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JJ on The Sequel

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 4:48 am

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 18 2012, 3:03 am

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>It's quite difficult though, to criticise the movie on the basis of intellectual content/standard without an insult to people who like it being implicit.

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Think of it as a challenge, then. I think you'll find it's actually not that difficult at all.


It's not really the same thing, though -- and I think, deep down, most people know that the difference between the following sentences is pretty clear:


"That movie was a load of brainless crap."
"OMG how can anyone be stupid enough to like this?!"


If it helps, think about the difference between these two sentences:


"Man I loved that movie -- it was the best thing ever!"
"How can anyone be stupid enough not to see how great this movie was?"


Who knows? Often "brainless entertainment" is what someone wants after a difficult day. That does not make them a brainless person.


To claim that STO9 is "low brow, BigMac, sexist, giant backward leap", as you say, is perfectly fine and not ad hominem at all -- it allows for disagreement. I think you'll find that merely offending someone is not the same as insulting them. The first is out of your control, the second is not. The first is difficult to avoid, the second is easy.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

wissa

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 7:32 am

This movie is crap is not exactly intelligent conversation.  Seriously, if you can't take a minute and think of an intelligent criticism of the movie maybe you should be reconsidering saying anything at all.  This is one place where people should not be insulted for liking trek. 


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wissa

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 7:37 am

Quote: Beershark @ Dec. 17 2012, 10:37 pm

Quote: wissa @ Dec. 17 2012, 2:43 pm

Quote: Beershark @ Dec. 17 2012, 2:00 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Dec. 17 2012, 8:40 am

Quote: wissa @ Dec. 17 2012, 7:30 am

Quote: Beershark @ Dec. 17 2012, 1:03 am

Quote: wissa @ Dec. 13 2012, 2:46 pm

Quote: Beershark @ Dec. 13 2012, 2:18 pm

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really, no one is asking you to like the new movies, or even see them.  You have fun with your reruns.  Cause plenty of people are enjoying the new incarnation

Really, I'm not saying it was a bad movie, except for all that lens flare and some of the cast and some of the location choices. It's an okay movie. I'm saying it's bad Star Trek. And I will go see it, thank-you very much, because bad Trek is still better than no Trek. And guess what else, I will continue to express my opinion about it and any future Trek.

I'm not saying you shouldn't.  But I don't know why people think they can put thier opinion out there and have no one counter it. 

 

especially when they are trashing star trek on a star trek board.

 

It's because it's only designed to generate conflict. It's not designed to solicit debate. Blockman's point was well taken. Let everyone be baiting and combative if that's what makes them feel better. Arguing with them only gives them what they want (remember 2009?) and it's not like you will ever, in a million years, ever get any kind of common ground with these people. Ever. 

 

-It was designed to generate debate. YOU only see it as conflict because my opinion is oppsed to yours.

 

 

There's only one reason for coming on a board like this and saying "TEH STAR TRAK BY JJ ABRAHAMS IS TEH SUX!!!" and that's to get everyone else all spun up and create negativity and conflict. Most of these people have no other outlet for channeling their aggression, and it's safe to be brave on the interwebs where someone won't punch you out for being an insufferable jerk. 

 

 -That is not the only reason to post on this board. Artistic debate is not by nature negative and spun to create conflict. If that is what YOU see, it's because that's what YOU bring to it. You end this paragraph with an insult and veiled threat. Tell me again please, who's being negative, aggressive and trying to stir up conflict?

 

 

I don't like Star Trek Voyager very much, but you don't see me posting in that area about how much I thnk it should have been better / different or whatever. I simply choose not to talk about it, and I barely if ever even show up in that section of the board. Others will do the same with the new film franchise. "Hey, I don't like it, so I'm just going to steer clear." But, you always have that subsection that need to be "heard" in order to bring some meaningful rationalization and affirmation about their opinions. 

 

 -You have every right to make such posts and express those opinions if that's what you CHOOSE to do. You choose not to, something you also have every right to do, but that does not restrict the rest of us to following your choice. Not to mention that you opted to come here and post rather than avoid something you don't agree with. You could have chosen to leave us naysayers to grumble amgost ourselves, yet you chose instead to come here and stir up conflict. There goes your higher moral stance.

 

 

It's the same old tired story all over again. Wait until the freakin' thing gets released. That whole little minority will be screaming about the ruination of their childhood, the insulting disrespect of JJ Abrams, and the spit-in-the-face of the Roddenberry vision. And then people like me would have spent hours fighting and arguing right back. The bottom line is that it's not even necessary. Fans and movie goers spoke with their wallets, and will again. The early buzz on this film is great now that the trailer and extended preview are out. There's nothing we need to prove or rationalize to these folks. 

 

-SO, I shouldn't express my opinion and thoughts. I should, rather, blow smoke up JJ's ass about how excited I am. Think not.

 

This a prime example of what I mean. Because my opinion is contrary to Vgr23 I'm labeled as being irrational, an insufferable jerk, some kind of troll just trying to bait people into an argument.

but it's perfectly all right for people who agree with your side to announce only idiots would like the movie right? 

And when did I call anyone an idiot for liking it?


I clearly said people who agree with your side.  I didn't say you did.


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Somniac

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 9:20 am

I hear you OtakuJo but it seems to me the rudeness and insults are not only flying in one direction.


Wissa. I think my criticisms have been quite intelligent actually. Sorry if you don't agree.


What other people think of you is none of your business.

wissa

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 9:21 am

now he's a victim


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Somniac

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 9:27 am

Who? Oh me. Oh yeh.


Right.


 



What other people think of you is none of your business.

Vger23

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 10:23 am

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 18 2012, 9:20 am

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>I hear you OtakuJo but it seems to me the rudeness and insults are not only flying in one direction.

>Wissa. I think my criticisms have been quite intelligent actually. Sorry if you don't agree.

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Well, THERE'S a huge surprise...!!!!



Let's agree that trying to change someone's unlikable behavior on a message board is counter-productive and call it a day, huh?



 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Somniac

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 1:51 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Dec. 18 2012, 10:23 am

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>Well, THERE'S a huge surprise...!!!!

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>Let's agree that trying to change someone's unlikable behavior on a message board is counter-productive and call it a day, huh? 

>


 


Oh yes. I can certainly agree with that.


 


What other people think of you is none of your business.

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 3:09 pm

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 18 2012, 9:20 am

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>I hear you OtakuJo but it seems to me the rudeness and insults are not only flying in one direction.

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Yes and neither was my suggestion intended to go in only one direction.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 18 2012, 3:14 pm

Quote: wissa @ Dec. 18 2012, 7:32 am

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>This movie is crap is not exactly intelligent conversation. 

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Well yes that's true, if it were the only justification without giving cause, but... example: I think American Beauty is crap. Say it once and it's just expressing an opinion. Say it ad nauseam and it would become more than a little repetitive.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

ttrek42

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Report this Dec. 19 2012, 6:50 pm

I'm curious, does anyone think Abrams gives a damn about any of the opinions on his movies?  This is not rhetorical, I really am curious.

Beershark

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Report this Dec. 19 2012, 8:14 pm

I don't think he does. He makes the movies he wants to make and he makes them profitable.


Just to be clear I don't believe JJ is bad at what he does. I just think that he's bad at Star Trek. I was excited about him doing Star Trek until I saw the movie, then I was dissapointed. Again to clearify, IMHO it was am okay scifi action flick, just not good Star Trek. I was hoping they would find someone else for this film, but alas, the box office hath spoken.


I will go see the movie and hope that it exceeds my expectations.


CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! Soylent Green is people.

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Dec. 19 2012, 9:22 pm

Quote: ttrek42 @ Dec. 19 2012, 6:50 pm

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>I'm curious, does anyone think Abrams gives a damn about any of the opinions on his movies?  This is not rhetorical, I really am curious.

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I think he does to some extent, but it's like that age-old conundrum; a lot of famous people say that they don't read gossip columns and opinion pieces about themselves any more because it would screw with their heads. Neither can a director spend all his time worrying about what haters are going to say.


Once a work is out there for the public to see, it then becomes open to all sorts of opinions and while it doesn't do to close oneself off to constructive criticism, neither is it helpful to take note of every bit of negative feedback that comes from the mess of opinion that is the Internet.


Remember he has already promised Paramount something and as long as his "vision" is a success, he is obligated to deliver more of the same. And remember too that a lot of fans still like the movies, so it's not all a matter of JJ not listening to opinions. Would he take note of a thread such as this? I doubt it.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

netral

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Report this Dec. 23 2012, 10:16 am

okay, so j.j. is really off there. All he did was make the characters less "lovable" (I use that term losely, especially with spock) first of all I was like what the heck? when spock was dating.... Uhura?! I mean, what rupture in the space/time continuim made that happen????? I think the movie, from an overall perspective, was good. The only thing I dont like is when I meet people who think that this is star trek. Im like " Seriously?! there is like 6 other series, not to mention movies!!! This movie is set in a goddamn PARELELL UNIVERSE!!!!!" Okay, so I get kind of worked up, but wouldnt you????


Romulans are awesome. This is a fact. I am a firm believer in the fact that someday romulans will rule the galaxy. AND LOGIC WILL DIE (take that spock)

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 23 2012, 12:51 pm

Quote: netral @ Dec. 23 2012, 10:16 am

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>Okay, so I get kind of worked up, but wouldnt you????

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Not really but if someone gets interested on that basis I'd be more inclined to say, "And yeah if you're interested there are about 40 years of television left for you to see." It's an opportunity.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

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