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The destruction of Star Trek as we knew and loved it.

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 02 2013, 11:37 pm

It seem to me that Star trek people online most ridgid and narrow focus people I ever meet.  But they tend think they represent star trek fandom, and they speak for it, they forget only small group go conventions and TOS very popular across country and world, when online happen, many who never get see watch online, so many that now many stations in countries that never cover it now cover it, cus' of the popularity online, in some cases governments worry about cyber attacks or terrorist activity because so much activity trying to access TOS online.  White Chirstian, in White Christian suburbs who never date girls but want to, not represent average star trek fan; there star trek fans in Russia, China, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Albania, Africa, etc.

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 1:41 am

I wudn't mind seeing Star Wars vs. Star Trek movie; lea vs. Tasha or Kira, something wif B4 and the droids, Chewy vs either warf or Odo, Vader vs. 7 of 9 or data or Warf 1/2 batleth & full batleth vs. light saber, Old Ben vs. Pikard, etc. 

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 4:50 am

Quote: fireproof78 @ Apr. 02 2013, 10:23 am

>

>As for racism, Chekov's accent is a reference to TOS, because Chekov's Russian accent is not realistic. Even Koenig acknowledged that, and the actor whole played in 2009 Trek is Russian and can speak English flawlessly. So, its not racist-its a joke.

>


Actually I think he may be American but with Russian ancestry, if memory serves. Might not serve that well -- but he's been in a few other things. But I agree -- the gag on his accent was more an homage to original series Chekov (Realistically the on-board U.T. should not have had any problem at all with his accent!), and that was due mostly to Koenig's ability (or some might argue lack thereof) to fake an accent convincingly.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 4:51 am

Quote: Lang-haoLeeyoh @ Apr. 02 2013, 11:37 pm

>

>White Chirstian, in White Christian suburbs who never date girls but want to, not represent average star trek fan; there star trek fans in Russia, China, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Albania, Africa, etc.

>


On that basis, due to travel costs, the internet is probably more representative than your average convention!


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Raeva

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 8

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 4:54 am

I think the opportunity to create more/better visual effetcs has a bad influence on most movies and series, not just Star Trek. It's not important to create an interesting/authentic story anymore. It seems to be more important to show all the visual effects, that are possible ... Star Trek should NOT be an action movie/series with superficial characters and illogical relationships.


What about future movies? Just destroying ships and kissing characters? I think Star Trek was much more before Abrams.


I'm curious about the film and if my thoughts are correct.


"We all have our time machines, don't we. Those that take us back are memories...And those that carry us forward, are dreams." | H. G. Wells

fireproof78

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 342

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 8:45 am

The basis of my argument is that Abrams movie is more than effects or shiny explosions, that there is a story there that is as much a Star Trek story as any TOS episode. I'll grant plot holes and some plot conveniences exist, but no worse than ANY other Star Trek movie. The fact that it somehow doesn't mesh with our perceived view of Roddenberry's vision doesn't discount the movie. In fact, you have to discount Wrath of Khan, as it was written and directed by a non-Star Trek fan.


The new Star Trek is more, but I fear people don't expect it so they don't see it.

wissa

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 4026

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 9:12 am

Quote: fireproof78 @ Apr. 03 2013, 8:45 am

>

>The basis of my argument is that Abrams movie is more than effects or shiny explosions, that there is a story there that is as much a Star Trek story as any TOS episode. I'll grant plot holes and some plot conveniences exist, but no worse than ANY other Star Trek movie. The fact that it somehow doesn't mesh with our perceived view of Roddenberry's vision doesn't discount the movie. In fact, you have to discount Wrath of Khan, as it was written and directed by a non-Star Trek fan.

>The new Star Trek is more, but I fear people don't expect it so they don't see it.

>


totally agree.  I don't know how people miss the deeper meaning in the movie but somehow see some deep meaning in tmp.  Or how they blame jj for the plot points they don't like when he didn't write it.   In fact it was written by long time star trek contributors. 


As to it being too action-y?  as far as I'm concerned action is the only reason to make a star trek movie.  Sure Star Trek can have some powerful messages, but that is done best on the small screen.  If you are going to make a tv show into a movie the only reason to do it is so that you can have big special effects and battles that aren't in the budget of a tv show and are better seen on the big screen.  Anyone who thinks action and battles aren't part of star trek havn't been watching the same shows as I have.


We welcome st.com refugees! click on the image

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 2:11 pm

OtakuJo U are wrong in so many dif ways no know were to start, so #'s more arbitrary than shud be:


#1 it is more important root out and remove racism from world than to defend something from racism; if defend somdething from racism, history (if remember ur actions at all) remember you worse than those who just act on racism out of ignorance.


#2 Racism is only unquestioned cultural assumptions (sometimes govt or society use to manipulate, but that no change fact) every culture has them, and even wises and most learned person no rid 1's self of all; so you're whole idea of defence is wrong-minded; you no defending them from being bad person, you only protecting prejuduce so it remain and not be removed, that make instint to protect 100% evil; and you should see beyond that to try to remove evil, if always get offensive you ready to star war with other culture over cultural difs, rather than improve your culture and see all cultures as evening out to equal and be willing see faults in your own culture.


#3 in the orinigin series we was a russian while we were in cold was with russia, and that is why everything done then


#4 if you suggest parody, then cleary movie made for people who hate trek


#5 even if parody, people in asia suffer 3-forms main of racism in USA make fun of our lean English as 3rd to 6th language, even though we speak better than ANY of the languages those who make fun of us; assume we immigrents if here 200 years, assume we stealing u.s. jobs if recently come here, and that we only here to bring over large family and turn area into china town slum; and racial stereotype


So parody no excuse to do something that offense to the 90% of world not speak english as first language, and to even do so is ethnocentric, which is part and parcil of racism


#6 how racist and rediculous is it that maybe 50 worlds in star fleat, and star fleat represent all earth, but computers keyed in no understand anything but english and english accents


#7 in short- you horrible racist, and as bad or worse than any racist ever represented in u.s. tv and movies, only way you could be more racist is if go to deleloping or 3rd world country in charge or oppressing or disenfranchizing most oppressed or disenfrinchized people and find positions where no constraints upon your behavior.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 3:45 pm

Quote: Lang-haoLeeyoh @ Apr. 03 2013, 2:11 pm

>

>OtakuJo U are wrong in so many dif ways no know were to start, so #'s more arbitrary than shud be:

>#1 it is more important root out and remove racism from world than to defend something from racism; if defend somdething from racism, history (if remember ur actions at all) remember you worse than those who just act on racism out of ignorance.

>#2 Racism is only unquestioned cultural assumptions (sometimes govt or society use to manipulate, but that no change fact) every culture has them, and even wises and most learned person no rid 1's self of all; so you're whole idea of defence is wrong-minded; you no defending them from being bad person, you only protecting prejuduce so it remain and not be removed, that make instint to protect 100% evil; and you should see beyond that to try to remove evil, if always get offensive you ready to star war with other culture over cultural difs, rather than improve your culture and see all cultures as evening out to equal and be willing see faults in your own culture.

>#3 in the orinigin series we was a russian while we were in cold was with russia, and that is why everything done then

>#4 if you suggest parody, then cleary movie made for people who hate trek

>#5 even if parody, people in asia suffer 3-forms main of racism in USA make fun of our lean English as 3rd to 6th language, even though we speak better than ANY of the languages those who make fun of us; assume we immigrents if here 200 years, assume we stealing u.s. jobs if recently come here, and that we only here to bring over large family and turn area into china town slum; and racial stereotype

>So parody no excuse to do something that offense to the 90% of world not speak english as first language, and to even do so is ethnocentric, which is part and parcil of racism

>#6 how racist and rediculous is it that maybe 50 worlds in star fleat, and star fleat represent all earth, but computers keyed in no understand anything but english and english accents

>#7 in short- you horrible racist, and as bad or worse than any racist ever represented in u.s. tv and movies, only way you could be more racist is if go to deleloping or 3rd world country in charge or oppressing or disenfranchizing most oppressed or disenfrinchized people and find positions where no constraints upon your behavior.

>


Where to begin?


Point #1 and #2 are arguing against assertions that I never actually made, so I might as well not bother to address them.


#3. Two reasons that Chekov was added to the original series: 1. Because they wanted a cute young guy to join the cast. 2. Because, as you say, Russia and America were enemies at that point and so Roddenberry et al. (and many fans) thought it would be a good idea to have a Russian as a member of the crew, showing that two contemporary enemies would get along co-operatively in the future.


#4-5. You are vastly mistaken if you believe that parody has to be directed at "people who hate Trek". Secondly, I will agree with you in part. There are some parodies out there which are grotesquely misrepresentative. But whatever you think of Koenig originally (I do not believe he was aiming for parody), Yelchin's performance was not intended to take off Russians generally, but original Chekov in particular. We can agree to disagree on whether this is offensive, but I wouldn't mind knowing how many of that 90% (preferably from someone less uptight) really are offended by his performance.


#6. Again, I did not disagree with you on this point. And you are welcome to be as offended as you like, alone.


#7.   And that's all I have to say about that.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 5:01 pm

OtakuJo The first two were re. your inappropriately defending a group when they were accused of racism, rather than trying to look for the racism within that culture, so that you could attempt to help remove it; you're use of the word "assertion" implies U wish to only count overt uses of racism, that political correctness has all but eliminated from America, as racism- thus is a circular argument designed to protect American racism, and oppose any acknowledgement that it even exists. There4 shows that not only are you a racist, and actively protecting racism in America; but that you have no intention of ever improving yourself along these lines, and ever culture upon the planet has racism within it, and every enlightened person on the planet realizes that eliminating it from oneself and one's culture is a lifetime effort, and know even those who try as hard as they can will find that there is always still more work to be done than they could ever do in their lifetime so that encourages them to try to do as much of it as they can in their lifetime; and you are the exact opposite of this, even while living in a world where you have access to the thoughts, feelings, and friendship of people from all over the world to allow this to be easier for you, and allowing more happiness from doing so than has been allowed to any other generations since the beginning of human sentience


 


 


With regard to me being free to be offended alone; only 10% of the world speaks English as a 1st language, and  many in Asia and other places outside the USA feel great hatred for the USA because of such jokes, so if you feel that I am the only one in the world to be offended by that, or that it is my offense that I am concerned about and not trying to eliminate the feelings that cause such actions and thoughts in American culture in the first place, then you are greatly ignorant and misinformed and misguided with re 2 the greater world you live in, and seem only concerned with yourself and those within the Anglo community you live within.


 


I accept that you are bigoted, close-minded, have a rationalizing mind, are unwilling to talk about the evils in society, save nothing for trying to solve them; so I will no waste my time trying to talk to such of a bigot and closed mind as yours, but shut your mouth and stop spewing and protecting bigotry online; because the 90% of the world that no speak English as a 1st language allow oppression of them only as long as they no greatly angered in unison, and if you continue angering the world, you will see just what can happen when that 90% say they will no accept oppression and disenfranchisement any more and decide rather than to take advantage of the wealth that come from those who try steal resources from 3rd and developing world be acting on the anger and hatred of your bigotry towards them, and then you see just how much USA based upon that disenfranchisement, and that 90% of the world may not be disenfranchised by 4.5% of the world if that 90% of the world decide to unite and stop it.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Apr. 03 2013, 6:10 pm

^ This demonstrates nothing except that some people are desperately in need of chill-pills.


A word of advice.


I give this only once, because it is completely off topic in this thread, and also because I don't have a lot of time.


You can put yourself up as an activist against racism, and certainly demonstrate the latent -isms in our society.


However...


There is a difference between activism and just plain trolling. Accusing people of racism no matter what they say is about as effective as farting into a tornado. If you really want to put yourself forward as an activist, you need to find a more subtle way of going about it. Otherwise of course no-one is going to listen to you.


A lot of the people I know for whom English is their second languages (I speak three languages by the way and looking to learn a fourth when I have the time...) would not be as quick to take offense, and the vast majority of them have enough brains to realise that railing against everyone who happens to disagree with you is 100% useless when it comes to getting your point across.


Think about any person who has ever been effective in the fight against racial discrimination -- Ghandi, King, the actors from Star Trek, anyone you like -- and you will find that every one of those people gained respect and made a difference not because they threw tantrums all the time, but because they respected other people's integrity regardless of their place of origin.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Apr. 04 2013, 1:19 am

Quote: Lang-haoLeeyoh @ Apr. 03 2013, 5:01 pm

>

>OtakuJo The first two were re. your inappropriately defending a group when they were accused of racism, rather than trying to look for the racism within that culture, so that you could attempt to help remove it; you're use of the word "assertion" implies U wish to only count overt uses of racism, that political correctness has all but eliminated from America, as racism- thus is a circular argument designed to protect American racism, and oppose any acknowledgement that it even exists. There4 shows that not only are you a racist, and actively protecting racism in America; but that you have no intention of ever improving yourself along these lines, and ever culture upon the planet has racism within it, and every enlightened person on the planet realizes that eliminating it from oneself and one's culture is a lifetime effort, and know even those who try as hard as they can will find that there is always still more work to be done than they could ever do in their lifetime so that encourages them to try to do as much of it as they can in their lifetime; and you are the exact opposite of this, even while living in a world where you have access to the thoughts, feelings, and friendship of people from all over the world to allow this to be easier for you, and allowing more happiness from doing so than has been allowed to any other generations since the beginning of human sentience

class="MsoNormal"> 

class="MsoNormal"> 

class="MsoNormal">With regard to me being free to be offended alone; only 10% of the world speaks English as a 1st language, and  many in Asia and other places outside the USA feel great hatred for the USA because of such jokes, so if you feel that I am the only one in the world to be offended by that, or that it is my offense that I am concerned about and not trying to eliminate the feelings that cause such actions and thoughts in American culture in the first place, then you are greatly ignorant and misinformed and misguided with re 2 the greater world you live in, and seem only concerned with yourself and those within the Anglo community you live within.

class="MsoNormal"> 

class="MsoNormal">I accept that you are bigoted, close-minded, have a rationalizing mind, are unwilling to talk about the evils in society, save nothing for trying to solve them; so I will no waste my time trying to talk to such of a bigot and closed mind as yours, but shut your mouth and stop spewing and protecting bigotry online; because the 90% of the world that no speak English as a 1st language allow oppression of them only as long as they no greatly angered in unison, and if you continue angering the world, you will see just what can happen when that 90% say they will no accept oppression and disenfranchisement any more and decide rather than to take advantage of the wealth that come from those who try steal resources from 3rd and developing world be acting on the anger and hatred of your bigotry towards them, and then you see just how much USA based upon that disenfranchisement, and that 90% of the world may not be disenfranchised by 4.5% of the world if that 90% of the world decide to unite and stop it.

>


 


Maximum Trollin'.


 


You should restrict this kind of autoerotic behavior to Ten Forward down under Miscellaneous. These forums that you're throwing these hissy fits in are for what their titles say they're for. 


I Am Ultra Narcissus.

Captainbeachkid

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2

Report this Apr. 04 2013, 5:34 am

I 100% Agree with soda on this that was spot on

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 04 2013, 7:50 am

leroybrock if I was trolling, then why did she jump over from another discussion to attack me here, as soon as she saw that I had posted here, and she had also attacked me there as well; she is the one following me around and trying to start fights


I had asked a question (as a title post) and she kept attacking the legitimacy of the question, and when I left there she started following me around like she just did here


and every time I post anywhere she is there attacking what I said, even if is isn't relevant


e.g. I had a talk about the best of both worlds "movie" as this sight calls it asking why they are doing it in select theaters for a 1-day only release, as the vast majority of the public will miss the oppurtunity, then someone commented saying "what are you talkign about they are not doing a movie theater release of the episode, and I posted the link to the ad to show it will be in theaters;


then she posted "think you'll find so & so is right it is the the 2-parters, not a movie" which was completely not what either of us were talking about, she just came there for the sake of attacking me.


 

Lang-haoLeeyoh

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 182

Report this Apr. 04 2013, 8:03 am

leroybrock and as I understand "trolling" it is posting an inflammatory remark that is a two edged sword so whatever someone says it can be attacked, and then use that opportunity to attack them; it does not apply to someone being stalked like i am by her, and it  has been expanded to almost any time anyone disagrees with someone about anything; well, the first is clearly just someone with poor social skills trying to get some attention or take out frustrations, and can be sympathized with and fully understood, and once being so understood can be handled the same way one would deal with a child, and name calling that person would only make that situation worse, rather than trying to fix it, so the use of the word troll in that case would be far worse than the initial action, which is very common offline and there have been offline remedies for it for centuries, and none of them included name calling that person; and the second is actually initially the fault of the person who is about to resort to name-calling re. troll b/c one should be willing to get into conversations with people one doesn't necessarily always agree w/ & online with dif regions, countries, languages, religions, etc. and the further difficulty of talking without body language (no doubt why they invented smilies  ) disagreements should be assumed as the norm, and not for someone to go into conniption fits whenever they happen.


And as stated above, both no apply to the person being stalked when someone is jumping from one convo to the next quoting things from other threads

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