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Timeline Mind Screw.

Somniac

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POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 1:52 am

Here's one:


If Vulcan was destroyed in the nu timeline, how would Spock have managed to get the resources, not to mention tech to build his ship to travel in time?


When Nero (terrible name) destroyed Vulcan, shouldn't Spocks ship have disappeared in a puff of logic?


 


If this has been discussed can someone please point me to the thread?


What other people think of you is none of your business.

Somniac

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POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 4:27 am

Haha! Good ones.


I like number 3 too although number 4 appeals also.

OtakuJo

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Report this Dec. 10 2012, 4:49 am

I believe the problem you have just raised is a classic example of cause and effect in time travel, as described in the "Grandfather Paradox". Unless of course, we assume that Spock's ship was not made with only Vulcan resources -- but also Federation. Remembering of course that there is also a small population of Vulcan survivors in the 23rd century JJ-verse.


Most compelling perhaps is the comment from O'Brien(s) in the episode Visionary -- which goes something like "I hate Temporal Mechanics"... and let's just leave it at that. You'll find when people get too far into the whys and wherefores of time travel paradoxes, it just turns into a lot of "Blah Blah Blah..."


Although of course the apparent hypothetical solution to the Grandfather Paradox is that of alternate universes. Importantly oldSpock's memory remains with those experiences he has had (with Kirk as captain etc) in the prime Star Trek timeline.


_______________


In short it boils down to two things:


1. This is an alternate timeline where Spock and his ship are unaffected by Nero's (Aggripina would not be happy with you for hating on the name!) changes.


2. Even in the JJ-verse, Vulcan culture still exists -- if barely. But the Federation is centuries old and the ship (Jellyfish haha) might not be entirely Vulcan anyway. Certainly with industrial strength replicators they wouldn't even need to mine a planet that much for the parts.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

stoffershorty

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POSTS: 1

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 7:08 am

In my opinion, anything pseudo-Star-Trek by JJ Abrams shouldn't be considered as Star Trek at all. He is just trying to cash in on a well-known (and loved) franchise, ignore all of Roddenberry's ideals, and produce action-heavy, dialogue-light films. Even the last TNG film ("Nemesis") strayed away from the original premise of Star Trek, for my liking.


Hopefully one of the modern networks will wake up and realise that good TV doesn't just mean making lots of money but rather pleasing a large fan-base and good story-telling. That way we will be in with a chance of seeing a new Star Trek series on TV again.


Live long & prosper - the Vulcans certainly are in the REAL world!

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 7:42 am

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 10 2012, 1:52 am

>

>Here's one:

>If Vulcan was destroyed in the nu timeline, how would Spock have managed to get the resources, not to mention tech to build his ship to travel in time?

>When Nero (terrible name) destroyed Vulcan, shouldn't Spocks ship have disappeared in a puff of logic?

>If this has been discussed can someone please point me to the thread?

>


Mainly because the new timeline is an alternate universe. It doesn't overwrite the regular timeline, it runs parallel.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 9:58 am

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 10 2012, 1:52 am

>

>Here's one:

>If Vulcan was destroyed in the nu timeline, how would Spock have managed to get the resources, not to mention tech to build his ship to travel in time?

>When Nero (terrible name) destroyed Vulcan, shouldn't Spocks ship have disappeared in a puff of logic?

>If this has been discussed can someone please point me to the thread?

>


The Vulcan destroyed in the nu timeline is not the Vulcan in the prime timeline. The universes (universii?) diverged when Nero and Spock Prime were thrown into the wormhole and sent back in "time". We know this is the case because in the prime universe, in the future, Vulcan exists but Romulus is destroyed by a supernova. Also, in the prime universe Kirk knew and was raised by his father. Prime Spock spoke (alliteration lol) of prime Kirk's loving relationship with his father to nuKirk in the cave scene.


Furthermore, prime Spock's ship, the Jellyfish (a WTF name because why would a Vulcan ship be named after a Terran animal?) wasn't built for time travel. It was a ship built in a "future", with a well and fine Vulcan, for speed and it contained red matter.


The time travel was a consequence of the red matter creating a sigularity/wormhole (some more WTF science BS, but whatever) that captured prime Spock and the Narada in its wake. Spock was trying to save Romulus but its star went supernova before he could reach it and he released the red matter to keep the supernova from doing anymore damage.


IMO, the bigger question is not about the alternate universes (universii?)but why the flip Nero and his crew didn't try and save their people in the new universe? I'm assuming the nu universe Romulan government is just as janky as the prime universe Romulan government that waited until the last minute to evacuate/ask for assistance for Romulus before its star went supernova.


Someone ANSWER that question, please!


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 10:29 am

the Jellyfish (a WTF name because why would a Vulcan ship be named after a Terran animal?)


Maybe there are Jellyfish on Vulcan.


IMO, the bigger question is not about the alternate universes (universii?)but why the flip Nero and his crew didn't try and save their people in the new universe?


Who says they didn't?


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 10:49 am

Quote: Mitchz95 @ Dec. 10 2012, 10:29 am

>

>the Jellyfish (a WTF name because why would a Vulcan ship be named after a Terran animal?)

>Maybe there are Jellyfish on Vulcan.

>IMO, the bigger question is not about the alternate universes (universii?)but why the flip Nero and his crew didn't try and save their people in the new universe?

>Who says they didn't?

>


1. Even if there are jellyfish on Vulcan, I doubt they are called "jellyfish" on Vulcan.


2. Perhaps Nero found the time to swing past Romulus while in the midst of plotting Vulcan's demise. LOL


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 11:10 am

1. Even if there are jellyfish on Vulcan, I doubt they are called "jellyfish" on Vulcan.


We already have Vulcan marsupial and Vulcan sandworm. Why not a Vulcan jellyfish?


2. Perhaps Nero found the time to swing past Romulus while in the midst of plotting Vulcan's demise. LOL


He did have 25 years.


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

Somniac

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POSTS: 462

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 2:00 pm

Hmm.


None the wiser. 

wissa

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Report this Dec. 10 2012, 3:22 pm

Quote: stoffershorty @ Dec. 10 2012, 7:08 am

>

>In my opinion, anything pseudo-Star-Trek by JJ Abrams shouldn't be considered as Star Trek at all. He is just trying to cash in on a well-known (and loved) franchise, ignore all of Roddenberry's ideals, and produce action-heavy, dialogue-light films. Even the last TNG film ("Nemesis") strayed away from the original premise of Star Trek, for my liking.

>Hopefully one of the modern networks will wake up and realise that good TV doesn't just mean making lots of money but rather pleasing a large fan-base and good story-telling. That way we will be in with a chance of seeing a new Star Trek series on TV again.

>Live long & prosper - the Vulcans certainly are in the REAL world!

>


that's crazy talk.  It wasn't his idea to do a movie, he was hired to do an already planned movie. 


 


btw, Roddenberry's motivation was making money just as much as any other person in hollywood.  And every series and movie were expected to make money as well.  No one is making tv shows for solely the sake of art.  They all have to pay the actors, the tech people, the camera people and the investors. 


 


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Treknoir

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POSTS: 1784

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 5:06 pm

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 10 2012, 2:00 pm

>

>Hmm.

>None the wiser. 

>


 


I think you're being purposely obtuse.


It is curious how often you humans manage to obtain that which you do not want. - Spock

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 5:51 pm

Quote: Treknoir @ Dec. 10 2012, 5:06 pm

Quote: Somniac @ Dec. 10 2012, 2:00 pm

>

>

>Hmm.

>None the wiser. 

>

 

I think you're being purposely obtuse.


You can count on it. 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

kittyrockedyourworld

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Report this Dec. 10 2012, 8:46 pm

Spock should not exist unless the timeline eventually get fixed, else he would not be protected from the effect of an altered reality. Even in First Contact, though temporarily protected by a field that keeps the Next Gen characters out of the space time loop effect of not existing, it would eventually have to be corrected.  I base this logic on on the episode Yesterday's Enterprise" (Stardate: 43625.2) -  3rd season of Star Trek: The Next Generation. In this episode a temporal disturbance results in the ship named Enterprise-C emerging 22 years into the future, thereby altering time.


Based on these observations we simply must wait until the writers decide to fix the timeline or for those of us who are more impatient, do the Ferengi method of buying enough shares to have a significant influence (potentially) in the script or get to know someone who knows someone that has influence over these writers.



 

wissa

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POSTS: 4031

Report this Dec. 10 2012, 9:04 pm

except they clearly say it's an alternate time line in the movie not the same time line.

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