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End game - What just happened?

MrsWiley

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POSTS: 15

Report this Dec. 01 2012, 10:41 pm

Endgame was a good ending IMO....BUT the thing that irked me was the Chakotay/Seven relationship coming out of nowhere! That was definitely rushed....he went from wanting to throw her out an air lock to love? WTF?!


"There's coffee in that nebula"

medic_gurl

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POSTS: 6

Report this Dec. 02 2012, 9:47 am

I absolutely agree with that. Chakotay was the one who was saying "You can take the Borg out of the collective, but you can't take the collective out of the Borg." He was the one that distrusted Seven the most and like you said, wanted to throw her out an airlock. And she did experiment with the Chakotay figure, in the holodeck and it was not an ideal match.


But then all of a sudden they're involved. Not just involved but apprently pretty seriously. A little buildup would have been better. That and actual chemistry between the two of them. Seven and the Doctor, obvious chemistry. And if you want to go there, Seven and Janeway . . . but that is a different discussion.


MrsWiley

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Report this Dec. 02 2012, 8:36 pm

Yeah, Seven and The Doctor would have made more sense....Definite subtext between Janeway and Seven for sure though    Really anyone would have made more sense than Chakotay! *Angry fist shake*


 


 


"There's coffee in that nebula"

Sehlat123

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POSTS: 496

Report this Dec. 03 2012, 2:52 pm

Yeah, I thought endgame was a good ending, but WAY to sudden. It would have been better if they had learned from DS9 and built up to it, or at least have a theme to the last episodes. As said before, there was Nothing to build up to Chakotay and Seven; even a Troi/Worf build up would have been better.


When Admiral Janeway came, it was basically just another day. There was no building up to it. It would have been better if they had started with new bad guys,  since they were out of kazon and Vidiian and maylon space.


It would have been so much better if they had put some thought into it before ending the run.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

Sehlat123

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POSTS: 496

Report this Dec. 03 2012, 2:53 pm

Yeah, I thought endgame was a good ending, but WAY to sudden. It would have been better if they had learned from DS9 and built up to it, or at least have a theme to the last episodes. As said before, there was Nothing to build up to Chakotay and Seven; even a Troi/Worf build up would have been better.


When Admiral Janeway came, it was basically just another day. There was no building up to it. It would have been better if they had started with new bad guys,  since they were out of kazon and Vidiian and maylon space.


It would have been so much better if they had put some thought into it before ending the run.


"Borg. Sounds Swedish."

God in an Alcove

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POSTS: 43

Report this Dec. 06 2012, 4:42 pm

- 1) The Federation in the future had shipwise great advantages. Shield plating. But the klingon had nothing of any?


Some species develop technologies more quickly than others. For example, the Romulans developed cloaking technology while the Federation considered it only theoretical.


Also, the hull plating Admiral Janeway used was little more than an advanced form of ablative hull armor which we know had already been used on the USS Defiant and the USS Promethius. It is also suggested that Admiral Janeway had helped develop it on Voyager itself prior to returning to Earth in her original timeline.


- 2) Voyager has absolutely no problem adding shield plating to the ship? In fact, it's done in only a couple of moments, even in the onscreen timespan. 


Both Voyager and Admiral Janeway's future tech were both distinctly Starfleet in design. Why wouldn't it be easy?


As for how long it took, it was never specified. Just because the scene went from approval to in the process of installation doesn't mean it took "only a couple of moments." Case in point, at that time it had been only 30 minutes or so on-screen since Captain Janeway had ordered Voyager away from the Borg nebula, but dialog states that it had been three days since. Also, during the upgrades we hear Janeway's personal log, in which she gives a new stardate. This indicates that some time had passed.



- 3) If the borg has so many hubs, why not sending an entire fleet to every corner of the galaxy and conquer it in only a matter of days?


Six hubs isn't that many. And the Borg simply did not have enough ships.



- 4) With the Borgqueen falling apart, the entire unicomplex explodes. Does it means the Borg has been defeated forever?


No.


QUEEN: You've infected us with an neurolytic pathogen.
ADMIRAL: Just enough to bring chaos to order.


In other words, not enough to destroy the Borg altogether.



- 5) Tom Paris sees his father live for the first time in 7 years on a huge screen in front him and both men show absolutely no emotions...?


Admiral Paris looked happy. Tom looked to have mixed emotions.



- 6) Deep Space 9 had the best ending of any series I 've ever seen, considering the last 10 episodes they needed to give closure to everything and anything. Why Voyager only 2?


DS9 was planned, not to mention that they were also wrapping a multi-season arc, whereas Voyager had no such arc. Although I think "Endgame" should've been stretched into three episodes.

medic_gurl

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Report this Dec. 06 2012, 6:26 pm

I agree with you. Endgame would have been better if it had been stretched out over at least 2 episodes. I would have really enjoyed seeing a little of the return home. How Seven dealt with Earth and her celebrity status, what happened with the former Maquis members, and so much more.


DS9 has always been my favorite series. I enjoyed the ending, they wrapped up all the pertinent storylines, staying true to the characters. And yet they left room for more(hint - DS9 movie!) I did not care for the fact that in Worf's memories of the station, no mention of Jadzia. Come on, he got married, that was huge for him. (I understand there were production issues with that, but still.)


 


 "A Klingon does not postpone a atter of honor."

bfjl86

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Report this Dec. 09 2012, 1:32 pm

- 4) With the Borgqueen falling apart, the entire unicomplex explodes. Does it means the Borg has been defeated forever?




It is explained in Star Trek: Voyager Homecoming and The Farther Shore that there is a "Royal Protocol" that the borg have that segregates a few ships and a single borg on each of those few ships with ascending rank that take over if a major blow has been dealt to the borg and the queen infects the rest of the borg then those few ships are left as they were and are tasked with rebuilding the borg with the newly preselected queen. In Dark Frontier the queen comes to 7 of 9 and tells her she is special and that she was part of a borg experiement. Supposedly she also was one of the "Royal Protocol" Drones and that's why she was used as she was for the special mission AND the Liason for Voyager to begin with.

jonathan.polacek

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POSTS: 27

Report this Dec. 17 2012, 2:37 pm

1) The Klingons in this episode seemed to me that they were scavengers and scientist for hire. I bet they could not get the new top of the lines BPs because they could not get the council to give them new ones.


2)Probably, the technology was adapted from the borg to help fix up ships and shuttles quickly because in the future technology is probably being shared more often then seen in Voyager or any other Star Trek show.

And0rianPhil0s0pher

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Report this Jan. 01 2013, 7:41 am

 I love Voyager, which is one of the reasons that Endgame depresses me greatly. Everything about this ending is rushed. Over 7 years the writers ha developed some wonderful relationships between characters, but the finale leaves us with the idiotic pairing of Seven with Chikotay; a pairing that betrays the personalities of both characters. I also find it difficult to accept that Janeway would betray Federation regulations to this extreme degree. Better to have gracefully ended the series with the crew in he Delta Quadrant than this tangled mess.

jrowebb

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Report this Jan. 01 2013, 8:05 am

I agree. Janeway has always held Starfleet regulations in a huge regard and I thought that breaking such a protocol would taint her personal principles. It was bad enough that this series made the Borg look like wimps in their own galaxy, but they (Voyager) practically went thru them with little or no problem at all.

D. Cottingham

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Report this Jan. 01 2013, 8:32 am

I would have liked to seen at least one episode of Voyager after they made it home to close up loose ends.

starlisa

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Report this Jan. 06 2013, 7:00 pm

Quote: And0rianPhil0s0pher @ Jan. 01 2013, 7:41 am

>

> I love Voyager, which is one of the reasons that Endgame depresses me greatly. Everything about this ending is rushed. Over 7 years the writers ha developed some wonderful relationships between characters, but the finale leaves us with the idiotic pairing of Seven with Chikotay; a pairing that betrays the personalities of both characters. I also find it difficult to accept that Janeway would betray Federation regulations to this extreme degree. Better to have gracefully ended the series with the crew in he Delta Quadrant than this tangled mess.

>


I completely agree. I love Voyager too, it's my favorite show of all time, but I really don't like the ending. One of the things I loved most about Voyager was the Janeway/Chakotay relationship, but then out of nowhere comes this adolescent Chakotay/Seven romance, and the series ends without any scene of note between Janeway/Chakotay. All those years together, all the battles, all the sacrifices and struggles, all the buried romantic feelings and bond of deep friendship, yet it's Seven we're told he can't live without and who he wants to be within transporter range of? I totally don't get it, I really don't. The finale was definitely rushed and it's such a shame because Voyager is an awesome show.

Capt William Brewster

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POSTS: 27

Report this Jan. 08 2013, 2:14 pm

Hello Decepticon 2203, I am abit new around the edges with this Star Trek website but I am a Star Trek Geek about the show, I liked Star Trek Voyager but also Star Trek Deep Space 9, perhaps I can answer a few of your questions.   I had also seen the Endgame 2parter episode several times. and got a bit of a handle on it.


1) The Federation yes indeed had great advantages but only due to what the Voyager Crew was able to transmitt to them.   The Klingons were more than happy to let Star Fleet have those advantages but I suspect the Klingons were developing their own ways of dealing with the Borg with what 7/9 was letting Captain Janeway send to the Federation with her "phonehome" calls as infrequent as they were.   The Voyager could add shields carefully because it was intergrated with Borg Technology etc.   realistically it took a few weeks to get the shield plating-shielding working on the hull according to the timelag between episodes.   I had the Star Trek Armada game on my computer for awhile and the Klingons in that game were even experimenting with Transwarp Hubs to go to the Delta Quadrant and feud with the Borg.   The Klingons were also making Transwarp Hub Stealth Bases that the Borg would miss if they scanned the wrong way.


2) Yes they do or seem able to but with 7/9's help and Velana Tores in Engineering, Miss Maquios Knowitall and brass mouthed iron klingon-human lady whom was not going to let anyone in the Federation Engineering outdo her at her own game.


3) The problem with alot of Transwarp Hubs is, I believe the simple fact you have to know at what Transwarp Hub your Federation Prey is.   From Deepspace 9 it still is an 70,000 Lightyear journey and I think you have to know when your transwarp Hub Tingles weither it is simply some alien species accidently touching the Hub Web or if it is the Starship Voyager bumping into the Transwarp Hub exit and enterance.   There is still the normal ".....is that Voyager knocking on our Transwarp Hub Door?" feeling or if it is not.   For instance in Star Trek: Voyager, you could have a fleet of 570 Cube and Sphereships as the Borg Fleet but only 6 or 12 of them waiting at certain Transwarp Hubs waiting to get the Borg Queen's mental message that the Voyager was about to enter a hub.


4) I agree while we saw the UniComplex destroy itself with the Borg Queen herself poisoned by the Old Admiral Janeway, like the others saying themselves there is no reason to think that killing a single Borg Queen at one UniComplex will destroy all the other UniComplexes.   I think in the Generations Movie Captain Picard still thought the Borg would revive itself after a time.   But for now atleast the Federation and Picard himself was content to allow nature and timelines take it's course to the future.   Captain Janeway herself was happy enough to have her Futureself give Voyager advantages and like the other crew be amazed that such advantages worked.   But I think personally she would not be too alarmed if such advantages failed.   Decepticon 2203 would you like it more if the Borg managed to blow up the Voyager and come through the Transwarp Hub to Earth and blast the Federation Armada into bits like the Borg did at Wolf 359?


5) Hummmmmmm interesting, well I think the Paris Family is not big on emotions; in communicays to Tom, his father is pleased with his accompishments on the USS Voyager, in private then you would see Tom and his father talk over the good and bad days being stranded 70,000 Lightyears from the Federation space.   I wonder what Tom's father's reactions could be in private at Tom marrying Velanna Tores?   I bet the Paris Admiral might not like a Klingon Woman marrying into the Paris Family so easily if it had been in Federation Space where the marriage took place.


6) WHAAAATTTTT!  You mean Benjamin Sisko left to the Prophets????!!!   Hummmm is it not rather hard for his son and wife to take, of course both accept his decison but we are talking about Captain Benjamin Sisko here; he stops the Founders but is stuck in the Wormhole with no way to Call The Federation.   It might be like anyone of us becomming Q, I think.


Captain William Brewster

belanna4

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Report this Jan. 13 2013, 11:01 am

I agree, Endgame was indeed rushed. I was very fustrated that they just decided to end the series when they really didn't plan it out. I feel that they had too much to wrap up with all the character and probably could have done another season tow wrap it up. One thing I think they should have considered was doing a few episodes after to show what happenedto everyone. Did the Maquis get punished when they got back. There is just so much that I wanted to know.  They books helped wrap the up the loose ends, I feel that the books took to much freedom on what happened to characters though. Didn't really like the books.


 


I have heard the same thing about the borg queen, that there are copies of her and she is replaced when the current queen is killed.

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