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Can't believe how bad DS9 was...

sinfultictac

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POSTS: 8

Report this Jul. 11 2013, 9:11 am

And voyger had some same people playing cardboard cutouts the entire 7 year run. 


I like Sisko, He had a range of anger "Playing with my baseball angry" to "This smile is only here because we are in a professional setting angry" 


The Camera angles in the main room were hard and jaring, I spespect its why much of meetings either took place inside sikso office or board room after like season 3. 


 


I like it, it was drama, and had a dark leaning, yes every this hunky dory on earth but whats happening out in the Black? Thats what DS9 is about its about how do everyday starfleet officers deal with the everday of being basically an Occupying power protecting civilization getting back on its feet. Not every life in federation is action,adventure much of it is boring routine everyday things. To make that life seem much more better you must hype the drama. 

Stickist5334

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POSTS: 29

Report this Aug. 13 2013, 3:16 pm

Sweet Zombie Jeebus™, where we watching the same show???? Really? Really? You are comparing Avery Brook's performence of Ben Sisko to a Gummi Bear? Wow! Looks like Mark isn't of Bajore! Don't sweat it man, this show isn't for everybody, thankfully there's the Reboot movies,  they might be more your speed their guy!


Temba, His arms wide!

queenuhura

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POSTS: 114

Report this Aug. 13 2013, 6:41 pm

Quote: murnogladst @ Jan. 27 2013, 8:40 am

>

>I was a huge TNG fan, and can still actually recite the script along with many of the later episodes. I remember not really liking the first episode of DS9 when I was in high school, but I also remember feeling that the show got better in time (some time around when they shaved Avery Brooks' head).
However, I've recently been trying to find a good episode for my wife and I to watch, and it seems like EVERY SINGLE episode I can remember liking is actually terrible, from the standpoint of intelligent TREK-world fiction.We've tried the first, fourth and fifth seasons, and it's like watching a car crash that doesn't skid to a halt but rather goes on for seven years.

>The characters seem designed for a seven-year old's level of maturity, and the acting is terrible! Being a director I can understand why, in part, when you look at the blocking - DS9 characters are often forced to stand in front of one another to try and emphasise the whole cardassian-triangle asthetic (and probably just to be different from TNG). However, doing this isolates your actors and destroys sight lines, leaving everyone guessing as to where the action is, and the actors looking uneasy about timing and reactions and emotional believability - this is perhaps more painful in DS9 than in ANY OTHER TV SHOW I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFETIME! You can 'see the wheels turning' in every actor's face as they so obviously go about 'just doing their job'; the audience has a clearer understanding of what these actors want to be doing after the shoot than they do about their characters' intentions!

Avery Brooks should have gotten into the swimming pool installation business instead of acting. Holy $#!+, it's like watching a drop-out student in their first acting class. He's totally disconnected from the scene when he delivers the single-sentence lines he's entrusted with - and he can't even deliver these without moving his head around like a bobble-head puppet. His voice has only one note, and we can tell he's angry when he flashes his teeth... thank god, I wasn't sure if he was constipated or about to laugh or what... I think he thinks it's "acting" when you move around like a gummy-bear with a mild form of Parkinsons. I mean, they went from Patrick Stewart to THIS GUY?! They can't even trust him with monologues, which essentially trashes the entire TREK story-telling format. Instead they give him one-liners, the sure-fire sign that the production was regretting hiring him, and he can't even deliver these without his eyes saying "I'm mad" while his mouth says "I'm happy". I bet the cast and crew and even he knows it too... they'll take it to the grave that he was the weakest link, bringing the whole cast and production down to amateur level. Thanks Avery.

>However, no-one seems to talk about this and I can't understand why. Did every other TNG fan just give up when DS9 came out, and now every TREK fan is from a totally different breeding pool than I? If someone had told me that DS9 was good when I was 7, I might have had a very different life. Luckily I was reared on TNG and TOS, so by the age of 13 I could tell that DS9 was junk, and perhaps for this reason I have a grasp on what good dramatic television is. This DS9 junk should have had a math lesson at the end that kids could work out with their parents, like on sesame street.

Honestly I'm shocked so many people like this show. The only remaining episodes that I remember being any good which we still haven't tried watching are the first six episodes of season six. Gonna try these tonight and I'll re-post here if my feelings change any. Honestly I will, cause I would like to have this very anti-TREK view of mine deposed. However, between Avery Brooks, Nana Vistor and Ira Stephn Behr, I think I might have a rough ride ahead.

>I of course loathed Voyager as well, but most people feel the same way about that one, in my experience. The anomaly is DS9, and I feel like I'm out in the Gamma Quadrant, looking in.

>Mark DeSilva



I see that this OP is several months old but since it has been resurrected I feel I have to comment because I, like most of the other posters, am in shock from the original statement.
 
Avery Brooks, amateur? No. He is a classically trained thespian(actor) with a masters degree in fine arts who has many theater credits both off and on Broadway to his credit. You may not like his style of acting but he can obviously act. I absolutely love Avery Brooks, but I must admit that even I found some of his monologues a bit tedious. Shakespeare and opera are not for everybody but thats not saying those people cant act or sing, its just not your thing.
 
They say 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. As a director, one may have the tendency to view a program from a technical perspective and maybe not be able to see it for its entertainment value.
 
And to answer the question: Did every other TNG fan just give up when DS9 came out, and now every TREK fan is from a totally different breeding pool than I?
No. And hopefully. I am a fan of ALL FIVE series, have seen every single episode of all 28 yrs of original airings multiple times, and I did not give up when DS9 came out.
 
It appears that the OP only posted this one comment, and probably wont even see these responses, but I still couldnt let this one go.

*Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations* *Live Long and Prosper*

Del_Duio

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POSTS: 28

Report this Aug. 14 2013, 9:01 am

"Did every other TNG fan just give up when DS9 came out, and now every TREK fan is from a totally different breeding pool than I?"


I didn't, I watched both series to the end and both were excellent*. I also enjoyed both reboot movies.


 


*Aside from "Let he Who is Without Sin", BLAAAH for such a good show I don't know what went wrong here haha.


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Del_Duio

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POSTS: 28

Report this Aug. 14 2013, 9:04 am

Quote: sinfultictac @ Jul. 11 2013, 9:11 am

>And voyger had some same people playing cardboard cutouts the entire 7 year run. 


Hahaha, touche'.


I could never really get into Voyager, but I gave it a real chance for a long time. Aside from The Doctor and Seven, and maybe Paris, nobody was all that good. It was a far cry from a crew like Picard / Riker / Data / Worf / Everybody on the Ent-D more or less.


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DS9SUCKS

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POSTS: 2

Report this Oct. 29 2013, 3:07 pm

wow. i finally finished the final episode. this show was terrible. i can't believe i watched all 176 episodes. i am seriously so disappointed. so much overacting and stupid things people would do. really?

Anime Odo

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POSTS: 209

Report this Oct. 30 2013, 10:10 pm

I got to say even though my favorit officer is on DS9 i still love voy more


"I don't believe in luck, but I appreciate the sentiment." - Odo

EmpokNorStationManager

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POSTS: 2034

Report this Oct. 31 2013, 6:31 am

Quote: DS9SUCKS @ Oct. 29 2013, 3:07 pm

>

>wow. i finally finished the final episode. this show was terrible. i can't believe i watched all 176 episodes. i am seriously so disappointed. so much overacting and stupid things people would do. really?

>


If you hated it that much, why bother watching all 176 episodes?  You should've quit early and saved yourself the time....


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

EmpokNorStationManager

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POSTS: 2034

Report this Oct. 31 2013, 6:36 am

Quote: DS9SUCKS @ Oct. 29 2013, 3:07 pm

>

>...so much overacting and stupid things people would do. really?

>


Really.  I think OtakuJo summed it up pretty darn well a few pages ago...  DS9 is interesting because of the additional cultural elements it introduces like marital relationships, father/son relationships, religious controversy and eventual corruption.  I enjoyed TNG, however the "Shangri-La" world they live in I can't identify with.  I'd like to believe that all is well in the future, but after the show is over and I turn off the tv, I have to go do the dishes just like every other Joe.  DS9 gave you a Star Trek universe that was bold enough to deal with some of the untidy parts of people's lives who were not living in the centralized utopia of the UFP.  If you can't appreciate that, I can understand...  but from my vantage point burying your head in the false utopia of TNG is just as distasteful.


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

EmpokNorStationManager

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Report this Oct. 31 2013, 6:37 am

PS - Welcome to the boards DS9SUCKS

murnogladst

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POSTS: 3

Report this Nov. 04 2013, 11:53 am



 


 


 


Well, this has been quite an interesting read, and I thank everyone for their responses.


 


 


 


 


I expected some backlash against my Original Post in January, and I expected some agreements, and I got both. However, there have been a few eye opening arguments made on this forum that bring up some ideas I hadn't considered.


 


 


 


 


 


 


One was the idea that DS9 was concerned with an occupying power (The Federation) trying to help a struggling people get back on their feet in a situation not unlike present day military operations in the Middle East. This is of course a very basic point about the nature of the show, but it's given new light considering the current political and military position of Western Armies in the Middle East today. If I were to go back and try to watch the Avery Brooks disaster hour, I would watch it with this in mind and probably see things in a new light.


 


 


 


 


Many people took issue with my criticisms of Avery Brooks as an actor. I have to admit that I assumed everyone would agree with me about his lack of acting ability. I am constantly shocked to discover what people think about certain actors, though I am aware that my involvement within the industry does skew my perceptions a bit. But really, if you want to develop a talent as an actor, you have to choose good role models to start with. Avery Brooks would be one of the worst options, and I feel sorry for people who would embark upon an acting career with him in mind as an example of a successful actor. He was satisfactory in American History X. Just because he is an acting teacher ("Those who can, do; Those who can't; teach") is a meaningless defence, and one that actually proves my point.


 


 


 


 


People forget that when you have a contract to portray a character for several years of your life, it becomes easier and easier to 'get the job done' and go through the motions without investing yourself too far. If your character needs to be crying-on-the-floor-depressed, or angry-to-the-point-of-blood-coming-out-their-eyes, it gets easier to do a mediocre job of it, because you can say to yourself "this is different from the boring stuff I usually have to do on this show". People using examples of extreme emotional moments to validate the portrayal of the Sisko character miss the point I'm trying to make, which is that when he's just "being" Sisko, he sucks at it. You can see in his eyes that he's worried about whether he's doing it right, rather than just Being Sisko. A good actor is someone who gets involved with their character a little bit more every work day. This way they learn how to 'be' their character and develop themselves, the show and the portrayal all at the same time. Avery Brooks looked like he was counting the pay checks when he wasn't the central focus of the scene. And when he was the focus of the scene, when it was really his time to shine, he succeeded maybe 5% of the time. The point is really that he hasn't worked again since the show, so .. the proof is in the pudding. And seriously, he's got to drop the fur coat thing.


 


 


 


 


Another point that has changed my viewpoint, which is said many times in the responses to my post, is that DS9 was doing something new with the larger story arcs. I definitely agree, and in this way the show was innovative. It took the industry 50 years to see that the soap opera is the best format for retaining and growing viewership, and DS9 does get cudos for being there in the beginning of the movement that made it stick. I think DS9 was the first show where I saw "To Be Continued" at the end of two back-to-back episodes. Back in the 90's I remember thinking "What?! You can't have a triple-header in television!" But of course, now look at every single show that has been popular over the past ten years, and all of them have behemoth casts with massive seasonal arcs. I concede that DS9 was among the first group of shows to approach this winning idea.


 


 


 


 


Quickly, I'm amused that Bunkey labelled me a "frustrated wanna be director film school drop out" because he couldn't find my name on IMDB. Both my signature and handle are pseudonyms, because I seriously can't have my real name associated with anything I write on this forum. I shouldn't have even brought my line of work into this thread, but it was hard to express myself clearly without doing so.


 


 


 


 


Oh I could spend hours responding to everything on here. Thanks everyone for responding. Maybe this winter I'll try to watch some episodes again... any recommendations?


 


 


Mark DeSilva (anagram)


 

 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Nov. 05 2013, 2:53 am

Quote: VicTwenty @ May. 29 2013, 6:33 am

>

>The most interesting thing about Troi is how she manages to convince the crew that looking at someone's angry face and saying 'I sense anger' makes her a valuable crewmember. 

>


While I do actually like Troi (she got better), I must confess I got quite a chuckle from re-reading some of this thread and coming across this little gem. haha -- so pithy!


_____________________


On the subject of Avery Brooks' acting:


I wouldn't say he's bad. I wouldn't say he's brilliant. He does have his moments of both (and the "good" moments are not always when he's falling around on the floor, either -- sometimes they're when he's half-mockingly responding to some crewmember's silly request, or something along those lines.) But having read through this thread again I would agree that much of DS9's strength lies in some of the supporting characters / actors. (In a way, it's like a play with a strong chorus.) This is particularly apparent to me when watching something like In the Pale Moonlight, which is a great episode -- but more due to the supporting performances of Robinson, Shimmerman, Auberjonois, Siddig, even Terry Farrell who is also pretty touch-n-go in the acting department... and certainly because of the actors playing one-time characters Vreenak and Tolar!


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "getting rid of the fur coat". But then I haven't seen a lot of Brooks in later years, so am assuming this is more something recent than anything to do with Sisko. Yeah the man is mad. He's an absolute fruit-loop! But hey, I always hold that it's better to be yourself and a fruit-loop than to be "normal" and fake.


[ps. Is it just my imagination, or are those stupid captcha images becoming harder to read every day?]


 


Just thinking about this -- what would be a good DS9 episode for watching: (You may disagree.)


For a TNG fan: Duet.For a TOS fan: Trials & Tribbleations (definitely!)
For a VOY fan: Whispers (or Through the Looking Glass maybe for a bit of Tuvok-squee.)
For an ENT fan: Past Tense part 1&2.


Sorry. You can't avoid Sisko. He's in every episode (Just for the hell of it, I checked.)


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Del_Duio

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POSTS: 28

Report this Nov. 05 2013, 8:49 am

"Maybe this winter I'll try to watch some episodes again... any recommendations? "


Sure! Off the top of my head: "Children of Time", "Emissary" (first one and a good one), "For the Uniform", and "The Visitor".


And now some I don't know the names of:


There's a great 2-parter where the Obsidian Order and the Tal Sh'iar go into the wormhole on an offensive to take out the Dominion and get their asses whupped.


A great episode where O'Brien keeps jumping back and forth through time and meeting himself to try and stop the destruction of DS9.


The episode where (I think) they first showed the Dominion. Towards the end they blow up a Galaxy class starship which is very memorable to me being a big TNG fan.


The episode where Keiko gets possessed by a Pah Wraith and she has O'Brien and Rom doing mysterious stuff aboard the station.


Hmmm.. Most of Season 7 or anything with Garak or Matok in it.


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Del_Duio

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POSTS: 28

Report this Nov. 05 2013, 8:51 am

P.S: No, the CAPCHA things are terrible and it took me like 4 tries to post the above haha.


Just keep refreshing it until you get numbers which are much easier to read IMO.


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Anime Odo

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Report this Nov. 06 2013, 8:43 pm

I hate capchas.


"I don't believe in luck, but I appreciate the sentiment." - Odo

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