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Why all the negativity?

Trekker95

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Report this Jan. 05 2013, 3:40 pm

I've never actually seen more than two or three episodes max. of Enterprise, so I was wondering why so many Trek fans (Trekkies and Trekkers alike) seems to hate on this show so much.  Is it really that bad or was it just too much Star Trek?

Broadstorm

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Report this Jan. 05 2013, 4:09 pm

People didn't respond well to it being a prequel rather than yet another sequel.  I had some doubts about a prequel, but I watched it with an open mind & found it to be really good in several ways.  The complaints I have seen posted about it are ignored with the other series, or even what they love about another series. 


People complain about Enterprise shamelessly screwing with canon.  Someone on a different board wrote Enterprise off as "a LIE" because of a screenshot from ST:TMP with the ships named Enterprise.  I pointed out a list of inconsistencies, including some completely contained within his favorite series (established & violatedall in 1 series) just to make the point that other series violate canon also, and he said I was too nitpicky.  [sarcasm]Yes, noticing mistakes without writing something off is too nitpicky, but writing off an entire prequel over a screenshot is completely reasonable.[/sarcasm]


People hate that Enterprise devoted an entire season to a story arc, but many of them love that DS9 spent multiple years on the Dominion war.


Enterprise was seasons 25 - 28 (excluding TAS) of a franchise that already had inconsistencies like the moon has craters so it really is a double standard.


You can watch most of it here although there are several episodes missing.  I would recommend watching it.  Be ready to enjoy the irony of it taking a series that predates the Federation to actually give some Federation races other than Humans & Vulcans some decent screen time.  The Andorian & Tellarites which were introduced in TOS and basically reduced to obscure references through 21 seasons of sequel series actually get some development in Enterprise.

wissa

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Report this Jan. 05 2013, 8:29 pm

I think it was the lack of burgandy uniform tops.  There is a certain element of tng era fans who couldn't stand the idea of a star trek franchise that didn't follow the tng mold.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

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Report this Jan. 06 2013, 11:15 am

Actually, I liked the idea of the prequel - what happened to create the UFP.  Sadly, B&B seemed to ignore all the previous years of Trek in seasons 1-3, which didn't do anything.  It wasn't until season 4 that things go good.

corndogs

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Report this Jan. 06 2013, 2:14 pm

I'm not really negative about Enterprse, per say;  it just failed to capture my interest as a Star Trek television series.

Broadstorm

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Report this Jan. 06 2013, 9:29 pm

Quote: FleetAdmiral_BamBam @ Jan. 06 2013, 11:15 am

>

>Actually, I liked the idea of the prequel - what happened to create the UFP.  Sadly, B&B seemed to ignore all the previous years of Trek in seasons 1-3, which didn't do anything.  It wasn't until season 4 that things go good.

>


You managed to say something on which I both agree & disagree simultaneously.  Obviously, as you said, season 4 got more into certain types of references than the other seasons, especially season 3, but through the series, starting in season 1 definitely for the Andorians, and either 1 or 2 for the Tellarites (I think it was 2), we got to see races that were established as UFP members in TOS only to have them ignored aside from a few references throughout 21 seasons of sequel series.  As for season 3 going off on that tangent as a reaction to the repurcussions of 9/11 rather than a preplanned aspect of the series, I think they actually did a good job working the Andorians into that.  I think that those introductions and story arcs were a good lead into what we saw in season 4.  I think it would have actually have been rather weak to jump right to the situations we saw in season 4 right form the start of the series.  I think it worked much better to show some tension and back story between the 4 races (Human, Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite) to show why it was such a big deal for them to come together.  I like the build up they used before having them come together.   Saying in season 1 that these 4 races had tension, but suddenly come together would have seemed rushed, not to mention that Humans were still the relative newcomers to the interstellar community, and somewhat predictably the race that brought the other 3 together.  I don't think it would have looked very good to have them do that in their first year in space.

Sora

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Report this Jan. 07 2013, 10:25 pm

Well, I think it was a few things, yes I think at the time, with the exception of the EXTREME fans who will never get tired of Trek, were tired of Trek by the time Enterprise started, that was part of it.


Because I can say many people enjoy Enterprise today much more than they did when it was being made.


The next issue I think was that, Enterprise basically did re-write the Star Trek history books, and that isn't a complaint from me personally, I really love what Enterprise did personally. I feel that Enterprise is a much better beginning to the story than TOS is. TOS doesn't even feel like the beginning to me. And that isn't a stab at TOS either, I love TOS as well, and view it as another chapter of the Trek story.


But many people didn't take kindly to the idea that Captain Kirk wasn't really the first captain, and the NCC-1701 wasn't the first Enterprise. But I have an argument for that, which I will get to in a minute.


Enterprise also felt very different from the other series, and I think this had to do with two things, there was no Federation, and their ship and technology was extremely limited in comparison to the other series.


I think some people got frustrated seeing the NX-01 crew stumped by problems that any of the other crews could have easily solved.


And not having the Federation and not having the Prime Directive and really not having quite as many species in Enterprise just made it feel very different. But it was by no means bad.


Enterprise isn't my favorite series, but I still enjoy it very much.


I like that Enterprise takes certain issues that the other series couldn't touch on because of the Prime Directive and showed us exactly why the Prime Directive was neccessary.


There were certain stories that only Enterprise could do. Same as there were certain stories that only DS9 could do, and Voyager and so forth.


Every series had something unique about it, and Enterprise was no different.


But here's my thing about the continuity issue. I think the other series can still say Kirk's ship was the first Enterprise, and not talk about Archer's ship, because Archer's ship first of all was only a proto type. All NX Class ships were proto types. In DS9 the Defiant even has an NX registry as it too was a prototype.


If you read the new Federation First 150 Years book that came out recently, that gives alot of very good detailed information that you don't get in the series. Sure you can say it isn't canon, but it was written by a writer from Enterprise, and it goes hand in hand with Trek canon. It doesn't violate anything, it simply adds to it.


Archer's ship predates the Federation.


So yes you can say that Kirk's ship was the first Enterprise under the United Federation of Planets. Which is when ships started getting the NCC registry.


Many people also say, why did we never hear of the Xindi again? Why did we never hear of the Suliban or the Denobulans again? Well I ask, why didn't we hear about the several other species that we only saw once? Or other species that we only saw in one series? Some species were kept and some were dropped.


And why do we never hear of the Xindi?


Do you ask today in 2013 why we never hear of some historical event from 1813? I have no idea what major things were happening in 1813, and for the history buffs who do, is that a major discussion topic?


Bottom line is, it was 200 years ago, and has absolutely nothing to do with our modern day concerns. Same for the TNG onward era.


 


So all in all, I feel that the majority of fans not liking Enterprise were really just being nit picky, and being resistant to change. TNG, DS9 and Voyager, were all different, but they were also all very similar, and I think people were also used to that. I've heard many people say that Enterprise didn't feel like Star Trek to them. I think it did, it just felt like it was from a different time period.


But I think the number 1 thing people couldn't get passed was that Enterprise became the first series, and TOS isn't anymore. That's something the hardcore TOS fans can never forgive. But as I pointed out, Enterprise shouldn't have been seen as blasphemy to Trek, it should've been seen as a tool to go deeper into Trek's past, and to give us a more detailed beginning as we now have.


People can complain about ENT all they want, but without Enterprise and First Contact we wouldn't know hardly anything prior to TOS. And now with the Federation book I mentioned, we know even more now. We know how we're going to gradually move out of the world we're in and into the world of Trek. Enterprise is essentially the first step in that journey of moving away from modern day into Trek.

romulan fan

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Report this Jan. 13 2013, 9:40 am

hi, I just wanted to say that the theme song and the images during it turned me off to the show right off the bat.I never even got passed the theme song before changing channels while it was on tv.

Except for the viking ship the whole thing was too proangloamerican, which i found quite biased. the first rockets and jet engines were built by the germans not the americans. The russians sent the first satalite and the first man into space and did the first space walk, not the americans. Russians also sent the first probe to venus. The americans weren´t the first to do everything. In fact german scientists are responsible for all the space fairing technology that the americans and the russians used during the space race. Germans also independently pioneered flight at the same time if not before the wright bros. Presently, the nasa shuttle program is over and judging by the state of the us economy, they wont be replaceing it any time soon. Anyone who wants to go into space nowadays has to go with the russians.  The opening basicly gave me the impression that the show is gonna be about american space cowboys, drenched in clechés, devoid of originality. As if it´s not about mankind going into space but the usa going into space and thats just bs.

The song itself was horrible, it didnt fit to star trek at all. It´s not because i think that only an orcestra-like song as heard in the the other 3 modern series is the only thing that could/should have been done. There´s nothing wrong with trying something different, they just got it all wrong. They should have went with an electronic theme song made with synthisizers and without lyrics. A good example of a sci-fi series that has good themesong developement over the years is Dr Who. Enterprise should have been more abstract sounding like Dr Who was. Even TOS had an abstract sound to it´s theme song. Being as enterprise took place so much earlier than TOS it should have sounded more abstract because there is more unknowns in the space they´re going out into. after all isnt that what the show was about? things that the viewers know and are comfortable with being new and strange to this pre-fed. ship and crew?

They should have also came up with a fitting statement of purpose as we know from tos and tng, that tells us what this ship is about. that would have added some continuity to the feel of the show.

silvik123

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Report this Jan. 13 2013, 10:53 am

I don't know if the three shows you saw were in season order because, as I watched the first two seasons I was giving it a chance, I liked the first two seasons and most of the characters but then the show goes downhill for the following seasons. My biggest gripe is that the story writing was terrible and then the show seemed to focus mainly on just trip, tpol and archer and I hated how they changed the character of Archer to someone who is always angry. I liked Archer when we friendly, open and always had a smile on his face, someone I would feel relaxed working under but I later disliked him as they changed his character.


There is something about Enterprise that doesn't feel star trek like the other series, perhaps it is because they decided to focus less on the science aspect which is an interesting and loved aspect of star trek. Overall, it was the bad writing that made me cringe watching the show and took me six months to watch the finale which was a disaster show anyway.


 

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Jan. 31 2013, 4:08 pm

Quote: Sora @ Jan. 07 2013, 10:25 pm

>The next issue I think was that, Enterprise basically did re-write the Star Trek history books,


How???when the show was set in an era not offten touched on in previous trek shows?


But many people didn't take kindly to the idea that Captain Kirk wasn't really the first captain,and the NCC-1701 wasn't the first Enterprise


Thats a bit crazy.Every fan knows Pike camed before Kirk and if they saw the first film, kned there wazs at least 2 ships with the same name before Kirks ship


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Sehlat123

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Report this Jan. 31 2013, 5:19 pm

Except for the viking ship the whole thing was too proangloamerican, which i found quite biased. the first rockets and jet engines were built by the germans not the americans. The russians sent the first satalite and the first man into space and did the first space walk, not the americans.


Yes, that is true, and I do think they should have shown an old german rocket instead of that submarine thing. But into Space Travel, it was all the Russians and Americans until the ISS. They should have shown Sputnik, though. So I sort of agree on that point.


Russians also sent the first probe to venus.


That's a funny story... they sent a bunch and they all were crushed in the atmosphere. They finally got one down, and it couldn't see anything. But of course the government covered that up.


The americans weren´t the first to do everything. In fact german scientists are responsible for all the space fairing technology that the americans and the russians used during the space race. Germans also independently pioneered flight at the same time if not before the wright bros.


That's a hard point. The Wright Brothers were the first to successfully fly, and since the intro was about accomplishments not failures leading up to accomplishments, they just showed the first.


The German Scientists made the Saturn V, for example, so that is kind of their accomplishment. Besides that, there's nothing you can really show other than their faces, which would be even more cheesy.


Presently, the nasa shuttle program is over and judging by the state of the us economy, they wont be replaceing it any time soon. Anyone who wants to go into space nowadays has to go with the russians. 



1) It was not over at the time Enterprise was made, so yeah. They wouldn't have imagined that the russians would take up everyone back then.


2) There are some things in the works at NASA, such as Orion and a mars program. But there are also a lot of private companies working on their own spaceships. I don't remember that space bus thing (after the space shuttle) having a NASA logo. Is that american?


The opening basicly gave me the impression that the show is gonna be about american space cowboys, drenched in clechés, devoid of originality. As if it´s not about mankind going into space but the usa going into space and thats just bs.


There's the space bus I mentioned, the pheonix (made in montana-- privately), and another early warp ship, probably made after a one world government. Then you have the Enterprise, a UNITED EARTH ship. American space cowboys? Try TOS. That's the real American show.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

romulan fan

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Report this Feb. 02 2013, 3:49 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Jan. 31 2013, 5:19 pm

>

>That's a hard point. The Wright Brothers were the first to successfully fly, and since the intro was about accomplishments not failures leading up to accomplishments, they just showed the first.

>The German Scientists made the Saturn V, for example, so that is kind of their accomplishment. Besides that, there's nothing you can really show other than their faces, which would be even more cheesy.

>


ever hear of Werner von Braun?


 


do some research, a german flew roughly the same time as the wright bros. he just didnt get the same press. of coarse the american history books dont say that. just like they american history books make it look like usa was the first to have indoor plumbing. or the first to invent the tv.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Feb. 02 2013, 4:08 pm

Quote: romulan fan @ Feb. 02 2013, 3:49 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Jan. 31 2013, 5:19 pm

>

>

>That's a hard point. The Wright Brothers were the first to successfully fly, and since the intro was about accomplishments not failures leading up to accomplishments, they just showed the first.

>The German Scientists made the Saturn V, for example, so that is kind of their accomplishment. Besides that, there's nothing you can really show other than their faces, which would be even more cheesy.

>

ever hear of Werner von Braun?

 

do some research, a german flew roughly the same time as the wright bros. he just didnt get the same press. of coarse the american history books dont say that. just like they american history books make it look like usa was the first to have indoor plumbing. or the first to invent the tv.


does "roughly the same time" equal before or after?


because if it was after....whats your point?


also, I know of no history book that makes the claim or even makes it look like the USA lwas the first to have indoor plumbing or the first to create the tv.


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ohio31392

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Report this Feb. 02 2013, 11:25 pm

My biggest issues with this show were very fundamental. First of all it contradicted TOS when it named its ship Enterprise. According to TOS they have the first starship named Enterprise.


Another big issue I have with Enterprise is their handling of Vulcans. They don't show Vulcans as a passive, logical, emotionless race. They show them to be haughty, judgemental, and extremely arrogant. It really bothered me that they took so many liberties with such a basic and important part of the Star Trek universe.


My last big issue with Enterprise was its poor execution of the third and fourth seasons. The concept of aliens successfully attacking Earth was a really cool idea that I enjoyed. Sending an outmatched starship deep into space to save the day is classic Star Trek. What bothers me is that they thought it was anything even resembling a good idea to drag that storyline out for two whole seasons. It was painful in how slowly they made the story move. I just wanted them to succeed and move on to a new idea.

stovokor2000-A

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POSTS: 2001

Report this Feb. 03 2013, 4:02 am

Quote: ohio31392 @ Feb. 02 2013, 11:25 pm

>My biggest issues with this show were very fundamental. First of all it contradicted TOS when it named its ship Enterprise. According to TOS they have the first starship named Enterprise.


Wheres the "fundamental" contradiction in that?


At no time in 3 years and almost 80 episodes of TOS did any character claim that the 1701 was the first starship to ever carry the nasme Enterorise.


My last big issue with Enterprise was its poor execution of the third and fourth seasons. The concept of aliens successfully attacking Earth was a really cool idea that I enjoyed. Sending an outmatched starship deep into space to save the day is classic Star Trek. What bothers me is that they thought it was anything even resembling a good idea to drag that storyline out for two whole seasons. It was painful in how slowly they made the story move. I just wanted them to succeed and move on to a new idea.


you might need a re-watch.


the story arc you spoke of only covered season 3.


season 4 covered the creating of new and satronger relation ships and the creating of the fedaration.


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