ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

What's the best and worst Original Series movie and what's the best and worst Next Generation movie?

aria.cummings

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6

Report this Nov. 11 2012, 9:31 pm

For me, the best Original Series film is definitely Wrath of Khan, but my personal favorite Original Series film is The Voyage Home because the plot was good enough for non-Star Trek fans to enjoy which is good. The worst Original Series film is definitely The Final Frontier because the Uhura fan-dance scene was just horrendous and the whole plot was just terrible and it felt like a big mess. The best Next Generation film, for me, is First Contact because I loved the scenes with Picard and Lily and finding out who the real Zefram Cochrane was was just a great idea and the space battle was just fantastic.  The worst TNG film is definitelt Generations because of Data's emotion chip being part of the plot, having the Duras sisters being secondary villains, and Kirk's extremely undignified death. Seriously, he deserved better than that and in my opinion, he should have had a service like the one Spock had in Wrath of Khan. Still, these are just my opinions, so let me know what you think are the best and worst TOS and TNG films.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 12 2012, 5:26 am

For me, the TOS question is very difficult to answer, because those movies are all quite entertaining and each has a special place in my heart. But, if I had to "rack and stack 'em" it would look like this:


1. The Wrath of Khan


2. The Search for Spock


3. The Motion Picture


4. The Final Frontier


5. The Undiscovered Country


6. The Voyage Home


I think TWOK and TSFS are the best for one simple reason: The remind me most of the best of the TOS episodes. They took themselves seriously as major motion pictures, but still had the charm and wit and fun of the series. There was adventure, action, humor...but also sacrifice, loss, and deep themes about friendship and change. Shatner's best acting performances were in these two films as well.


On the flip side, TVH is my least-favorite, but it is still a great movie. I just didn't like it as much because it has less re-watch value for me. But, otherwise, these are all enjoyable films.


 


For TNG, it's a little easier because the "least favorite" was really quite bad, and the "most favorite" was really quite good.


 


1. First Contact


2. Nemesis


3. Generations


4. Insurrection


So, I think it goes without saying that First Contact is the crown jewel of the TNG film series. It (along with Nemesis, which had a weaker script) actually felt like a major motion picture, and not like an expanded mediocre episode. It made clever use of time travel (ie: not doing the cliche of coming back to "our time," but going back for the crew yet still in OUR future), and it balanced 2 very interesting stories effectively.


Insurrection, on the other hand, is far-and-away the worst film in the entire franchise. They aimed for mediocrity and ended up far south of even THAT. At least Generations and Nemesis attempted bold things and tried to be epic. Insurrection strived to be a fun little tale, and instead ended up being a multi-million dollar film that wouldn't have been a very good 1-hour television episode. Honestly, think about it: would Insurrection have made anyone's list as a top 20 TNG episode? I can't imagine how it could. So..yeah...it's the only movie of the entire franchise I actually don't like. 

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Nov. 12 2012, 3:57 pm

I can tell you that my favourites of each of those are First Contact and The Voyage Home.


I don't know if that constitutes the "best", per se -- these are just the ones I enjoy the most.


As for worst... none really sticks out as particularly bad.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Nov. 12 2012, 6:23 pm

I have very unusual answers. I think I'm the exact opposite of most fans. The Final Frontier is my favorite TOS film and Insurrection is my favorite TNG film, and my favorite of all 10 movies.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 13 2012, 9:42 am

Quote: Sora @ Nov. 12 2012, 6:23 pm

>

>I have very unusual answers. I think I'm the exact opposite of most fans. The Final Frontier is my favorite TOS film and Insurrection is my favorite TNG film, and my favorite of all 10 movies.

>


 


I can actually understand TFF more than I can understand Insurrection. TFF was my favorite for a brief while, particularly when I was younger. I still tend to view that film with much fondness, for all it's failed glory.


But Insurrection failed to entertain me from moment one...and I LOVE Star Trek.


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Nov. 13 2012, 5:37 pm

Well the reason why I really love The Final Frontier, is because I really love the whole Kirk, Spock, Mccoy dynamic in the film. I feel that while maybe the A plot was a bit silly, the relationships were amazing, and it was a very character driven film. I feel like we got more character development in The Final Frontier than any other TOS film.


Now the reason why I really like Insurrection is because, I personally really enjoy it when Trek does politics, and moral stories, and Insurrection was some of both. And I absolutely love DS9 and Voyager, and I love how Insurrection adopted some of the Intrepid class Federation design, as well as Worf being there, and mentions of the Dominion and Worf being on DS9, just overall makes Star Trek feel that much bigger and vast to me. So I enjoyed the story and smaller details. And I loved seeing Riker beardless again. I thought it was great. Insurrection also felt like a character driven film to me. Whereas First Contact and Nemesis were both more action which is great! And Generations was more passing the torch from TOS to TNG, which was also great. I just enjoy Insurrection.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Nov. 14 2012, 3:33 am

Quote: Sora @ Nov. 13 2012, 5:37 pm

>

>Well the reason why I really love The Final Frontier, is because I really love the whole Kirk, Spock, Mccoy dynamic in the film.

>


That is one of its strengths. Forgive me if I'm thinking of the wrong movie -- but that campfire scene was classic!



Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 14 2012, 5:49 am

Quote: Sora @ Nov. 13 2012, 5:37 pm

>

>Well the reason why I really love The Final Frontier, is because I really love the whole Kirk, Spock, Mccoy dynamic in the film. I feel that while maybe the A plot was a bit silly, the relationships were amazing, and it was a very character driven film. I feel like we got more character development in The Final Frontier than any other TOS film.

>Now the reason why I really like Insurrection is because, I personally really enjoy it when Trek does politics, and moral stories, and Insurrection was some of both. And I absolutely love DS9 and Voyager, and I love how Insurrection adopted some of the Intrepid class Federation design, as well as Worf being there, and mentions of the Dominion and Worf being on DS9, just overall makes Star Trek feel that much bigger and vast to me. So I enjoyed the story and smaller details. And I loved seeing Riker beardless again. I thought it was great. Insurrection also felt like a character driven film to me. Whereas First Contact and Nemesis were both more action which is great! And Generations was more passing the torch from TOS to TNG, which was also great. I just enjoy Insurrection.

>


 


See, I disagree completely about Insurrection. You can't make up for a wattered-down story by throwing meaningless and shallow nods to continuity at fans. Ok, great...they mentioned the Dominion War and threw back to Riker without a beard. That is cute for those brief moments, but it doesn't make up for everything that was sloppy, sleepy, and dull about the story.


I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you mention "Intrepid-class design." Where was THAT in the movie? The only Federation starship featured in the film was the Enterprise herself, and since she made her debut in "First Contact," I'm not sure you can hang your hat on that being a positive in "Insurrection." In fact, I'm quite sure you can't. And, aside from the lack of "neck" between the primary and secondary hulls, I find nothing to compare the beautiful, sleek, powerful lines of the Sovereign-class starship to the clunky, uninspiring, generic looking Intrepid-class.


The other point I'd argue is that Insurrection was NOT a character driven film at all. I think it wanted to be, and it tried to force some moments that might trick people into thinking it was...but it was really not. In fact, there was no "character development" at all in the film. You could argue that every other TNG film had development of the characters.


-GEN:


Data's Emotion Chip


Picard facing his own mortality / dealing with family deaths


FC:


Data struggling with temptation


Picard putting his "Best of Both Worlds" nightmare to rest


NEM:


Riker and Troi married and moving on


Picard facing his own dark side, and his failure to save Shinzon


The crew moving on


Data's death


Meanwhile in "Insurrection" you had Picard dancing a mambo, Data playing in haystacks, and Worf getting zits and singing. There was no "forward movement" in Insurrection. No changes. No revelations. No nothing. Just silliness and forced moments. The closest thing to a "real character moment" was Geordi getting his real vision back...and even that was temporary.


 


One-liners about other events in the Star Trek universe are cheap, and don't make the story more "epic." Having a good, engaging, thoughtful script is what makes the story great. If I wanted lame  throw-away Star Trek references from DS9 and VOY to squee at like a fanboy, I need only play Star Trek Online for 45 minutes.


This wasn't "Star Trek does politics." The Undiscovered Country was "Star Trek does politics." A few throw-away lines about the Federation Council and our unlikely relationship with the So'na (again) does NOT constitute a well-structured political drama. It's a cheap way to try to make a small, insignificant story appear more broad in scope.


This was a disaster of a story from the get-go. The writers made a bad decision to counter-act the drama and intensity of the first two films and try to go with something smaller and "lighter." So, and I'm sure they didn't think of it this way when they were writing the script, but they set the goal of being mediocre! And, as I mentioned earlier, they actually came up short to that. The original concept was more built around "Heart of Darkness" with Data in the Kurtz role. They steered away from that, in the spirit of "watering it down," though...and only went with that thought for the first 5 minutes of the film. Essentially, this movie suffered from having "too many fingers in the pie" and became a forced, insincere mish-mash of nothing. Stewart wanted Picard to have a love interest, Frakes wanted Riker and Troi to flirt. Piller wanted "Heart of Darkness." Berman wanted "light and fluffy." Spiner wanted to sing showtunes. So, they tried to make everyone happy and the result was a crappy movie with no clear mood or direction forward.  


Don't get me wrong, it's still better than half of the movies that get released on a regular basis, and it don't dispise it with every fiber of my being...but it is a sad missed opportunity, and a horrific waste of a major motion picture. Again, the base argument is that if this same story had been produced as a 1-hour episode of the television series, it STILL would not have been considered a top-20 episode. And it was a major motion picture. That's inexcusable.  


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Blockman

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 520

Report this Nov. 14 2012, 7:50 am

Quote: Vger23 @ Nov. 14 2012, 8:49 am


"Don't get me wrong, it's still better than half of the movies that get released on a regular basis, and I don't dispise it with every fiber of my being"


 


---------------


 


lol. It kinda sounds like you do!


 


Anyways, lots of good points, but I'd hate to hear what you think of a really bad movie! : )


 


Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 14 2012, 9:23 am

Quote: Blockman @ Nov. 14 2012, 7:50 am

>

>Quote: Vger23 @ Nov. 14 2012, 8:49 am

>"Don't get me wrong, it's still better than half of the movies that get released on a regular basis, and I don't dispise it with every fiber of my being"

>---------------

>lol. It kinda sounds like you do!

>Anyways, lots of good points, but I'd hate to hear what you think of a really bad movie! : )

>


 


No, I honestly don't! I own the DVD and the Blu-Ray, and I will watch it on occasion.


I think one of the main reasons for my distaste of the film is that it represents to me, in a microcosm, everything that started to irritate me about the franchise in general at that time, and everything that was bad about TNG (NOT saying TNG on the whole was "bad..." just saying that Insurrection contained in spades all of the things that WERE "bad" about an otherwise very good show).


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Nov. 14 2012, 1:25 pm

Vger you definitely make some strong points, and I mean I can understand why you feel that way, and it makes sense.


But like I also understand why alot of people think The Final Frontier is the bad film, I also get why people think Insurrection is a bad film.


I mean I'm perfectly willing to entertain the notion that Insurrection is the weakest of the TNG films, I just simply enjoy it.


I totally understand why most fans really don't like Insurrection. I completely understand why some people say it's boring. It's a shame because First Contact is usually the only TNG film that ever really gets all that much recognition. Because Generations and Nemesis are not usually all that well liked either.


I just view these things as one of the great things about Star Trek is that because it's so large, there's something in it for everyone.

Vger23

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 6799

Report this Nov. 14 2012, 7:24 pm

Quote: Sora @ Nov. 14 2012, 1:25 pm

>

>Vger you definitely make some strong points, and I mean I can understand why you feel that way, and it makes sense.

>But like I also understand why alot of people think The Final Frontier is the bad film, I also get why people think Insurrection is a bad film.

>I mean I'm perfectly willing to entertain the notion that Insurrection is the weakest of the TNG films, I just simply enjoy it.

>I totally understand why most fans really don't like Insurrection. I completely understand why some people say it's boring. It's a shame because First Contact is usually the only TNG film that ever really gets all that much recognition. Because Generations and Nemesis are not usually all that well liked either.

>I just view these things as one of the great things about Star Trek is that because it's so large, there's something in it for everyone.

>


 


Now THAT is a sentiment I agree with and respect 100%!


Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. My two least-liked TOS movies are The Undiscovered Country and The Voyage Home. So, I have some unpopular views myself. 


But, Trek is about diversity above alL, I believe. And thefranchise is indeed big enough for everyone's tastes. 


I AM KEE-ROCK!!

Zastrin

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 5

Report this Nov. 15 2012, 5:47 am

TOS: Star Trek 11


TNG: None that I can think of.  Nemesis?

Sora

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2606

Report this Nov. 16 2012, 9:38 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ Nov. 14 2012, 7:24 pm

Quote: Sora @ Nov. 14 2012, 1:25 pm

>

>

>Vger you definitely make some strong points, and I mean I can understand why you feel that way, and it makes sense.

>But like I also understand why alot of people think The Final Frontier is the bad film, I also get why people think Insurrection is a bad film.

>I mean I'm perfectly willing to entertain the notion that Insurrection is the weakest of the TNG films, I just simply enjoy it.

>I totally understand why most fans really don't like Insurrection. I completely understand why some people say it's boring. It's a shame because First Contact is usually the only TNG film that ever really gets all that much recognition. Because Generations and Nemesis are not usually all that well liked either.

>I just view these things as one of the great things about Star Trek is that because it's so large, there's something in it for everyone.

>

 

Now THAT is a sentiment I agree with and respect 100%!

Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't understand. My two least-liked TOS movies are The Undiscovered Country and The Voyage Home. So, I have some unpopular views myself. 

But, Trek is about diversity above alL, I believe. And thefranchise is indeed big enough for everyone's tastes. 


 


Well I just have to say thank you for being so respectful. So many fans get into so many arguments over what's good and what's not, and I'm glad to see that there are some fans who are still open minded and can have a civil conversation about everything.


Live Long and Prosper

kayverse

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 13

Report this Dec. 28 2012, 3:55 pm

I've only seen the TOS movies so I can only post an opinion on that.


The best movie in my opinion was Wrath of Khan but my personal favourite is a tie between Search for Spock and the Voyage Home.


The worst (and I thought all the movies were good so this is like a really good worst if that makes sense) was the Motion Picture, in my opinion. Perhaps I don't have enough patience but it just felt like it went on and on and on. Just my opinion :3

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum