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Just finished watching Voyager

Susan Shalabi Molano

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 41

Report this Jan. 31 2013, 9:55 am

Just finished watching "Voyager" (for the 1st time). I was dissappointed...Very dissappointed; I did not feel it was 'Trek" at all.


The theme I _and many others_ hated in DS9 of introducing a virus that can eliminate an entire species, which I thought VOY would avoid was employed pointlessly and provocatively in the finale of Voyager. I thought the Star Trek writers would've been wiser, but they weren't.


Captain Janeway, whom I came to respect and like  in many episodes throughout the series behaved in what does not befit a starship captain. Changing a timeline that envolves entire worlds for the sake of two persons is an outrage. It throws the Prime Directive (temporal directive included) into the trash...! (And they say Kirk was the roughest Captain in this department!)


The other thing about Janeway is: Why the hell is she so obsessed with asserting herself as the one in command? We all got the hint over 7 seasons! she doesn't have to do-and over do it- even to her future self to convince us


This last-minute-romance between Chakotay and 7 felt as a cheap tool intended to get the plot to work. It would've been stronger and more convincing had they introduced it earlier and built upon it. Instead, they gave us a fantacy involving Chakotay and 7 that was left unexplored until someone said : Hey, let's use it as a reason to get Janeway back in time to change history in favor of this "historia de un amor" (pun intended). 


Chakotay played comparss in many episodes throughout the series, but this episode was one of the worst. We all know he could've done better. For once, I liked him as a Maquis.


B'ellana and Paris were just a pain in the a*s, but that's another story that will also lead me to Tuvok and his annoying tendency to state the obvious and from there to the unconvincing Kim which would take a journal-length-essay...


I'm still under the ill feeling the finale gave me, so I may not be thinking straight. The only memorable performance i can think of is the doctor's. If anything, he was the best Voyager Character. Seven would have been too if they hadn't given her that silly finale plot. Neelix was a well portrayed character in many episodes too


Voyager had the potential of being a science fiction odyssey with a lady Odysseus at the helm... Odysseus who lost a great deal in family and friends, and made it back home at a great expense that gave  his story its tragic allure... But _Alas!_with Janeway and Voyager, the legend-that-coul-have-been never lived up to expectations; The finale made me feel even stronger that they never really wanted to go home... 



 


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UninvitedGuest

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 180

Report this Feb. 02 2013, 4:22 am

Quote: Susan Shalabi Molano @ Jan. 31 2013, 9:55 am

>

>Just finished watching "Voyager" (for the 1st time). I was dissappointed...Very dissappointed; I did not feel it was 'Trek" at all.

>


Voyager is very similar to TNG and DS9 in a lot of ways since it's a spinoff of those two shows, and also it takes place at about the same time. But it's not as good as TNG/DS9 in my opinion.


The 2009 Star Trek movie is the main thing I've seen that has a "non-trek" feel to it. But at least Leonard Nimoy was in it. lol


 


 

Susan Shalabi Molano

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 41

Report this Feb. 02 2013, 8:04 am

Quote: UninvitedGuest @ Feb. 02 2013, 4:22 am

Quote: Susan Shalabi Molano @ Jan. 31 2013, 9:55 am

>

>

>Just finished watching "Voyager" (for the 1st time). I was dissappointed...Very dissappointed; I did not feel it was 'Trek" at all.

>

Voyager is very similar to TNG and DS9 in a lot of ways since it's a spinoff of those two shows, and also it takes place at about the same time. But it's not as good as TNG/DS9 in my opinion.

The 2009 Star Trek movie is the main thing I've seen that has a "non-trek" feel to it. But at least Leonard Nimoy was in it. lol

 

 


I agree with you completely. Things started to decline after DS9


 


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james.escoffery

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POSTS: 2

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 3:00 am

I am of the opposite opinion. I found Voyager to generally be a more interesting show than TNG or DS9. 

I found about 85-90% of the episodes in Voyager interesting, probably about 70-75% of TNG episodes interesting, but only about 15-20% of DS9.


If any of the Star Treks were most unlike Star Trek, it was DS9 if only because they don't actually do a great amount of exploration. DS9 is much more akin to Babylon 5, they just replaced it with Star Trek races, although compared to B5, DS9 is watered down and with lots of filler.

Susan Shalabi Molano

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 41

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 3:29 am

Quote: james.escoffery @ Feb. 04 2013, 3:00 am

>

>I am of the opposite opinion. I found Voyager to generally be a more interesting show than TNG or DS9. 

I found about 85-90% of the episodes in Voyager interesting, probably about 70-75% of TNG episodes interesting, but only about 15-20% of DS9.

>If any of the Star Treks were most unlike Star Trek, it was DS9 if only because they don't actually do a great amount of exploration. DS9 is much more akin to Babylon 5, they just replaced it with Star Trek races, although compared to B5, DS9 is watered down and with lots of filler.

>


Well, lots of people say that DS9 wasn't Trek at all because of its dark themes. The dominion war, section 31 and all that darkness made it closer to Star Wars than Star Trek, but that was exactly what made me watch it. For the times we live in, and those in which the show was made (the massacres in the balkans, the gulf wars, the rise of religious fundamentalism and the occupation of Palestine...etc) In this contemporary age the optimistic altruistic federation doesn't seem real. I thought that DS9 wes a brave attempt to reflect this..It gave depth to Star Trek in the sense that it simply points out how difficult and costly it has been for humanity to move beyond that and that the challenge is still there to protect that altruistic vision; that "paradise".


One other thing I liked was that it gave klingons something to do. .they were becoming boring withouit a heroic war to fight  


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Susan Shalabi Molano

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POSTS: 41

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 3:35 am

For all its worth, Voyager had many interesting episodes and many intelligent, thought-provoking themes. In that respect, I agree with james.escoffery. But that does not make me like the finale. The only finale of a star trek series that was worse was that of "Enterprise".

Khaaan!!!!

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 72

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 9:13 am

I really like voyager, but to me its problems were in the creative side of the show. 


What most bothered me about voyager was I think it started out as a great idea, but somewhere during its development paramount started hedging their bets. I mean, It feels too much like a show that started out creatively unique that was hammered into a tng clone. It started out with this great idea of a ship alone far from federation space, forced to work with a crew of outlaws in order to survive and one day get home. I remember loving the idea and how great it would be to see a star trek series get back out to space, but to me it was basically a slightly mixed up version of TNG (especcially in the beginning) . Here are a few reasons why I think this:


1. the setting is the ship not the quadrant. 


Technically, voyager is supposed to be on the other side of the galaxy, which would make for some great storytelling but most of the time everything is pretty much ok. I mean, the ship usually works. everyone has enough food and stuff, the alien races always lose at the end. and these two crews who are supposed to be sooo different pretty much get along all the time, except when a line of dialogue is thrown in to remind the audience that they are not all starfleet. its not like the enterprise was always going to a starbase or tag teaming with other ships. if you hit the mute button and watched the series side by side I think you would conclude the setting of the series are the same. Thats because they are, the setting was the ship, not space.


2. the two crews on voyager are not different enough


Ok, sure there are a few epidodes devoted to B'lanna not being able to fit in, but really, from the very beginning these hardly seem like insurmountable problems. everybody puts on the uniform and pretty much do their jobs. once in awhile a line of dialogue reminds the audience that these crews are different but they are never "shown" how they are different. do the tng mute side by side test again. pretty much the same. I think they passed on a whole lot of great storytelling opportunities by not having the crews clash in the first few seasons. It could have been a great power struggle or at the least provide some real conflict between the characters. This to me is the most baffling aspect of the execution of the show. for all that they capitalized on the difference between the crews, why did they even bother to not just make the crew all starfleet?


3. aliens were all the same.


I give the writers credit to some degree in that they tried to establish the kazon, but it just didnt work. they were simply uninteresting. I hoped for some grand balance of power like existed in the alpha quadrant between the romulans, klingons and federation because it would have given the delta quadrant a feeling of complexity. instead we got tng "aliens of the week" most of the time. . I would argue that in just a few seasons, DS9 established the dominion (founders, vorta, Jem Hadar) much more fully than voyager did with any of its races in 7 years. 


4. finally, the writing


The writing just was too often bad(got better as it went though). it was too often just a shoot em up. it rarely introduced new sci fi concepts and overrelied on technobabble to get the characters out of tough jams. When I think of TNGs heyday, episodes like Measure of a Man, who watches the watchers, yesterdays enterprise, etc., the  deficit in the writers rooms seems clear.


but the tng analogy ends with seven of nine


I would argue that when they retooled the show, getting rid of kes and sidelining some cast members and bringing on seven of nine it became a unique show. In some ways, i liked it. sevens journey is much  more personal than any of the other characters because her problems are internal. it truly gave her character an arc as she became more human. same thing with the doctor and I think that is why fans responded to those characters so well.


but it did have some negatives as well. They destroyed star treks best villian(the borg) with overexposure. one could argue seven was a desperate capitalization of one of  tngs most popular aspects to boost ratings. also, seven ushered in the sexy era at the cost of crediblility. to the shows credit they handled this better than they did in enterprise where actors would have to get basically nude every episode and rub each other down with oil. I dont really have a problem with sexuality in star trek, my problem is using sexuality to make up for uninteresting writing. The worst thing was the degree by which they went to sideline cast members. I think Chakotay was criminally underwritten for a show that lasted seven seasons. Jar Jar, I mean Neelix was reduced down as well but it may have not been a bad thing (although, they really improved upon that character over the years. He became less annoying)


I have said before the thing with star trek is this. all the series have their flaws, and voyager was no different. Once I accepted the flaws of the show I truly enjoyed it. I think what sucks about voyager is its concept is A+ gold with so much potential. result B- or C star trek that rarely dissapointed but rarely gave a feeling of "WOW that was an awesome episode. 


just my thoughts. 


 


"Ten thousand dollars for me by myself. For that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing."

Lannister

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 20

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 4:20 pm

Khaaan!!!!, I agree with everything you said. Your opinion reflects my own. Seven was indeed the most interesting along with The Doctor for the reasons you stated. Seven to me was developed in the manner that DS9 developed Odo. One of the biggest problems with Voyager was that I think Berman stuck to much with the no conflict theme that Roddenberry wanted. He pretty much stated this in multiple intervies. This was a detrement to the show, though not enough to call it a bad show. A bad show would have never lasted 7 seasons. This was the main reason behind the no conflict stuff. They should have done more arcs in Voyager as well. They wouldn't have needed to do series lasting arcs like DS9, but seasonal type arcs. This would have worked well for them as they transitioned to different parts of the Delta quadrant.


Comments like yours make me very weary about Enterprise. Perhaps I should put my netflix account to good use before taking a plunge to buy Enterprise.

woodystorey

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POSTS: 8

Report this Feb. 04 2013, 5:48 pm

Someone that dosn't like "Voyager" has got to be a total dork, Janeway and crew put the hurt on the Borg like no one else did, certainly not like TNG....psshhh....hit the road.......thats me laughing at you...

UninvitedGuest

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POSTS: 180

Report this Feb. 05 2013, 11:12 am

Star Trek:Voyager is a very good show, but it probably has the largest number of annoying characters for a trek show too.(Neelix, Tom Paris, Torres, Ensign Kim, Janeway, etc)


B'Elanna Torres is annoying how she constantly pretends to "play the victim".


 

Susan Shalabi Molano

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 41

Report this Feb. 05 2013, 10:18 pm

Quote: Khaaan!!!! @ Feb. 04 2013, 9:13 am

>I agree with these points:

>

>1. the setting is the ship not the quadrant. 

>Technically, voyager is supposed to be on the other side of the galaxy, which would make for some great storytelling but most of the time everything is pretty much ok. I mean, the ship usually works. everyone has enough food and stuff, the alien races always lose at the end. and these two crews who are supposed to be sooo different pretty much get along all the time, except when a line of dialogue is thrown in to remind the audience that they are not all starfleet.

>2. the two crews on voyager are not different enough

> It could have been a great power struggle or at the least provide some real conflict between the characters. This to me is the most baffling aspect of the execution of the show. for all that they capitalized on the difference between the crews, why did they even bother to not just make the crew all starfleet?

>3. aliens were all the same.

> I think what sucks about voyager is its concept is A+ gold with so much potential. result B- or C star trek that rarely dissapointed but rarely gave a feeling of "WOW that was an awesome episode. 

>


The aliens in Voyager annoyed me a lot, they kept doing more and more horrid looking faces behind which lie shallow characters, whose homeworlds are so backward (despite the warp drive capabilities) that you can easily get the impression  the Delta quadrant is still in it's early steps of evolution


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jeanluckirk737

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POSTS: 56

Report this Feb. 09 2013, 11:16 am

What did you think of the epsidoe THRESHOLD?


Susan Shalabi Molano

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POSTS: 41

Report this Feb. 10 2013, 11:51 am

Quote: jeanluckirk737 @ Feb. 09 2013, 11:16 am

>

>What did you think of the epsidoe THRESHOLD?

>

>


"Threshhold wasn't one of Branon Braga's good episodes. The idea was great: that in the quest for technological advancement, and the obsession with progress and evolution, humans have actually de-evolved. I have always been intrigued by this controversy ever since I read Bernard Shaw, but the episode didn't quite catch the notion; instead we got some overdone makeup feats and ended up with the two silly Paris and Janeway lizards


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