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Can't believe how bad DS9 was...

duskh

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 03 2013, 3:14 pm

As it developed it got better.  It has its slow episodes, but name me a series/Genre that doesnt?  Crusade was pretty bad, but  I'm sure if it was given time to develop it would have gotten better.  TNT didn't want to wait.  Same thing with Enterprise

exeter276

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POSTS: 190

Report this Jun. 09 2013, 8:13 am

I thought DS9 started off very slow, and they kept having to prop the show up by adding The Defiant, then add Ltcmdr Worf, then the Dominion War, etc... I will say that TNG started off slow as well, and it wasn't until the 3rd season of TNG when things really became exciting. As for pilot episodes go DS9 wins hands down and the opening showing the USS Saratoga at Wolf 359 was some of the coolest Trek ever sans the 2009 USS Kelvin opening. In some ways DS9 is the most like Roddenberry's vision with the diversity of the characters. Garek & Dukat are played perfectly. You have Ferengi, Cardassians, Klingons, Trill, Bajoran, Humans, etc... all working together, that's a pretty diverse group. In some ways DS9 is the least like Gene's vision with the religion aspect. Gene had to fight the TOS tv execs to not put a chaplain on the Enterprise, he wanted nothing to do with Trek and religious themes. All in all I like DS9 and it probably would be the closest of how things really would be in the Star Trek universe.

lynny

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POSTS: 11

Report this Jun. 10 2013, 5:41 pm

I'm sorry but I loved DS9 more and more each year.  I thought the characters had great charater developing story lines. The show was very dark and dramatic so in that way it did not hold true the Trek philosophy of a brighter future. But it is a large universe out there and not every planet had become the live and let live  peace loving world that Earth had.  It had a place in Trek history.  Maybe an insider's knowledge of acting and directing sees things that a typical viewer can't. I also think there are as many opinions as there are people in this world.   I did not warm up to TNG right away. But I stuck with it and came to love that show.  All the series has some episodes that just didn't float my boat but there was more good than bad.  When introducing a new viewer to DS9 I thinki it is wise to have them watch each episode so that they see how the story developed and how characters changed.  I don't think you can pick and choose.

Catholic.Fan

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POSTS: 76

Report this Jun. 14 2013, 12:45 pm

DS9 is my favorite of the shows.  I think what appealed to me the most was that, unlike TOS and TNG, it required a real commitment to appreciate.  I think I remember reading that Roddenberry didn't like the idea of a serial, and wanted someone to be able to flip on any episode at any time without having to have watched the show before.  I get that from a business standpoint, as it's hard to draw in new viewership if there's a backlog of material they need to watch to appreciate next week's episode.  As a dedicated viewer, though, watching the characters grow and change is much more rewarding to experience.  It might be a bit snobbish, I suppose, but I liked the fact that you had to pay attention to keep up with the show.  That was equally the draw in later shows like Lost and BSG.  They were these grand epics that you saw unfold week after week, season after season.  Looked at in tiny, single episode bits, none of them stand out particularly strongly.  Only after grasping the whole picture does the show take on a more grand scale.

Sisko the Bald

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POSTS: 2

Report this Jun. 18 2013, 10:19 pm

What can I say? The OP may be a director, but I disagree with every point he makes. Every single point. DS9 was the most adult of the Trek series, Brooks was a fine actor, I had no trouble figuring out where the action was taking place onscreen, and I got absolutely no sense that the production team lacked confidence in Brooks. Quite the contrary.


Also, I have a hard time thinking the OP's critique is unbiased because it's wrong about the facts. For one thing, the monologue issue. The climax of the very first episode contained a Sisko monologue about time and mortality that had to have been the longest "Captain's monologue" in Trek history. "In the Pale Moonlight," one of DS9's best episodes, was an entire episode narrated by Brooks. "Far Beyond the Stars" had more than a few Sisko monologues. You can find examples of Siskologues in every pivotal episode (and there were many of those).


And how people can think Sisko had less command presence than the other captains is almost beyond me. I say "almost" because I suspect it had something to do with the fact that he wasn't single-minded as they all were. Sisko was the only one who was a parent, the only one who was shown caring about (and visiting) his own father, the only one who also had a second important role: he was the Emissary. His ship and his crew were not his only concern, unlike the rest of the captains. Also, he was the only captain in charge of what was essentially a small orbital city (one that belonged to another power, not Starfleet, and where his authority was limited), not just a starship. And I think those differences cloud people's interpretation of his command presence... because every time he was shown doing his job or confronting adversaries, he was a force to be reckoned with. Especially once he shaved his head and grew the goatee.

bunkey

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POSTS: 686

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 5:09 am

I really don't take the opinion of a so called "director" seriously when their name has not one single credit on IMDB. 



I believe the correct term is "frustrated wanna be director film school drop out"


 

skok

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POSTS: 24

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 7:00 am

DS9 was SLLOWWW to me.  They took forever to say Nothing.  Season 6&7 were actually OK Speed wise,  DS9 wasnt all about technobabble & space battles. . . . .it was more about Philosophy. . . . .which i began to appreciate more & more as i matured. . . . .I would read a book and think "oh yeah, there was a DS9 episode about this". . . . . .DS9 was also more focused on religion,.which rubs people the wrong way(prophets/stovokor/divine treasury). . . . . .DS9 was by no means Bad, just different and more in depth Character wise than the other series'.


 


I would liuv to see a continuation of DS9. . . .DS9 20years later or whatever, just speed the timing of the plots up. . at least on the Shows. 

Trekkerprise

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POSTS: 1

Report this Jun. 19 2013, 8:46 am

For me every StarTrek series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and the 10 "classic" movie!) is even! I like all off the characters and the storyline's. I think Rick Berman and the crew of StarTrek was made a good job! For me every character, every series is even I have no reason to like or dislike something! I enjoy the shows and I always fun while I watch one episode! I think it's doesn't count which is good or which is bad... everybody has the favourite which is still StarTrek and I think that's the point!


So, live long and prosper and set phaser to fun!


I loved all the series and the movies from TOS to Enterprise, and the first 10 movies... that's the REAL STAR TREK for me! :)

MANTEQUILLA

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POSTS: 15

Report this Jun. 23 2013, 9:56 pm

you are so wrong ds-9 is awesome!!!



 


 


 


 

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jun. 30 2013, 5:05 pm

I think I read all these arguments before, but let me recopilate :


- It may well be that Avery Brooks overacts, but that has been widely aknowledged since he is an acting teacher and mostly a thetrical actor. If you missed that, than I wonder how you could appreciate any Star Trek Series after TOS, where the acting is just plain bad (maybe for reasons of its time). TNG is actually nothing more than a soap set in space, don´t get me wrong, I love the series, but most episodes are really boring to the point I cannot longer watch an episode through to the end.


- DS9 offers a lot of depth for any drama thread. Just look at the relationships between Quark and Odo, Basheer and Garak, etc. The plots include an dramatization of the shoa (holocaust) and other dicatorship based abusive policies, they include a portrait of terrorism versus freedom-fighting, they question the posibiliy of ancient civilizations interfiering with younger ones thus creating religions at a larger view. But most important, it derrives from Roddenberrys perfect view of mankind saving it from the ridicule that was bereable in the 80´s or at the beginning of the 90´s for TNG. It gave Star Trek a human face, setting up the Ferengi as the the counterpart that portraits humans as they are today.


-I tend to find out that every movie and every series also depend from a personal viewing mood. Maybe there was something that upset you, that stirred up a psycological trigger that made you see a personal attack behind DS9 .. I mean beyond that you think that you would have directed it better. I myslef see the new movies as an affront to everything Star Trek stands for, so I can at least understand the state of mind you are coming from. Still, I find DS9 not only to be the best Star Trek series of all time, but also one of the finest overall series of all times.

japinto1

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POSTS: 1

Report this Jul. 03 2013, 7:40 pm

What are you talking about!!!! DS9 is the best series of them all. Look, as many of us out there, I grew up watching the next generation and I can safely say it was a major factor in me becoming an engineer years later. I just felt in love with the science and kept me dreaminig about humanity's future in the stars. That was all very good and wonderful....WHEN I WAS 7!!!!!!!!!


As I got older and wiser, as all of you, I realized life whasn't all that simple, and this is exactly what DS9 brought to the series. A series full of complicated love stories, money, sex, greed, war, etc. 


I liked how the captain didn't have to do the "morally" correct thing all the time. It showed how life is not black and white (good or bad) but some times is a little bit of both. WHAT CAN BE MORE REALISTIC THAN TAHT?????


And besides, the personalities of all characters where more fun, than in any of the other series....There's always something to laugh about in almost every episode. 


things like 


Worlf drinking prune juce 


Kira and her sweet temper 


Dax and her sexual advances 


Julian and his holo suite-fantasies 


Quark's fun and greedy 


Rom being seriously stupd, but super smart ........ and on and on and on..... 


and yes Capt. Sisko and his overly exagerated expressions every now and then, but He was always a though captain way more than Picard.


 

EmpokNorStationManager

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POSTS: 2034

Report this Jul. 05 2013, 1:12 am

The whole point of the entire series was that the frontier was not the place where Starfleet idealistic morality base was not applicable.  Including religion, war, and other sensitive topics was the perfect ground to cover in a series that is intended to be a departure from the utopia on a starship....


 


DS9 is my favorite series for just those points....


That is all.... Empok Nor Station Manager

Vulcan merchant

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POSTS: 77

Report this Jul. 08 2013, 3:58 pm

so fact remains we can´t believe how good it was ...

Warfa

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POSTS: 14

Report this Jul. 08 2013, 5:26 pm

I loved DS9, in fact it is my favorite series and I like them all. This series has that outpost feel, we meet many characters from different worlds, it is a place to gather, defend, fix up, go to Quarks, etc. It is a dark show, post The Occupation,  pre the Dominion, and it has a semi-sweet ending where some go on with their lives at DS9 and some move on as in real life. Of course there is over-acting as should be in true Trek fashion, the stories were interesting and the storyline fluid. Thumbs up from me.

JoCat

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POSTS: 156

Report this Jul. 09 2013, 2:33 pm

I like alot of DS9 episodes. This morning I just watched an episode called Whispers and enjoyed it. I think sometimes the challenge is to find the right balance between the monologues, the dialogues, and the action parts. If too much talking takes place then the show is boring but if too many action sequences then they story line is often weak or it is not complete or something like that.  In Whispers O'Brien does alot of monologue but it was very interesting because there was a mystery taking place and he was at the center of it. Whole story is done according to his point of view. Also I have found that in all of the Star Trek series, I find episodes that I like very well and others not so much.  They all have their moments to shine and other moments when they don't shine so much.

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