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"6 reasons Voyager never really worked" article

ClayTheScribe

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POSTS: 37

Report this Jan. 23 2013, 5:40 pm

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/6-reasons-star-trek-voyager-worked.html

As Voyager is my favorite of the Star Trek series, I heartily disagree with most of this assessment, but what do you all think? I think this person's a troll who's expectations after TOS and TNG were so high he could only be let down.

Also, do any of you remember the VOY episode where Janeway almost loses her cool and tortures someone and Chakotay has to reign her in? I can't remember what season but I know it must've been when Braga was writing or executive producer. Thanks 


"Impossible is a term humans use far too often." - Seven of Nine

Beershark

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Report this Jan. 23 2013, 10:48 pm

Oh here we go....


1. His assesment of Cpt Janeway is skewed by his comparing the character to Kirk and Picard. Janeway is her own character and is not intended to be a female version of any male character from previous series. She was in a situation that warrented her to balance the needs of her crew and the mission of Starfleet and the Federation. She was so much more than the captain of a lost vessel, she was also Emassador. Every contact she made was first contact. She was aware that most of her crew , including herself, would probably not live to return home.


This guys only real problem with the character is that it wasn't Kirk enogh for him. Everything he says is to support that idea but he offers no real substantial problems with the character. He says he wishes she was more Kirk like then disparages her use of the holodeck for romantic distraction. Kirk would lay any female that wiggled a hip at him!


2. So he doesn't like B'Elanna Torres either. Again no substanative reasons other than she wasn't happy enough for him.


3.I'll admitt that I find Chakotay rather bland, boring and predictable, but to complain that portraying a native american charater who's heritage is important to him, though only in his adult life after his father passed, is hardly being racists. Again the author makes refferences to original series characters. I'm starting to think he's a ST purist.


4. Harry Kim gets a pass from this guy, but his big complaint about Paris is that he has a romantic interest in Torres. Really,Dude? That's all you got? Character A is in love with Character B and this is bad because YOU don't like Character B? And he doesn't like Tuvok. No reason given.


Then he delves into The Doctor, Neelix and 7of9. (I guess he really hated Kess) I loved the part about the HOLOGRAPHIC chacter "probably isn't real anyway" Duh, ya think? Why did the cook end up on so many way missions? I guess he missed the part where it was decided that this character could act as liason and guide in this quadrent because he was a native to it! When was that? Episode TWO perhaps? I can't decide if his comments about about Seven are complaints or just filler because he likes the sound of his own voice.


So far, this guys first four reasons are actually just one, and, strictly speaking, totally subjective. He doesn't like the characters as written.


5. Voyager is the one ST series that stuck closest to it's premis, Exploration! Out there beyond the reaches of the federation, seeking out new life and new civilizations, exploring strange new worlds.....yadda, yadda, yadda.


Janeway never had to say,"Does anyone remeber when we were explorers?"


As for the Marqui, they were NOT pirates! They had a purpose. They were defending there homes. They may have been terrorists or they have been freedom fighters. Think of them as similar to contemporary palestinians.Being stranded 70 light years away from home kind of pushed those political differences aside. Vut this belongs up with the first four non-reasons.


6. yes, of course. We shouldn't expect techno;ogicaly advanced people to actually use that technology, should we?


When you boil it all down, this guys biggest problem with Voyager is simply this...He doesn't get it.


 


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

stunned4life

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Report this Jan. 25 2013, 12:37 pm

Yea that article is not really a good objective lookat the crew.

Sehlat123

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Report this Jan. 25 2013, 12:58 pm

The TNG movies were horrible? Voyager was bad? Enterprise was horrible? It's people like him who got Star Trek off the air, not Voyager.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

UninvitedGuest

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Report this Feb. 02 2013, 4:29 am

Voyager is a very good show, but the only character in it that I really like is The Doctor. Same thing with Enterprise which is a great show too, but it doesn't have many memorable characters. Most of them were just mediocre.

Spouter

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Report this Feb. 02 2013, 5:59 am

I cant log onto that link, but from the comments above, it seems this guy (?) dislikes Janeway and Torres, and dislikes the fact that Tom Paris Fancies B'Elanna - maybe hes gay, fancies Tom and is jealous of his interest in B'Elanna? He sounds like one of those fans who got a bit jaded with ST, and was desperately trying to find something on which to blame his waning interest. However, since Voyager is absolutely excellent, and the best ST show overall, he has failed miserably.


Heres my 6 reasons why Voyager worked perfectly:


1 - Great characters, and, apart from Janice Rand and T'Pol, had the sexiest regular female characters in ST.


2 - Set in unknown space, where potentially, anything can happen, rather than just warping backwards and forwards on missions for StarFleet in an overly familiar area of spece.


3 - The best Starship, apart from the original Enterprise.


4 - Year of Hell, best ST ever imo.


5 - Better FX than TOS and TNG. Obviously, since its a more recent show, but the point still stands, better FX.


6 - Voyager had the best of both worlds, so to speak. being in the Delta Quadrant meant lots of new aliens etc, and stories that TNG couldnt really ie, Prime Factors. However, it didnt stop them featuring lots of familiar faces: Klingons, Romulans, Q, Ferengi, Geordi laForge, Riker, Cardassians, Barclay...

Lannister

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Report this Feb. 02 2013, 9:29 pm

I actually have to agree with a decent amount of his points. My biggest gripe with Janeway was here inconsistency. One episode she wants to blow everything to hell and then the next she's a pacifist. She'll flatly refuse to help an alien culture because they don't look cute or appear to be inferior, but ones that do appear to be cute and inferior she'll go out of her way to help at the expense of her crew. I really hated the episode Equinox where she tells Captain Ransom that she's never violated the prime directive, but only skirted around it a couple times. She blatantly violated it tons of times. Hell Picard did this too, but at least he admitted it and reported it. Janeway lies. The fault with this is on the writers of the show going out of their way to portray Janeway as a flawless character. Even when she starts to "get out of control" and fights with Chakotay about her becoming unbalanced, Janeway will be the one to finally settle the problem and then state that "how did it come to this that we're fighting Chakotay, we need to come together" which is followed by a Chakotay praising her with a "Gee your right Captain, you're so amazing". My biggest complaint about her was that she seemed incompetent in a fight. She'd let enemies fire on her ship at least 5 times nearly taking out all key systems before firing back, but not before trying to hail them 10 times. I can't knock Kate Mulgrew's acting though. She was definitely a great actress and one of the best in all of Trek. I just wish the writers did a better job with her. The whole holodeck bit with her character was lame. I mean c'mon, her fantasy and hobby is playing a tutor to children in a society where she is repressed servant, really? And how about the "I cannot have a romance with Chakotay, because the crew wouldn't take me seriously, but I'll have a romance with a holo-bartender." I really hated how she treated the Doctor. She pretty much sh** on him all the time. The Doctor, Seven, Kes would have to argue with her over and over for him to get some respect. And some how after pleading for basic rights, then the Doctor would then praise her for allowing him those rights as if she is some benevolent Goddess. That always annoyed me. She'd fight harder for the rights of a nebula entity than the Doctor. As you can probably tell, Janeway is not my favorite character, though she is far from the worst in this show. She had moments where I loved her character. I really loved how when Tom and B'Ellana are arguing to her about genetically modifying their child, that she basically tells them that she has no right to make the decision and that it is between them as a family.


He is 100 percent correct about B'Elanna. Her character is a 13 year old whiny B****. Every episode she is condescending to everybody. An alien bumps into her and apologizes and she goes into full on whiny rage mode.


Kes has to be the worst character ever. "Gee I'm a naive elf! I'm so innocent". Her character is basically the worst aspects of Wesley Crusher in season one TNG, for instance, the episode where He's asking Riker and Tasha about why the alien culture would take drugs that makes them addicted. His naivety is utterly unrealistic and he comes across as a moron.


Ensign Kim is also one of the worst characters. It's no wonder Garrett Wang was dissapointed and was begging the writing staff for more. I mean hell, he was worrying about what Janeway might think of him for being with a women. Wow, what a loser. He basically makes Wesley Crusher seem like the coolest person ever.


I had no problem with Tuvok, Seven, or the Doctor. Paris was decent, but some episodes he too came across as a pushover. Chakotay was okay occasionally, but he may as well of not been there. He pretty much served to agree with anything Janeway said, but when he didn't, he'd argue a bit, and then agree with her. Neelix is hit and miss with me. Had they not made him a corny oaf with the whole "morale officer goofiness" I would of had no problem with him. His whole Cook and Ambassador thing was great. The episode with the whole "Tetrion Cascade superweapon and the scientist who made it" was when his character was at it's best.


The plot of the show was pretty much a throw away. They should really have just made the show about Voyager being a deep space exploration vessel charting the Delta Quadrant. The whole we are lost bit fell flat when they started replicating everything and had no problem with supplies 99% of the time. Occasional episodes featured them having some problem with supplies, but then the very next episode that goes away. They really could have done a Battlestar Galactica route with this, but they didn't. Hence why they should have just gone with the point I made in the second sentence of this paragraph.


One thing about Voyager is that the show does seem to have a faster pace than TNG or the original. With the CG they always tend to show a lot of battles happening. And this shows other big problem is that they took the Technobabble to a new level. TNG had a lot of it, but Voyager was way more.


I would rate Voyager as a 7-7.5, but no higher. There are definitely absolutely great episodes in this series. I loved the Doctor and Seven of Nine. I'd rate TOS a 5. Yes thats right a 5 as I feel the show just doesn't hold up well. With that said this show to had brilliant episodes like Balance of Terror and City On the Edge of Forever. Basically those two, episodes with Romulans, Klingons, and Harry Mudd, were the only good episodes that I'd consider watching again. With Voyager I can watch every episode, though some can be bad, but not TOS unwatchable. I just cannot stand the bad wooden acting, especially Shatners. The Cheesey FX and the bad choreographed fighting also hurts it. The TOS movies were great though, except for the first which was downright a bad movie. TNG I give a 9 and DS9 a 10. I will say that Voyager was probably the most consistent in terms of all the seasons being of the same quality. TNG's first season isn't the greatest. I'd say that it isn't as good as Voyagers first season. TNG's first season has a couple of standout episodes, but the rest fall flat. Season 2 is a bit better, but I'd also say that Voyagers second would be considered better, but TNG's other seasons blow Voyagers away. I'm out of the norm for ST fans in that I didn't mind the first two seasons of DS9, they were pretty good in fact, but the last 5 were amazing. I'll give Voyager props for having a better pilot than TNG. The acting in TNG's pilot was pretty bad with the exception of Data, Picard, Riker, Geordi, and Q. Everyone else was mediocre. DS9 was better than Voyagers though, but not by much. TOS was the worst.


With all that said, if you love Voyager, don't let me or anyone else stop you from enjoying the show you love. I love blasting on the flaws of the show, because it could have been more than it was, but to me fell short in areas like it's major theme, and them not building up the last season and the finale.

jeanluckirk737

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Report this Feb. 03 2013, 4:25 am

Quote: stunned4life @ Jan. 25 2013, 12:37 pm

>

>Yea that article is not really a good objective lookat the crew.

>


If you're a critic you are ment to be subjective


"Who am I to argue with the captain of the Enterprise?"- Kirk to Picard. 2371.

shanedp1981

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POSTS: 1

Report this Feb. 03 2013, 6:15 pm

Quote: Beershark @ Jan. 23 2013, 10:48 pm

>

>When you boil it all down, this guys biggest problem with Voyager is simply this...He doesn't get it.

>


 


In my opinion from reading that article I'd say the auther only watched a handful of episodes at most. Maybe like 2 per season. 


It can be argued that a human is ultimately the sum of his experiences. -Benjamin Sisko

Nom_The_Wise

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Report this Feb. 04 2013, 12:12 am

ALthough I disgree on his total assesment passing VOyager as a bad series, he does have a few points regarding Paris, Kim, Chakotay and in a lesser point B'Elanna.


 


The thing is that when you compare these " weak" characters vs the stronger ones (Sulu, Chekhov, Scoty, Geordi, Riker) that were in similar assignements on other series you find them lacking. It is not something that I can place like...B'Elanna is not such a good engineer as Scotty or Geordi, but it more on the feeling that they could be something more.


Voyager was a good series with an excellent storyline, which I enjoyed greatly. The article does injustice and I find it almost funny that it asks for a "Kirk", Janeway? Maybe Lara Croft would be a better Captain then???


Set You Face To The Sun Your Feet To The Moon And Follow The Wind

james.escoffery

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Report this Feb. 04 2013, 2:35 am

Translation of his 6 Reasons why Voyager didn't work:


1. I got biases against Voyager
2. I've heard of some weird ideas for people in command positions: Klingons, Vulcans, Androids, but women are indeed the strangest aliens of all!
3. I watched other Star Trek shows first, and as a result, will aggressively hate everything that comes afterwards.
4. They fired the the bestest writer in Star Trek history, Ronald D. Moore.
5. I eat crayons.
6. Star Trek isn't supposed to be about discovering strange new worlds and distant civilizations... It's about Humans vs. Klingons!

God in an Alcove

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Report this Feb. 04 2013, 4:43 pm

My takes:


Janeway Should Have Been A Fem Captain Kirk, Not A Fem Captain Picard


Nope. Captain Picard was not just Captain Picard, he was the archetype of what a 24th century Starfleet captain should be; someone who will use diplomacy first, but isn't afraid to use force when needed. That is exactly what other Starfleet captains should be in that era, and as a result Janeway was exactly that.


B’Elanna Torres Is Meg Griffin


Seriously? The author complains that character attributes like her temper were all talk, but throughout the series we see her constantly ready to smash someone's face for disagreements, perceived and actual. What we also see is her developing restraint over time, allowing her character to to develop from someone who's at odds with everyone else to someone who is capable of working with, rather than against, everyone else.


Chakotay Is A Racist Character


The only thing racist I saw was the author's summation of Chakotay...


Lowest Ranked Supporting Characters Are The Most Interesting


Apparently, fighting giant viruses with a knife isn't very interesting. The thing is, though, that while every other series up to that point has a set main group of characters, it could easily be assumed that all the background characters were routinely reassigned with new crewmembers coming in to replace them, with few exceptions. Voyager didn't have that luxury, so the producers had the unique (in Trek) opportunity to flesh out more than just the core characters.


Voyager Doesn’t Fully Utilize Its Premise


I can't really argue with that. There should have been a lot more (or, at least, an extended period of) friction between the Starfleet and Maquis crews.


Technology Is Overused Until It Loses All Meaning


Also in agreement. Technobabble when way overboard.

woodystorey

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Report this Feb. 04 2013, 6:46 pm

The Voyager premise of being lost in the Delta Quadrant made the series have a more "desparate" feel to it, where the Voyager crew was going to have to be bad-asses if they were going to ever get home. The Voyager series had it all, exploration no other crew was ever going to see in their lifetime, serious battles for their very existence and never really compremised their Starfleet ideals, they showed compassion by taking wayward characters (7, Neelix and Kess) into their care. They had to deal with Q on occasion and gave the Borg the worst beating they ever took, thanks to Admiral Janeway's abalative hull armor and transphsic torpedos that destroyed a cube with one shot....to me the Voyager series was the best of them all....resistance is futile Trek geex...

Sora

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Report this Feb. 04 2013, 7:18 pm

Quote: Spouter @ Feb. 02 2013, 5:59 am

>

>I cant log onto that link, but from the comments above, it seems this guy (?) dislikes Janeway and Torres, and dislikes the fact that Tom Paris Fancies B'Elanna - maybe hes gay, fancies Tom and is jealous of his interest in B'Elanna? He sounds like one of those fans who got a bit jaded with ST, and was desperately trying to find something on which to blame his waning interest. However, since Voyager is absolutely excellent, and the best ST show overall, he has failed miserably.

>Heres my 6 reasons why Voyager worked perfectly:

>1 - Great characters, and, apart from Janice Rand and T'Pol, had the sexiest regular female characters in ST.

>2 - Set in unknown space, where potentially, anything can happen, rather than just warping backwards and forwards on missions for StarFleet in an overly familiar area of spece.

>3 - The best Starship, apart from the original Enterprise.

>4 - Year of Hell, best ST ever imo.

>5 - Better FX than TOS and TNG. Obviously, since its a more recent show, but the point still stands, better FX.

>6 - Voyager had the best of both worlds, so to speak. being in the Delta Quadrant meant lots of new aliens etc, and stories that TNG couldnt really ie, Prime Factors. However, it didnt stop them featuring lots of familiar faces: Klingons, Romulans, Q, Ferengi, Geordi laForge, Riker, Cardassians, Barclay...

>


I just wanted to say that I absolutely love Voyager, and I love your reasons why Voyager does work, and I agree with you on Year of Hell as well! Year of Hell is not only my favorite episode of Voyager, but it's my favorite episode of Star Trek in general. Voyager is so awesome! Enterprise was so awesome! The TNG movies were fantastic! DS9 was amazing! I just don't get these fans who say they are fans but then go and hate on practically the entire the franchise.


Live Long and Prosper

OtakuJo

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Report this Feb. 05 2013, 3:36 am

Interesting. In some assessments the author of this article has a points -- Voyager started out with a great initial concept which, it is true, they never did do the best job of exploiting. Chakotay was kind of a two dimensional character. It did not help that Robert Beltran was bored with portraying him through much of the series run. And, although this does not impact negatively on the series, I never really considered that their most interesting character (The Doctor) might indeed not be "real". [Of course it is fiction so none of the characters are technically "real" but let's set that aside for the moment-- lolz.]


Other points I disagree profoundly with. Janeway was not a "female Kirk" or "female Picard", as Beershark rightly points out. She is a "female Janeway" ~~ and she is certainly not a copy of either Kirk or Picard. She can be as tough as either of them, and is actually (I think) a really strong character in a genre which, let's face it, has a pretty poor track record generally when it comes to portraying gender roles. As far as the low ratings go, I think if Voyager suffered from anything it was from being the third of a quick succession of series, and coming out so soon after Next Generation ended. If anything it would have been a better move in hindsight to have at least waited until the end of DS9, and let Voyager stand out on its own.


Much as I hate to admit it, there can be such a thing as "too much Star Trek". As for the author of the above article, they have their opinion, which I of course respect -- even where I do not agree.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

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