman did a great job during his time on Star Trek. In a recent interview, Brannon Braga briefly discussed how he and Rick Berman wanted to give Star Trek a rest after Voyager. Paramount, however, pushed for Enterprise (which was a great series) and told Berman that if he didn't produce another show then he would be replaced with someone who would. Also, Berman and Braga wanted the first season of ENT set on earth whereby the First Contact with the Klingons would've pushed the humans to complete their first deep space ship at the year's end. But Paramount's execs rejected the idea in favor of the conventional format. 


UPN was an additional problem. The channel sucked. Paramount should've taken NBC's offer to carry ENT.

Sehlat123

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 496

Report this Feb. 25 2013, 11:25 am

Quote: Sora @ Feb. 23 2013, 9:05 pm

>

>Whoa everybody let's cool down.

>This isn't a Rick Berman verses JJ Abrams. I personally like Berman better, but Abrams Trek is good too.

>I really don't think Berman or Braga killed Trek.

>There was just so much Trek all at one time, and I think people got overwhelmed and quit for awhile. That makes sense as Voyager and Enterprise are liked way more today than they were when they were first airing.

>


I agree with that. I really like his work with star trek. He stuck with Roddenberry's idea of an enlightened future. How do people say that he killed Star Trek? He did a lot of great things with it, but it wore out after a while. I personally believe that he didn't kill it, the fans did.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Feb. 25 2013, 12:08 pm

If we get a new TV series someday is there any talk of who would be in charge of it?

I Am Ultra Narcissus.

HaventGotALife

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 760

Report this Feb. 25 2013, 12:23 pm

Berman was good and bad for Trek, as most people who oversee 4 television shows will probably attest to. There were mistakes and there were bad ideas. Some of them came from the studio, whereas he might have done well to flex his muscle and not do what they wanted. I think we're too hard on him in some instances, and very easy in others. The dialogue in the series, past TNG, was something that needed work. Too much of the show relied upon endless exposition to get to the meat of the problem. 


Take, for instance, The Way of the Warrior in Deep Space Nine. There's very little action in it and the characters are not the focal point. We never see any of the action. It's simply the characters talking about the problem. You can communicate with an audience beyond what is said. Seeing scenes from Cardassia's civilian uprising, Gowron's response to the Federation, Dukat's struggle to get to the rendevous point--all of this would've made for a more interesting episode. I love DS9, but there is a reason why Star Trek never gets recognized in exceptional writing or acting. He made the choices of the actors as well. This is his baby. 


Too often, sex was used to sell the show. Too often, it relied upon older characters that were bankable, without giving them any added layers. And maybe that is the fault of the fans of not wanting anything new, or accepting anything new. But it led to a stale product. They needed to open this up a little bit, get some fresh blood with new ideas. That wasn't Star Trek, especially after DS9 went off the air. Very traditional character arcs. Very traditional acting choices. 


There's a lot of Trek out there and I enjoy the Berman television shows. But most of it doesn't work on more than one level. And that is holding back Trek more than it being Pulp Fiction. That is just an excuse, especially now. It needed to be cutting edge, not just in terms of graphics, but in terms of storytelling. The Dark Knight moments for Trek became fewer and fewer under Berman. 


So thank you for keeping Star Trek alive and for when it was good. But also remember, it wasn't perfect. Should he be hated for that? No. He should be appreciated for what he did and known for where it could be better. 


Its stories are about the depth and complexity of human interaction and relationships. It studies us and asks us to look within ourselves, to relate, to ask how would we respond to all that is in their world?

mark.todd.1042

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1

Report this Feb. 25 2013, 3:04 pm

you are right:i do not understand how someone could be a fan and then say they hate this or that. being a fan means exactly that--no judgement.

trekfacts

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2

Report this Jun. 25 2013, 2:57 pm

Berman was not Roddenberry's "hand-picked successor."  As a Production Executive working at Paramount, Berman was assigned by the studio to work on STNG.  He represented Paramount's  interests on the series.  He himself states this as fact, in interviews which can be found on the web.  Roddenberry never referred to Berman as his "hand-picked successor."  The phrase came about after Roddenberry's death, because Paramount wanted to imply a continuation of lineage, for its own financial interests.  DS9, for example, had absolutely nothing to do with Roddenberry, but they used his name.  Other instances abound.

heronymous

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 156

Report this Jun. 25 2013, 4:29 pm

Actually , Rick Berman was Gene's handpicked Successor ( along with his Wife).. those discussions are on record !  


I would like to know the reasons why Leroy Brock and Keldor despise Rick Berman and Braga's work ? What is the criteria ? Are they filmmakers themselves ? I certainly know they're critics ? But I also know what Hollywood's and Paramounts criteria are - there's a bad guy (Kang , Khan , Soren , Shinzon , Nero , Harrison) and the good guy (Kirk , Picard) has to stop them ! Oh , and there is lots of fighting and action !


I like all the Series and thought Nemesis was quite good ! I think Berman and Braga did a good job of fleshing out Star Trek ! But I would like to know what opposing fans think is missing ?!


All Trekkers Welcome !

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum