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Can't believe how bad DS9 was...


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 8:40 am

I was a huge TNG fan, and can still actually recite the script along with many of the later episodes. I remember not really liking the first episode of DS9 when I was in high school, but I also remember feeling that the show got better in time (some time around when they shaved Avery Brooks' head).
However, I've recently been trying to find a good episode for my wife and I to watch, and it seems like EVERY SINGLE episode I can remember liking is actually terrible, from the standpoint of intelligent TREK-world fiction.We've tried the first, fourth and fifth seasons, and it's like watching a car crash that doesn't skid to a halt but rather goes on for seven years.

The characters seem designed for a seven-year old's level of maturity, and the acting is terrible! Being a director I can understand why, in part, when you look at the blocking - DS9 characters are often forced to stand in front of one another to try and emphasise the whole cardassian-triangle asthetic (and probably just to be different from TNG). However, doing this isolates your actors and destroys sight lines, leaving everyone guessing as to where the action is, and the actors looking uneasy about timing and reactions and emotional believability - this is perhaps more painful in DS9 than in ANY OTHER TV SHOW I HAVE SEEN IN MY LIFETIME! You can 'see the wheels turning' in every actor's face as they so obviously go about 'just doing their job'; the audience has a clearer understanding of what these actors want to be doing after the shoot than they do about their characters' intentions!

Avery Brooks should have gotten into the swimming pool installation business instead of acting. Holy $#!+, it's like watching a drop-out student in their first acting class. He's totally disconnected from the scene when he delivers the single-sentence lines he's entrusted with - and he can't even deliver these without moving his head around like a bobble-head puppet. His voice has only one note, and we can tell he's angry when he flashes his teeth... thank god, I wasn't sure if he was constipated or about to laugh or what... I think he thinks it's "acting" when you move around like a gummy-bear with a mild form of Parkinsons. I mean, they went from Patrick Stewart to THIS GUY?! They can't even trust him with monologues, which essentially trashes the entire TREK story-telling format. Instead they give him one-liners, the sure-fire sign that the production was regretting hiring him, and he can't even deliver these without his eyes saying "I'm mad" while his mouth says "I'm happy". I bet the cast and crew and even he knows it too... they'll take it to the grave that he was the weakest link, bringing the whole cast and production down to amateur level. Thanks Avery.


However, no-one seems to talk about this and I can't understand why. Did every other TNG fan just give up when DS9 came out, and now every TREK fan is from a totally different breeding pool than I? If someone had told me that DS9 was good when I was 7, I might have had a very different life. Luckily I was reared on TNG and TOS, so by the age of 13 I could tell that DS9 was junk, and perhaps for this reason I have a grasp on what good dramatic television is. This DS9 junk should have had a math lesson at the end that kids could work out with their parents, like on sesame street.

Honestly I'm shocked so many people like this show. The only remaining episodes that I remember being any good which we still haven't tried watching are the first six episodes of season six. Gonna try these tonight and I'll re-post here if my feelings change any. Honestly I will, cause I would like to have this very anti-TREK view of mine deposed. However, between Avery Brooks, Nana Vistor and Ira Stephn Behr, I think I might have a rough ride ahead.

I of course loathed Voyager as well, but most people feel the same way about that one, in my experience. The anomaly is DS9, and I feel like I'm out in the Gamma Quadrant, looking in.

Mark DeSilva



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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 10:49 am

When one knows the field as in your case you're knowledgeable about acting and I suppose scripts and other aspects of film making, one can be very critical and see all the holes that the rest of us didn't. There are probably others who hate DS9, thinks the acting sucks, and the plot lines are bad but I think they are few (I could be wrong, will see if many others join this post and voice their dislike for DS9). Nevertheless, a lot of star trek fans think DS9 has some of the best acting (Avery was definitely over dramatic often which can be annoying), character development and story lines and that won't change because we absolutely love that series. If I could see through your lens I'd possibly be as critical. However, I love DS9.


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 1:06 pm

I consider the dark reflecting series DS9 as a Star Trek for interlectuals, because it's not that cherrie seeming VOY with no deep storyline. As Armin Shimerman once mentioned in a podcast: "...It's a tragic story...". I personaly see the series equal to TOS, now ST 09 & probaly STID (as I speculate for that one while it remains to be seen). Don't take it as a insult. I always thougt about the show as evolved & civilized compared to the Cold War - days TOS, and a sequel to TNG. TOS was indeed more of a high quality entertainment then VOY or ENT.


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 2:18 pm

Wow man. Too each his own. DS9 is my favorite of the Trek series, Voyager my 2nd favorite.

I find DS9 to be flawless. It was more of a complete circle than any other Trek series.

But everyone is different and has their own likes and dislikes. But I know back in the day, the top 2 series by the majority was considered TOS and TNG, and from what I can see in modern polls and just talking to other fans, I think that TOS has been knocked down the number 3 in the majority list now.

I'd say TNG is still the most popular, still the most loved by fans overall, but DS9 is definitely number 2.

Now Voyager not so much, I think the fans are split 50/50 on Voyager. Some love it, some hate it.

But hey if DS9 isn't your thing, than it isn't your thing, the beauty of Trek is that there's plenty of it to go around, and you're bound to find something you like somewhere.


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 3:18 pm

With the exception of the Blah Blah Bajorans, I loved the show. I believe you were right though when you said It got better when they shaved Siskos head and gave him the Goh Tee. It did kind of drag on in the first couple of seasons and up to that point I thought I was going to quit watching the show but Im glad I decided to keep watching the show. I loved how durring the Dominion war they showed the Klingons actualy worried. They then seemed to be more real. I think if you want to see some good episodes watch "In the Pale Moonlight" "Once More Unto the Breach" but there are so many other good ones. I will look thru my collection and give you some more suggestions.  Rob


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 3:34 pm

Wow, if DS9 is bad acting, then do not watch TOS. Don't get me wrong, I thought Avery was definitely the worst actor in the show. Some of his melodromatic moments were annoying. To be fair to him though, it's not like Wesley, Dr. Crusher, or Troi were acted much better. The pilot of TNG had some pretty bad acting as well as the few first episodes. Torres and Kim were the worst in Voyager. I love TNG, but I recognize that DS9 was better than it. DS9 overall had the most consistently good episodes. All the shows each had their great episodes, though some more than others.


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 3:38 pm

This seems kind of ridiculous to me.

DS9 is easily the second-best Star Trek series (after the obviously indisputable classic TOS).

My wife is a casual Trek fan, but she watched every episode of DS9 with me, and we loved 90% of it, which is a pretty amazing percentage for any series.


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 4:49 pm

I don't like DS9 because they like to talk and not do much. In the other series by 5 minutes there is a problem that it takes them to solve not just talk about the problem and not try to solve it.

Live Long and Prosper


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Report this Jan. 27 2013, 7:01 pm


People don't talk in 2-minute monologues.  They talk a sentence at a time to each other.  If they start monologuing, they look like pompous windbags (Dukat) or insecure post-adolescents (Bashir in season 1).  Back in the 1960s, cinematic convention was for the leading characters to talk in monologues, but that changed by the time DS9 was being made.

Brooks is a fine actor.  I don't know when I've seen a better performance of rage than him punching the punching bag and talking to Dax after Sisko is taken off the Eddington manhunt (For the Uniform).  Picard never got to play a situation like that, because TNG writers weren't secure enough to have a commander who had made a mistake and were p*ssed about it.




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Report this Jan. 28 2013, 6:52 am

Well, Here's the thing. I agree with alot of your points but most people,including myself, just accepted the weak points as part of the show and still found it enjoyable.

I liked alot of story elements of deep space nine. I enjoyed the series alot from season 3 on. However, I will agree that there was some bad acting, but, to be fair to the actors, the Deep space nine writers delivered them alot of shitty dialogue. More than the acting, thats where I felt the weak link was. If its not a natural line, no one is going to act natural delivering it. simple as that.

I felt that even in alot of well written episodes the lines were off, but, I accepted that and still enjoyed the show. I am curious what have you directed Mark?


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Report this Jan. 28 2013, 4:02 pm

I loved DS9, before i would have watched a Star Trek episode (any series) but when I first saw DS9 i fell in love and then fell in love with all of the Star Trek Universe it really opened my eyes. I think the whole thing is a bit of a rebelion from your usual Trek as a statment to how Trek can evolve and is willing to try new things, it still kept the incredible Trek humour in fact it improved on it and I was so impressed by the emotion drawn up in the later seasons with the Dominion Wars.  


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Report this Jan. 28 2013, 4:32 pm

I think I am in shock over the thread title and first post. shock.


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Report this Jan. 28 2013, 7:24 pm

I agree with you, Mark. Me and my partner have recently finished watching TNG for the first time and, we were blown away at how attached we got to the characters. Sure, the first couple of seasons were a little boring but then Riker grew a beard :)

We're now onto DS9 and, just yesterday, for the first time ever, we watched an amazing episode, 'The Visitor'. Really turned the waterworks on, I tell ya. Brooks' acting certainly brought tears to my eyes for all the wrong reasons and, he continues to do so. Before this, we'd just kinda put the show on while doing chores and, even sometimes, miss a whole show 'cause we were that interested.

That episode is the reason why we've decided to stick to it even though it's been a chore in itself watching Brooks act. You know what, as much as I am in denial of what I am about to write and feel like I'm betraying TNG as I begin to write this but, that has to be my fave out of all of the Star Trek I've seen and, we've now got our fingers crossed for the rest of DS9.

Maybe you should give it a second chance. You might find an episode you'll really like, like we did.

PS We're still TNG fanatics till the end!


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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 4:12 am

Another idiot breaking down DS9 and Avery Brooks without any arguments.

Not worth wasting your time on.

DS9 RULES!!!!!


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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 2:10 pm

The nice thing about taste is that it's subjective.

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