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Should we give up on the Constitution?

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Created by: darmokattanagra

Sehlat123

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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 11:07 pm

Quote: Invader_Wishfire @ Jan. 29 2013, 5:35 pm

>And was that a flawed system?


No, as Lone Palm said, it wasn't as convinient, but it still was a trade-based society, Same as now. We trade services for money, which we trade for possesions and necessities. Back then, goods was their money.


A true moneyless society IS a flawed idea. What's the point in working at all when you aren't rewarded for it? Does it make sense to you?


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 11:15 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Jan. 29 2013, 11:07 pm

>

>No, as Lone Palm said, it wasn't as convinient, but it still was a trade-based society, Same as now. We trade services for money, which we trade for possesions and necessities. Back then, goods was their money.

>


But it's still not the same.


Back then, it was people trading goods that they had in exchange for goods that someone else had and/or needed. In the end, everyone had what they needed. In this day and age, it's people working in exchange for a good (in this case, money) at a rate that's not actually worth its value, but is entirely variable. That's not trade.


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Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Jan. 29 2013, 11:18 pm

Quote: Sehlat123 @ Jan. 29 2013, 11:07 pm

>

>A true moneyless society IS a flawed idea. What's the point in working at all when you aren't rewarded for it? Does it make sense to you?

>


A true moneyless society is the exact opposite of flawed. Many moneyless societies had people simply scavenging what they needed for themselves. What's the point of working for someone else when your reward is less than a literal walk in the park? Does THAT make sense to you?


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darmokattanagra

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 8:26 am

Invader_Wishfire

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 9:16 am

Ah, yes, Independence, USA... Where the name tells you exactly what you'll be giving up.

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Sehlat123

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 11:15 am


I heard him talking about it... It's the weirdest idea. Does he really think he'll make money building a theme park about the country failing and other  depressing things?


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

darmokattanagra

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 11:27 am

"Uzbeki-Becky-Becky-Becky-Becky-Becky-Becky-Stan"


 

darmokattanagra

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 11:31 am

Does he really think he'll make money building a theme park about the country failing and other  depressing things?


He made his fortune ranting about the country failing and other depressing things. A theme park/gated community seems like a logical next step.

Sehlat123

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 1:31 pm

Quote: darmokattanagra @ Jan. 30 2013, 11:31 am

>

>He made his fortune ranting about the country failing and other depressing things. A theme park/gated community seems like a logical next step.

>


He was pointing out the lies of the government and how we have strayed from the constitution. He makes solutions, and encourages other people to stand. People watch him because they want the truth, most of which the media is afraid to report. But that's a TV show. A theme park is supposed to be fun. I mean, it's hard to have fun when everything is about preparing for America collapsing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeEHZHISpU


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

darmokattanagra

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 2:41 pm

The irony of this whole thing is lost on you, isn't it?

Kiwiman

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 6:56 pm

I can't see how American people can not leave guns to the police and government people. I would like them to name another country in the world that the people are allowed to run around carrying machine guns appart from some of the Middle East and some parts of africa, parts of the world most peolple call uncivalised and would not want to go there with out a guard.


 

Lone Palm

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 7:02 pm

Back then, it was people trading goods that they had in exchange for goods that someone else had and/or needed. In the end, everyone had what they needed.


People didn't have or didn't always come away with what they needed for various reasons (How do you divide a living chicken and retain its value?). A barter system only works with direct exchange: Person A has eggs, Person B has shoes - each one exchanges. But not everyone desires shoes or eggs, and this necessitates indirect exchange by an intermedium (Person C with Salt). And with this better medium, people gain confidence that no matter the product, it can always be exchanged for that better medium. The standard facilitation of said medium also permits specialization of labor  and the economy to grow. 


Additionally, under a barter system, one faces the difficulty of divisibility (the chicken dilemma). Money solves that problem. Overtime, the free market has defined the qualities of good exchange media to be: generally and widely used; highly durable; portable; highly divisible; and easily recognizable. 


In this day and age, it's people working in exchange for a good (in this case, money) at a rate that's not actually worth its value, but is entirely variable. That's not trade.


Trade is based on voluntary association and is separate from currency fluctuation. Currency fluctuation, as it stands today, is related directly to fractional reserve banking, whereby governments/central banks inflate a monopolized currency for their immediate gain, but with the long-term effect of devaluing the currency and reducing its purchasing power. In a free market economy, marked by competing currencies that are not manipulated, the best currencies gain purchasing power over time, benefiting savers. 

Lone Palm

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 7:15 pm

I can't see how American people can not leave guns to the police and government people.


Because Government is historically the worst abuser of liberty. Government can only grow at the expense of liberty. The goal of a free society should be self-management. If one relies on government and police, then one forfeits self-management and responsibility for oneself. How is that desirable?  


I would like them to name another country in the world that the people are allowed to run around carrying machine guns...


I do not need to name a secondary country to validate my God-given liberties no more than I need to find another person who enjoys Gumbo to validate my own taste in seafood. If other countries don't permit their citizens to carry arms, then those citizens have lesser freedom and live under greater tyranny.



Lone Palm

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 7:17 pm

A true moneyless society is the exact opposite of flawed. Many moneyless societies had people simply scavenging what they needed for themselves.


Scavenging is the key word, and it describes a primitive society with little to no specialization of labor. 


What's the point of working for someone else when your reward is less than a literal walk in the park? Does THAT make sense to you?


Not really. Can you elaborate? 

Lone Palm

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Report this Jan. 30 2013, 7:24 pm

The article cited by darmokattanagra is badly written as it inaccurately associates Glenn Beck's experiment with Libetarianism. Libertarianism is based on the philosophy of volunteerism and opposes first-strike force. Thus, a Libertarian Society would not demand or force citizens to be armed, but leave the decision to arm oneself to each individual. 

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