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JJ on The Sequel

fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this Mar. 01 2013, 10:30 pm

Quote:

Spocks character was destroyed in Abrams movie..


This may be beating a dead horse, but why? Spock is shown as being young, slightly rebellious (his remarks to the Vulcan Science Academy board, which actually seems to fit in line with Sarek's disappointment in him in Journey to Babel).  His maturity is not completely their yet. He has several sore trigger points, and maybe he isn't always reciprocating with Uhura because he feels conflicted over his feelings for her.


Again, might be beating a dead horse and some people just will not enjoy this film. But to say, "This is out of character" to me is almost unfair assessment because these are not 1 to 1 carbon copies of TOS characters.


Besides, if Nimoy gave his stamp of approval for Quinto's Spock, shouldn't we be more open about it?

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 3:23 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Mar. 01 2013, 10:28 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 01 2013, 9:54 pm

>

>

>I think classic Uhura defined her skills clearly, Not only was she in charge of the communications dept, she could also work the helm to pilot the ship, if she didn't speak alien dialects, so what ? they used the universal translator which is more effective.

Sorry but you are wrong there, or have you forgotton "The undiscovered country"

the universal translater could not be used because they would have been caught in klingon territory.

So what that she didnt speak Klingon or romulan?>???Dude, that was her job, and apparently she was incompetent

.If seems Nu Uhura was more interested in Spock than he was in her.

I dont see a point here

In some episodes Spock's behavior became compromised by influences 

multible influances, which included women, deny it to yourself if youj like, but we all know the truth.

Picard was good enough to lead when given the chance, he spent enough time in Star Fleet perfecting his skills.

He wasant in the fleet that long when he took command of the Stargazer

Martok is a Klingon, they move up in rank through assasinations. 

Maybe you should do some research before you post.

Thats not how Martok moved up in rank, heck he wasnt even a soldier, he was a janitor.


 


Well, in the Undiscovered Country Uhura DID find away to trick the Klingons did she not ?your point is moot, the Klingons didn't have their own language in TOS, and if Uhura had need to know I'm sure she would,   and the Romulans didn't show up until "Balance Of Terror" the Vulcans barely knew them so a Romulan dialect was not possible. Still it's hard to believe the Federation Flagship being run by cadets, excuse me "Lieutenants".


New Uhura clearly was more interested in Spock than her job


Picard was an experience BRIDGE officer when he took command of the StarGazer, he took charge in an emergency situation and was offered his own command, unlike Abrams Kirk who got command out of foolishness, Pike was so sure he was going to die when Nero called him over Pike gave his ship to Spock, I can never Imagine Jeffrey Hunters Pike giving up so easy, again Abrams Destroyed a Trek character.


Research ? I guarantee you, I've studied Trek for over 20 years..I think I'm well informed on this subject.  


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 3:33 pm

Quote: fireproof78 @ Mar. 01 2013, 10:30 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>Spocks character was destroyed in Abrams movie..

This may be beating a dead horse, but why? Spock is shown as being young, slightly rebellious (his remarks to the Vulcan Science Academy board, which actually seems to fit in line with Sarek's disappointment in him in Journey to Babel).  His maturity is not completely their yet. He has several sore trigger points, and maybe he isn't always reciprocating with Uhura because he feels conflicted over his feelings for her.

Again, might be beating a dead horse and some people just will not enjoy this film. But to say, "This is out of character" to me is almost unfair assessment because these are not 1 to 1 carbon copies of TOS characters.

Besides, if Nimoy gave his stamp of approval for Quinto's Spock, shouldn't we be more open about it?


I'd think Nimoy was being "compromised' into agreeing to this film, Abrams took everything from his Spock and destroyed it, True, a new film should be carbon copies of TOS, but we at LEAST want to see something new.. Spock is an alien, Quinto's Spock did not portray this, take away his pointed ears and eyebrows and he's just a normal teen, there's no mystery or intrigue in Abrams version of Spock, right? if I'm wrong please inform me.


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

leroybrock

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 213

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 3:41 pm

Wow. Just wow. It's a shame that you can't be medicated for your narcissism. Now you're just going to claim whatever you want about Nimoy? "Comptomised"? Get a damned life. You're just lying and trolling and trying to pass off your crappy opinions as fact. Fill your basement with tears and whining all you want. Everyone else with a clue will still go and enjoy Star Trek.

I Am Ultra Narcissus.

fireproof78

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 342

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 9:12 pm

[quote]


[quote]


Quote:

Spocks character was destroyed in Abrams movie..


This may be beating a dead horse, but why? Spock is shown as being young, slightly rebellious (his remarks to the Vulcan Science Academy board, which actually seems to fit in line with Sarek's disappointment in him in Journey to Babel).  His maturity is not completely their yet. He has several sore trigger points, and maybe he isn't always reciprocating with Uhura because he feels conflicted over his feelings for her.


Again, might be beating a dead horse and some people just will not enjoy this film. But to say, "This is out of character" to me is almost unfair assessment because these are not 1 to 1 carbon copies of TOS characters.


Besides, if Nimoy gave his stamp of approval for Quinto's Spock, shouldn't we be more open about it?


[/quote]


I'd think Nimoy was being "compromised' into agreeing to this film, Abrams took everything from his Spock and destroyed it, True, a new film should be carbon copies of TOS, but we at LEAST want to see something new.. Spock is an alien, Quinto's Spock did not portray this, take away his pointed ears and eyebrows and he's just a normal teen, there's no mystery or intrigue in Abrams version of Spock, right? if I'm wrong please inform me.


[/quote]


I would like to believe that Nimoy was more than capable of making a good decision regarding a movie he participated in. Seeing as how he has turned down multiple opportunities to be in Star Trek films and shows except at his own choosing, I would say that the evidence indicates he his not compromised. I feel you are wrong in your assessment of Spock's character. If Spock was only to behave like his TOS/Movie appearances then there would be no room for scenes like this:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Wy1zH-WhOl4/Trq_UXDoBmI/AAAAAAAAILA/sTvmTQRp-e0/s1600/Martian+Spock+in+the+Cage.jpg


or this: "The Women!"


http://whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/vlcsnap-2012-03-18-00h40m33s158.png


Nimoy has always played Spock has someone under control, but not emotionless. So, his younger incarnation is more emotional because he hasn't completely mastered logic makes sense to me. Especially as it relates to his mother, who is even established in "The Naked Time" as being one of Spock's emotional triggers:


http://dauntlessmedia.net/startrek/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/tos-104-the-naked-time-300x225.gif


I think the new movie establishes that emotions are one of the running themes. Kirk's impulsive behavior almost gets him killed a couple of times, while Spock's own emotional outburst almost kills a man. Nero is the opposite of Spock, consumed with emotions to the point of insanity. Sarek's quote that emotions run deep in their race, in many ways, deeper than the humans:


http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9904/splay2.jpg


That moment illustrates the depth of the emotions of Vulcans and their need for logic.


 I am honestly not sure how Nimoy's approval can be ignored given his past acting as Spock.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 10:04 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 04 2013, 3:23 pm

>Well, in the Undiscovered Country Uhura DID find away to trick the Klingons did she not ?


No, it was Scotty that worked out that plan.....so your point is moot.


the Klingons didn't have their own language in TOS,and if Uhura had need to know I'm sure she would,


the klingons always had their own language as far as the story goes.Not to memtion that a direct claim to their languge is mentioned in the TOS episode "the trouble with tribbles"


and production wise, the klingon language started getting used in The search for spock.Even Kirk knew how to speak klingon,Sorry buddy, but with all the fighting with the klingons over the years, Uhurs certinly needed to know the basic langue.


  and the Romulans didn't show up until "Balance Of Terror" the


you really need to brush up on trek history.Did you forget about the Earth/Romulan war???That was 100+ years before the events seen in "Balance of terror"


Still it's hard to believe the Federation Flagship being run by cadets, excuse me "Lieutenants".


so, I guess you completly forgot about "Thew Wrath of Khann", besides Spock, Scotty and Kirks insepection team, the ship was full of cadets.


Picard was an experience BRIDGE officer when he took command of the StarGazer, 


no he wasnt.He was a young and new to his postion at the time.


Research ? I guarantee you, I've studied Trek for over 20 years..I think I'm well informed on this subject.  


well so far your knowlidge seems to have failed you


You were wrong in saying there was no klingon langue in TOS and about the romulans


I'd think Nimoy was being "compromised' into agreeing to this film,  


Really?


Are your debating skills so poor that you'll sing to insulting Nimoy like that.?   Nimoy has turned down pleanty of different oppertunities to reprise his role of Spock in both film and yv episodes.If he felt Abrams depiction of the character was in error, he wouyld have spoken up, or denied the part he played.   Spock looked like an alien, but at times he was the most human of them all.   Even Kirk makes mention of that at Spocks funeral.


Photobucket

fireproof78

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POSTS: 342

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 11:08 pm



Well, in the Undiscovered Country Uhura DID find away to trick the Klingons did she not ?your point is moot, the Klingons didn't have their own language in TOS, and if Uhura had need to know I'm sure she would,   and the Romulans didn't show up until "Balance Of Terror" the Vulcans barely knew them so a Romulan dialect was not possible. Still it's hard to believe the Federation Flagship being run by cadets, excuse me "Lieutenants".


The Klingons in TOS refer to their own language known simply as “Klingonese” (Trouble with Tribbles). The Klingon first officer, Korax, states that half the quadrant knows that the Federation is losing and is learning Klingonese.


 


Regarding the Romulans, within the same episode you cite, they state that the Earth-Romulan war had occurred 100 years ago, and that the tactical officer, Mr. Stiles, had an ancestor fight in it. So, the Federation clearly knew about Romulans, that there was disputes and wars with them and would need to know their language. You do not need to see someone face to face to learn about their language, especially with subspace radios.


 


What evidence do we have that the Enterprise is run entirely by cadets? We do not see Chekov, Sulu, Olson, Dr. Puri (the Chief Medical Officer killed in the attack), McKenna (the helmsman Sulu replaced), Hawkins (the communications officer Uhura replaced) in cadet uniforms. There is no indication that all personal aboard the Enterprise were cadets.


New Uhura clearly was more interested in Spock than her job


Based upon what? Her concern for him after the loss of his homeworld? Her desire to serve on the flagship when she says she has demonstrated competence in her field, and even he just admits that it is an attempt to avoid favoritism? She even states in her quarters that she picked up a distress call from the Klingon homeworld. Clearly she is interested in her job.


 


Picard was an experience BRIDGE officer when he took command of the StarGazer, he took charge in an emergency situation and was offered his own command, unlike Abrams Kirk who got command out of foolishness, Pike was so sure he was going to die when Nero called him over Pike gave his ship to Spock, I can never Imagine Jeffrey Hunters Pike giving up so easy, again Abrams Destroyed a Trek character.


But, the point is that Hunter’s Pike and Greenwood’s Pike are two people with different experiences and different temperaments. Abrams’ Pike knew the reports of Captain Robeau and his untimely demise at the hands of Nero. But, to not go over would mean to risk the lives of his crew.


 


Far from destroying a character, I think that Pike and Robeau represent two captains that weigh risks and decide that personal loss is better than crew lost. Besides, if he thought he was going to die, he wouldn’t have told them to come rescue him. But, for arguments sake, how do you see Hunter’s Pike handling Nero?


 


I have already detailed the reasons for Kirk’s promotion in two other posts. I don’t feel the need to rehash it. I’ll happily point it out to you though


Research ? I guarantee you, I've studied Trek for over 20 years..I think I'm well informed on this subject.


I’m glad for you but let me ask you-do you know Roddenberry’s inspiration for Star Trek? Did you know that he understood that Trek  would change with the times and expected someone else to come along and give their own spin to Trek?


Many on these boards would consider themselves well informed but that does not eliminate the need to keep learning.

fireproof78

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 342

Report this Mar. 04 2013, 11:29 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 04 2013, 3:23 pm

>

>Picard was an experience BRIDGE officer when he took command of the StarGazer, he took charge in an emergency situation and was offered his own command, unlike Abrams Kirk who got command out of foolishness, Pike was so sure he was going to die when Nero called him over Pike gave his ship to Spock, I can never Imagine Jeffrey Hunters Pike giving up so easy, again Abrams Destroyed a Trek character.

>


Ok, I said I wasn't going to rehash it but I haven't posted this in THIS thread yet...


This is one where I actually will disagree. Saavik is shown having Lieutenant's ranking on her uniform, and is refered to as Lieutenant throughout Wrath of Khan, not as cadet.


 


Warning: Long, winding fan thesis following.


Stated above is the idea that Kirk's promotion is "foolishness." So, I looked up foolishness: folly: the trait of acting stupidly or rashly.


wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
 
So, Starfleet is apparently either stupid or rash, neither of which flows from the movie as presented.

 


I get that no argument will ever satisfy everyone but I will make an attempt. I mean no offense to anyone but I will be picking apart some comments.


 


There are several claims about Kirk's promotion would not work in any real world military. However, Starfleet is not a real world military. Despite later incarnations of Starfleet, it is not a military organization.


This goes back to Roddenberry's original inspiration for Starfleet. He was inspired by Robert Heinlein's "Space Cadet" novel which describes an exploration and peace keeping organization from the viewpoint of a cadet from Iowa.


One of the best descriptions of the Space Patrol in Space Cadet is that it is not a military organization. Yes, it has a military structure, ranks and protocols, but it is not a military like the American Navy. This point is important because Heinlien was an experienced naval officer so he could have made the Space Patrol the Space Navy.


It is certainly inspired by the American Navy but it is not one to one comparison. As stated, Roddenberry had his own military experience, but behind the scenes documents show that this was not his only inspiration.


 


In Starfleet, we have been shown that cadets can be moved in to the chain of command as matter of their schooling. Saavik being a great example as a senior, command school, cadet who is shown wearing lieutenant's rank in Wrath of Khan. Saavik easily steps in to the chain, being given the bridge towards the end of the movie.


In addition, Picard takes command of the Stargazer and is later promoted for his success and given captaincy of the same ship, despite being a lieutenant commander. So, did he skip the rank of commander?


So, we have precedent that cadets are not just cadets, but expected to be able to step in to the chain of command. We also have precedent for skipping ranks within the organization. 


In addition to film examples, we also have real world military and fictional military examples. One aspect of military life is the chain of command. In Starship Troopers, it is discussed that the chain is there to ensure that people know their place, that it is real organization to maintain order. In that novel, officer candidates are made 3rd lieutenants to place them in the chain of command, to give orders and command troops in a legal manner.


 


 In a similar manner, if cadets were to serve in an emergency situation, such as McCoy or Uhura, they would need to be placed in the chain of command. Once that is done, they are eligible to move up that chain if officers are killed or incapacitated. McCoy becomes chief medical officer after the Enterprise's CMO is killed in Nero's attack. Similarly, Scotty takes over as Chief Engineer once aboard the Enterprise.


 


 Kirk may have only been a cadet-lieutenant but once Pike placed him as first officer, he was placed above in the chain of command. While no promotion may not have been apart of it, it clearly shows Pike's confidence in Kirk, and places him over other officers.


I recall one review of Abrams Star Trek and said that if they were Spock, they would resent being under Kirk's command. Why? Spock is a science officer, who enjoys teaching and learning. Kirk is in the command school, clearly working towards actively commanding a starship at some point in his career. If Spock was going to be so hurt over serving under someone else's command, then perhaps he should have sought a command of his own. I can't imagine Starfleet would turn him down after calling him "one of the Academy's most distinguished graduates." Even in Wrath of Khan, Spock tells Kirk that he has no ego to bruise and that Kirk's best destiny is to command a starship. So, Spock doesn't aspire for command but will do so as required. 


In addition, how many officers were lost in Nero's attacks? How many officers were available to fill in the lost positions. How will Starfleet will replace those experienced line officers from the destroyed ships? How many experienced officers are available?


I get that people don't like the movie, and some of the events strain feasibility if not break it at some point. It doesn't mean that the overall piece doesn't work, and this include Kirk's promotion

guillermo.mejía

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2852

Report this Mar. 05 2013, 6:32 am

It was mentioned above that it seemed unlikely that the Enterprise was run by cadets, being the flagship of the Federation, but that statement is flawed. First, the concept of a flagship of the Federation was introduced in TNG with Picard saying it every so often. Before Abrams' movie, that phrase had never been uttered in Kirk's time. Secondly, Orci and Kurtzman are TNG fans who wrote a TOS movie, hence the term is used by Pike.


Canonically this means that you could call the Enterprise the flagship...when it was in its prime. By STII, the ship is mostly a training vessle, which would be ordered to be decommissioned in the next film...less than a month in chronology. I doubt by the 2280s Starfleet is still calling the Enterprise the flagship.

He'sDeadJim6400

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 113

Report this Mar. 05 2013, 4:42 pm

Quote: fireproof78 @ Mar. 04 2013, 9:12 pm

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

Quote: /view_profile/ @

>

>

>

>Spocks character was destroyed in Abrams movie..

This may be beating a dead horse, but why? Spock is shown as being young, slightly rebellious (his remarks to the Vulcan Science Academy board, which actually seems to fit in line with Sarek's disappointment in him in Journey to Babel).  His maturity is not completely their yet. He has several sore trigger points, and maybe he isn't always reciprocating with Uhura because he feels conflicted over his feelings for her.

Again, might be beating a dead horse and some people just will not enjoy this film. But to say, "This is out of character" to me is almost unfair assessment because these are not 1 to 1 carbon copies of TOS characters.

Besides, if Nimoy gave his stamp of approval for Quinto's Spock, shouldn't we be more open about it?

I'd think Nimoy was being "compromised' into agreeing to this film, Abrams took everything from his Spock and destroyed it, True, a new film should be carbon copies of TOS, but we at LEAST want to see something new.. Spock is an alien, Quinto's Spock did not portray this, take away his pointed ears and eyebrows and he's just a normal teen, there's no mystery or intrigue in Abrams version of Spock, right? if I'm wrong please inform me.

I would like to believe that Nimoy was more than capable of making a good decision regarding a movie he participated in. Seeing as how he has turned down multiple opportunities to be in Star Trek films and shows except at his own choosing, I would say that the evidence indicates he his not compromised. I feel you are wrong in your assessment of Spock's character. If Spock was only to behave like his TOS/Movie appearances then there would be no room for scenes like this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Wy1zH-WhOl4/Trq_UXDoBmI/AAAAAAAAILA/sTvmTQRp-e0/s1600/Martian+Spock+in+the+Cage.jpg

or this: "The Women!"

http://whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/vlcsnap-2012-03-18-00h40m33s158.png

Nimoy has always played Spock has someone under control, but not emotionless. So, his younger incarnation is more emotional because he hasn't completely mastered logic makes sense to me. Especially as it relates to his mother, who is even established in "The Naked Time" as being one of Spock's emotional triggers:

http://dauntlessmedia.net/startrek/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/tos-104-the-naked-time-300x225.gif

I think the new movie establishes that emotions are one of the running themes. Kirk's impulsive behavior almost gets him killed a couple of times, while Spock's own emotional outburst almost kills a man. Nero is the opposite of Spock, consumed with emotions to the point of insanity. Sarek's quote that emotions run deep in their race, in many ways, deeper than the humans:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9904/splay2.jpg

That moment illustrates the depth of the emotions of Vulcans and their need for logic.

 I am honestly not sure how Nimoy's approval can be ignored given his past acting as Spock.


First, I am a huge Nimoy fan, I love what he created in Spock, we all have our personal feelings on Abrams'  movie, I just felt Nimoys Spock was out of place in the movie and the red matter / time travel stuff was silly..I see what you're saying, fireproof, but you will recall how TOS Spock was always an outsider in contrast to Human's he was still learning why and how they use their emotions, in the new movie Abrams Spock shows some of this but to throw himself into a human female so quickly in my opinion he wasn't really acting Vulcan.. 


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

Mitchz95

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1830

Report this Mar. 05 2013, 4:45 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 05 2013, 4:42 pm

>

>but to throw himself into a human female so quickly in my opinion he wasn't really acting Vulcan.. 

>


Remember, Uhura had been at the Academy for three years. That's plenty of time to start a relationship.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 05 2013, 5:15 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 05 2013, 4:42 pm

>First, I am a huge Nimoy fan, I love what he created in Spock, we all have our personal feelings on Abrams'  movie, I just felt Nimoys Spock was out of place in the movie and the red matter / time travel stuff was silly..I see what you're saying, fireproof, but you will recall how TOS Spock was always an outsider in contrast to Human's he was still learning why and how they use their emotions, in the new movie Abrams Spock shows some of this but to throw himself into a human female so quickly in my opinion he wasn't really acting Vulcan..


Well let me first complement you, so far this is trhe first thought out complaint  you have posted.


Its true, this film had its flaws, but I dont find red matter and the time travel any sillyer then useing nuclear radiation to re-crystalised dilithium crystals so they can sling shot around the sun.


Trek is full ofsimilar McGuffins created solely to explain away some impossible event.


As for Spock, this is when he was young. a time we already know him to be more in conflict with his human side.


Photobucket

He'sDeadJim6400

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POSTS: 113

Report this Mar. 05 2013, 5:17 pm

Quote: stovokor2000-A @ Mar. 04 2013, 10:04 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 04 2013, 3:23 pm

>

>Well, in the Undiscovered Country Uhura DID find away to trick the Klingons did she not ?

No, it was Scotty that worked out that plan.....so your point is moot.

the Klingons didn't have their own language in TOS,and if Uhura had need to know I'm sure she would,

the klingons always had their own language as far as the story goes.Not to memtion that a direct claim to their languge is mentioned in the TOS episode "the trouble with tribbles"

and production wise, the klingon language started getting used in The search for spock.Even Kirk knew how to speak klingon,Sorry buddy, but with all the fighting with the klingons over the years, Uhurs certinly needed to know the basic langue.

  and the Romulans didn't show up until "Balance Of Terror" the

you really need to brush up on trek history.Did you forget about the Earth/Romulan war???That was 100+ years before the events seen in "Balance of terror"

Still it's hard to believe the Federation Flagship being run by cadets, excuse me "Lieutenants".

so, I guess you completly forgot about "Thew Wrath of Khann", besides Spock, Scotty and Kirks insepection team, the ship was full of cadets.

Picard was an experience BRIDGE officer when he took command of the StarGazer, 

no he wasnt.He was a young and new to his postion at the time.

Research ? I guarantee you, I've studied Trek for over 20 years..I think I'm well informed on this subject.  

well so far your knowlidge seems to have failed you

You were wrong in saying there was no klingon langue in TOS and about the romulans

I'd think Nimoy was being "compromised' into agreeing to this film,  

Really?

Are your debating skills so poor that you'll sing to insulting Nimoy like that.?   Nimoy has turned down pleanty of different oppertunities to reprise his role of Spock in both film and yv episodes.If he felt Abrams depiction of the character was in error, he wouyld have spoken up, or denied the part he played.   Spock looked like an alien, but at times he was the most human of them all.   Even Kirk makes mention of that at Spocks funeral.


Scotty HELP Uhura to work out a plan she Spoke it remember ? If Klingons are speaking in standard english you'll look foolish going GAH ! K'PLAH ! to them, if there was a NEED to speak the language Uhura could figer it out, if her memory was wiped clean and she was re-educated surely she would know  klingon if it was a need for it.And for the record, the Klingons Started using their language in Star Trek-The Motion Picture Not in The Search For Spock. 


Who said the Romulans were using another Language in the Romulan/Earth War ? they never saw each other ?


The Crew in "the Wrath Of Khan" were cadet "Trainees". the Enterprise wasn't even on Duty, there was a reason for this inexperience crew, in Abrams movie they had an incident and everyone threw a bunch of inexperience teens on the flagship, where are the adults or experience crew is ? Pike is the oldest Starfleet member in the entire movie that I saw, and the first sign of trouble he got scared and gives up the ship to Spock and Kirk, why ? .    


Picard was a bridge officer when took command, early in his career he led an away team to Milika 3 to save an ambassador, showing his leadership skills.


I'm a huge Nimoy fan, I like everything he did, that's why I didn't want to see his Spock in Abrams' weak version Of Star Trek, his Spock was the best thing about that movie.Spock was an insight to humanity, he had emotions but it was in control, he question human weakness actions, he was a mystery but always cool, I think Nu Spock is nothing like that.


Greatness comes to those who really want to do anything to get it.

stovokor2000-A

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2001

Report this Mar. 05 2013, 6:00 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 05 2013, 5:17 pm

>Scotty HELP Uhura to work out a plan she Spoke it remember ?


yes, but it wasnt HER plan to get the books and trey to speask the language.


if there was a NEED to speak the language Uhura could figer it out,


there was a NEED for most of her career, and she never learned it.She was incompetent.


 


if her memory was wiped clean and she was re-educated surely she would know  klingon if it was a need for it.


 


The proof is in the pudding, obviously there was a need.The fact that she never learned is evidence of her lack of skills at her job.


And for the record, the Klingons Started using their language in Star Trek-The Motion Picture Not in The Search For Spock. 


thanks for the correction, but that actully makes my argument stronger.


She should hane known the language back in TOS, she had about 30 years to learn it between the events of "The Motion Picture" and "The Undiscovered Country" and still she never learned it.


Who said the Romulans were using another Language in the Romulan/Earth War ? they never saw each other ?


They were useing their own language, it was mentioned.


The Crew in "the Wrath Of Khan" were cadet "Trainees". the Enterprise wasn't even on Duty,


the minetue it left space doc it was on duty.


Did you even pay attention to trhe films.


In TWoK the ship was on a trainig cruise, but an emergancy situation developed at space lab Regula 1. Being the only ship in the sector the Enterprise and the crew were forsced into full active service.,


in Abrams movie ,Starfleets primary fleet was engaged in fighting in a different system.The Enterprise was only scheduled for a a trainig cruise with Pike and his class of cadet "TRAINNES", but an emergancy situation developed  at planet Vulcan, forsing Starfleet to activate the entire core of cadets into full service to launch a training mission.


Similar situations bud.


where are the adults or experience crew is ? Pike is the oldest Starfleet member in the entire movie that I saw, and the first sign of trouble he got scared and gives up the ship to Spock and Kirk, why ? .


We did see other starfleet officers, Pike was rightfully worried, Thge narada had just tsken out all the starfleet ships that arrived first, Vulcans planetary defencives, and 22 klingon ships a few dasys before.


Pike knew they were in deep shit


Picard was a bridge officer when took command,


yes, flight controler,[I remember Westlky doing that job] and Picard was new to the job as well.


the rest of his bio was written later in the serries, so you can call it a retcon or say that it conflicts.Either way, it was originally intended that Picard made captain very young and skipped a few ranks.


I'm a huge Nimoy fan, I like everything he did, that's why I didn't want to see his Spock in Abrams' weak version Of Star Trek, his Spock was the best thing about that movie.Spock was an insight to humanity, he had emotions but it was in control, he question human weakness actions, he was a mystery but always cool, I think Nu Spock is nothing like that.


old Spock was nothing like that at the begining either, he grew into that role in all the years.


Nu Spock is just strating out, and hes not far from the apple tree at this point.


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fireproof78

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Report this Mar. 05 2013, 8:51 pm

Quote: He'sDeadJim6400 @ Mar. 05 2013, 4:42 pm

>First, I am a huge Nimoy fan, I love what he created in Spock, we all have our personal feelings on Abrams'  movie, I just felt Nimoys Spock was out of place in the movie and the red matter / time travel stuff was silly..I see what you're saying, fireproof, but you will recall how TOS Spock was always an outsider in contrast to Human's he was still learning why and how they use their emotions, in the new movie Abrams Spock shows some of this but to throw himself into a human female so quickly in my opinion he wasn't really acting Vulcan.. 

>


No offense but if you see my point, you keep seeming to miss the spirit of what I am saying.


How should Vulcans act? I illustrate numerous moments were Spock showed emotions, especially as it regards his mother. If Spock was so devoid of emotion why did he need to go through Kholinar ceremony to purge himself of emotions? Vulcans are not devoid of emotion-TOS illustrates that on multiple occasions. Nimoy always offered subtle hints of humor behind his performance, not devoid of emotion. If you get the chance, read Nimoy's book "I am Spock" to see the different ideas he brought to Spock.


Also, if Vulcans shouldn't go for human females, why did Sarek marry not one but TWO humans? I think it was well established that Uhura and Spock had a relationship and it wasn't some lustful tryst. So, why wouldn't she want to care for him in his time of need, and he was struggling with his emotional control. I take it Vulcans are supposed to just endure hardship without help? Even T'Pol relied upon Trip in a crisis.


How is Red Matter any sillier than dilithium or the time travel stuff sillier than the slingshot maneuver? Because we have never seen it before? We never saw the Omega molecule until Voyager, nanoprobes until TNG, or Romulan ale until the Movies. We have seen artificial singularities before, as well as time travel, so both are within the rules of the world.


Again, it comes down to personal preference, but I put a lot of stake in Nimoy's judgement. He doesn't need to act anymore, but he choose too in this movie. For me, that speaks a lot for Abrams and his vision.

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