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Can't believe how bad DS9 was...

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 07 2014, 1:39 pm

Quote: Pooneil @ Jan. 04 2014, 2:14 pm

>For some viewers, the war, religion, and politics were the "boring stories" -- and yes, DS9 had way more of them than any other Trek series.
Yep - Star Trek always talked about real life, and DS9 was much more real life than the other series.

Pooneil

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Report this Jan. 07 2014, 3:49 pm

War and politics might be real life, but that doesn't make them any more entertaining to watch. I'll take Voyager's stories of time travel and alternate realities any day.

shinyphaser

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Report this Jan. 07 2014, 7:00 pm

...to each his own.


 


Personally this was my favorite of all the Star Trek iterations, followed by Voyager, Enterprise, ToS, then TNG.

22123magic

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Report this Jan. 10 2014, 9:09 am

DS9 did tend to be darker than the other series'. Also, my rankings would be the same as shinyphaser's, just with TNG above TOS.


22123magic's Star Trek Games! Check it out! http://startrekgames.yolasite.com www.startreklogs.tk

shinyphaser

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Report this Jan. 10 2014, 5:16 pm

Honestly in some ways the critics are right. This ws the most  un-Star trek of the series.  It was dark, not neccesarily optimistic, it dealt with religion, politics and even showed that not all humans were pie-in-the-sky types (Maquis)


Every Series has their hack actor (or 2), each Series has that plot hole that's as big as the Grand Canyon.


What's missed here is that with the choices we have, plus a novel or two, you can find something that appeals to YOU.

Mrs.LtCmData

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Report this Jan. 17 2014, 12:11 am

I have to agree with Mark DeSilva. Some of the acting in DS9 was beyond atrocious. While watching the series, I was thinking the exact same thing. "How could they have gone from the incredible actor that Patrick Stewart is as captain to Avery Brooks' horrible portrayal of Benjamin Sisko?" It has always boggled my mind. 


Not only was Avery Brooks' acting terrible, but several other members of the cast's acting were awful as well. The entire show lacked everythig TNG had. TNG was deep, moral, the humor was successful, and the characters were likeable. (Then again, I won't say all the characters were likeable, but the ones that were are truly unforgettable.) While DS9 was gloomy, had hardly any exploration in it, most of the characters were extrememely unlikable while most of the acting was horrible, had ridiculous concepts, and was a dark show all around. 


I can't believe some people favor DS9 over TNG and TOS. Before even getting into it, the show was flawed for me because it was after Gene Roddenberry's death. DS9 sure had some times where it was pretty tolerable, but as the show progressed over the seasons, I just felt it got darker and darker and pretty much made me feel like jumping out of an airlock. I'm glad someone finally acknowleged how bad DS9 truly was. 




 

 

Feelings are irrelevant.

Pooneil

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Report this Jan. 18 2014, 11:29 am

Quote: Mrs.LtCmData @ Jan. 17 2014, 12:11 am

>

>I have to agree with Mark DeSilva. Some of the acting in DS9 was beyond atrocious. While watching the series, I was thinking the exact same thing. "How could they have gone from the incredible actor that Patrick Stewart is as captain to Avery Brooks' horrible portrayal of Benjamin Sisko?" It has always boggled my mind. 

>Not only was Avery Brooks' acting terrible, but several other members of the cast's acting were awful as well. The entire show lacked everythig TNG had. TNG was deep, moral, the humor was successful, and the characters were likeable. (Then again, I won't say all the characters were likeable, but the ones that were are truly unforgettable.) While DS9 was gloomy, had hardly any exploration in it, most of the characters were extrememely unlikable while most of the acting was horrible, had ridiculous concepts, and was a dark show all around. 

>I can't believe some people favor DS9 over TNG and TOS. Before even getting into it, the show was flawed for me because it was after Gene Roddenberry's death. DS9 sure had some times where it was pretty tolerable, but as the show progressed over the seasons, I just felt it got darker and darker and pretty much made me feel like jumping out of an airlock. I'm glad someone finally acknowleged how bad DS9 truly was. 

>
   


What I've noticed most about DS9's acting is how inconsistent it was. Brooks or Meaney or Visitor could be sympathetic and emotive and very watchable -- but only if their characters were the stars of the show. The rest of the time -- like when another character got the spotlight and Captain Sisko just sat behind his desk -- they would phone in their performances. I felt like every episode was a different show about a different protagonist, with very little holding it all together. I can't honestly say that Jonathan Frakes or Robert Duncan McNeil were great actors, but at least they were consistent.


 


And before anyone else says that DS9 was the better show because it questioned and critiqued Roddenberry's "vision", I'd like to ask: What makes it a Star Trek show if it contradicts the original idea? Without GR's defining sense of optimism, is it really Star Trek? That's an open-ended question. What makes Trek distinct from every other deep-space franchise?

kc.carmichael.9

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Report this Jan. 19 2014, 11:28 am

I love all Star Trek series so no, DS9 was a very good show and very good television.  You really need to see in sequentially because it built on so much history of the characters and the Star Trek universe that if you watch the series randomly, it doesn't make a lot of sense sometimes.  No other Star Trek series had as much intrigue and drama as DS9 did. 


Torres: "Do you believe in an afterlife?" Chakotay: "I accept there are things in the universe that can't be scanned with a tricorder."

feklhrral

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Report this Jan. 19 2014, 5:03 pm

Ya know, I'm a huge StarTrek fan. I've been to a StarTrek convention. I've collected many StarTrek collectibles and memorabilia (love sternbach prints). I have every (12) movie, and every season of every series on DVD- except DS9 I have only season 1 (had to try). I'm a little ashamed to say it, but, I'm just not that impressed, not interested in it. I have to agree- Sisko is pretty flat. I really don't like Kira. While the idea of Cardassiens was cool, they were really poorly written and acted. Well, I could certainly go on.... Thanks for opening this door.

shinyphaser

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Report this Jan. 20 2014, 3:16 pm

Frankly, and this will be my last post in this thread, DS9 is dark, intriguing and moody. 


No it's not the shiny STar Trek of Roddenbury's original intent.


Every series has its good and bad.


The acting isn't as bad as some of you make it to be.


You MUST watch this series sequentially, it is the ONLY way to appreciate it.


To me Season 3 and beyond is when it hits its stride...


Good series.


DS9, Voyager, (push) Enterprise & TOS, then TNG (honestly I only liked Geordi, Worf, Picard and Data...Troi was hot but bleh as a character, Wesley sucked, Dr. Crusher sucked, I kind of liked Barclay BUT Riker was a hack if I never saw one...)

redrage

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Report this Jan. 22 2014, 9:55 am

[quote]


I was a huge TNG fan, and can still actually recite the script along with many of the later episodes. I remember not really liking the first episode of DS9 when I was in high school, but I also remember feeling that the show got better in time (some time around when they shaved Avery Brooks' head).
However, I've recently been trying to find a good episode for my wife and I to watch, and it seems like EVERY SINGLE episode I can remember liking is actually terrible, from the standpoint of intelligent TREK-world fiction.We've tried the first, fourth and fifth seasons, and it's like watching a car crash that doesn't skid to a halt but rather goes on for seven years.


[/quote]


Yeah, when you watch the first 3 seasons they don't appear to be anygood.  After finishing the series and go back to them again you realize they where not that bad cause it ties all together.  'Far Beyond The Stars' is probabally the best Star Trek episode every by far... other than maybe 'The Cage'  Unlike many other DS9 episodes you can just jump into it with out watching the rest and beable to follow


[quote]


The characters seem designed for a seven-year old's level of maturity, and the acting is terrible! Being a director I can understand why, in part, when you look at the blocking - DS9 characters are often forced to stand in front of one another to try and emphasise the whole cardassian-triangle asthetic (and probably just to be different from TNG). However, doing this isolates your actors and destroys sight lines, leaving everyone guessing as to where the action is, and the actors looking uneasy about timing and reactions and emotional believability - this is perhaps more painful in DS9 than in ANY OTHER TV SHOW I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFETIME! You can 'see the wheels turning' in every actor's face as they so obviously go about 'just doing their job'; the audience has a clearer understanding of what these actors want to be doing after the shoot than they do about their characters' intentions! 
[/quote]


The acting at the begining was pretty bad, not all the actors fault the writers where not positive where things where going.  Pretty much everyone except for Miles, Quark and Odo where horrible at the start.  As the series develops past the 4th season the rest get better, everyone gets on the same page and the rest falls into place.  though I don't like Odo much after the 4th season or somewhere round there.  Jadzia and Bashir where down right horrible. Kira was questionable at best, Sisko was acceptable


[quote]


Avery Brooks should have gotten into the swimming pool installation business instead of acting. Holy $#!+, it's like watching a drop-out student in their first acting class. He's totally disconnected from the scene when he delivers the single-sentence lines he's entrusted with - and he can't even deliver these without moving his head around like a bobble-head puppet. His voice has only one note, and we can tell he's angry when he flashes his teeth... thank god, I wasn't sure if he was constipated or about to laugh or what... I think he thinks it's "acting" when you move around like a gummy-bear with a mild form of Parkinsons. I mean, they went from Patrick Stewart to THIS GUY?! They can't even trust him with monologues, which essentially trashes the entire TREK story-telling format. Instead they give him one-liners, the sure-fire sign that the production was regretting hiring him, and he can't even deliver these without his eyes saying "I'm mad" while his mouth says "I'm happy". I bet the cast and crew and even he knows it too... they'll take it to the grave that he was the weakest link, bringing the whole cast and production down to amateur level. Thanks Avery.


 [/quote]


To me that adds to his charictor.  Not everyone reacts to anger with a skowl.  Avery wanted to leave the show after a couple seasons apparently, once the desision was made to stay he recommited and the writers worked with him better and it came off pretty good.  Sir Patrick Stewart good? ha no.. but  more than adiquite.  The first season or two was hard be swallow at first.


[quote]


However, no-one seems to talk about this and I can't understand why. Did every other TNG fan just give up when DS9 came out, and now every TREK fan is from a totally different breeding pool than I? If someone had told me that DS9 was good when I was 7, I might have had a very different life. Luckily I was reared on TNG and TOS, so by the age of 13 I could tell that DS9 was junk, and perhaps for this reason I have a grasp on what good dramatic television is. This DS9 junk should have had a math lesson at the end that kids could work out with their parents, like on sesame street. 


[/quote]


That sounds like something a Cardiasian would say, vield insults at those who like the show.  Thanks I appreciate it. douche. hehe :-) j/k.


[quote]
Honestly I'm shocked so many people like this show. The only remaining episodes that I remember being any good which we still haven't tried watching are the first six episodes of season six. Gonna try these tonight and I'll re-post here if my feelings change any. Honestly I will, cause I would like to have this very anti-TREK view of mine deposed. However, between Avery Brooks, Nana Vistor and Ira Stephn Behr, I think I might have a rough ride ahead.


[/quote]


well you probably will, you dont' like it you don't like it.  thats cool.  DS9 ended up being very serialized the final few seasons and was more like a movie when watched back to back.  The first episodes where as well.  You really have too in that type of show, it is not like they are jumping around from planet to planet.


Alot of people didn't like that.


[quote]


I of course loathed Voyager as well, but most people feel the same way about that one, in my experience. The anomaly is DS9, and I feel like I'm out in the Gamma Quadrant, looking in.


[/quote]


 


If it wasn't for 'The Doctor' being a general dick, Jeri Ryan being hot, and whats her name that played Kes being adorable.... there would be very little reason to watch Voyager.  For the most part Janeway was okay, but everything else was rough.


All in all I would say I agree with most of what you said, most of which could also be applied to the new   Movie reboots.  bad acting and bad writing for charictors that are already mostly developed is pretty sad. (Pine as kirk and Urban as McCoy are great though).  Add in the crappy directing and you got a mess.  Maybe if I wasn't given a migraine from the lens flares it would be better.  the special effects where pretty cool though (minus the flares)


OH yeah and DS9 had Garak who was freaking awesome, Dukat was pretty cool and Demar was pretty damn good.. well until his final sceanes.. they where kinda lame.  hint "FOR CARDASSIA!!!"

You may want to check out the books, espeically those tied to the aftermath of the series.  They're pretty good especially 'A Stich in Time'  If you can even find it.. took me a while to get it and when i did i paid a crazy amount for it.

Worf-DS9

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Report this Jan. 22 2014, 2:59 pm

A real Star Trek fan likes all Star Trek, Shows ALL SHOWS! and we have the ones we like most.


Today Is A Good Day To Die

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