ATTENTION: The Boards will be closed permanently on May 28th, 2014. Posting will be disabled on April 28th, 2014. More Info

Wondering about, concerning DS9.

SpockType

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Oct. 06 2012, 6:16 am

Something I've almost always wondered about, concerning the DS9 storyline. In the TNG episode "Journey's End" there's a planet with Native Americans that was in Federation space. With the treaty about the border of Federation and Cardassian space, there were planets ending up on the wrong side of the border. That planet being one. Then there were the Marquis fighting that adjusting.


So, I was wondering how did it actually come about that planet Bajor wasn't in Cardassian space anymore. It could have been because that treaty put it on the Federation side of the border. (Thus e.g. not on the 'wrong' side of the border, but the 'right' side.) Or, that the Bajorans managed to entirely liberate the planet. I doubt if they would have been strong enough. So, it could be mostly due to the treaty.   

Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Oct. 06 2012, 6:30 pm

Bajor was never a part of the Federation, therefore neither the Federation nor the Cardassians had any power over them. The Cardassians left Bajor partly because the Bajoran terrorists were too much to handle, and partly because they'd just fought a war with the Federation, and they could no longer hold their Empire together. This is alluded to in the TNG episodes "The Wounded" and "Ensign Ro".


So really, Bajor isn't on the "right" or "wrong" side of the border, because it's not on either side.


A little OT: it bugs me when the Trek writers forget that space has three dimensions, and they keep going on about borders and boundaries as if the galaxy was a flat plain.

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Oct. 06 2012, 8:17 pm

Quote: Pooneil @ Oct. 06 2012, 6:30 pm

>A little OT: it bugs me when the Trek writers forget that space has three dimensions, and they keep going on about borders and boundaries as if the galaxy was a flat plain.
Not quite - since the Milky Way is more of a wheel than a sphere, the lines depicted are just shorter.


 



SpockType

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 289

Report this Oct. 07 2012, 1:33 am

Remember also that planets in Federation space need not be Federation members. 

Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Oct. 07 2012, 2:48 pm

Quote: SpockType @ Oct. 07 2012, 1:33 am

>

>Remember also that planets in Federation space need not be Federation members. 

>


Right. But with space being as big as it is, the idea that there's a thin line separating the two warring parties just doesn't make any sense. "Federation space" is just that: a lot of empty space. There would be no reason for anyone to claim possession of a big chunk of nothingness, so territory would instead  be defined by planets and solar systems. Again, if space is three dimensional -- and yes, the galaxy is wheel-shaped rather than spherical, but that wheel is still one thousand light years thick -- then it's easily conceivable that the "border" between the UFP and the Cardassians would zig-zag around planets like Bajor, leaving them untouched.

MoppyCGDaniels

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 409

Report this Oct. 07 2012, 2:54 pm

This ep aired before the series DS9 started as it's a good example what happend then in the DMZ. As for Gul Evag he's also an example for the Cardassians likely again in DS9 "The Maquis". I think the TNG ep is probaly ment as the conflict between the Cardassians & the Maquis.


 


Bajor defeated the Cardassians until the Federation preserved peace which Sisko's job was. Although then came the Dominion joined with help of Dukat by the Cardassians.


 


The Bajoran sector isn't Federation teritory so Bajor never was a member. As for TNG it also mentioned the war to the Cardassians with the ep's that are provided. In DS9 this was titled the Borderwars from which the series was based on. Started from TNG the Bajorans played supposely a critical part in that war. Especialy when their teritory was no longer under the Cardassian occupation what the Bajoran resistance managed without Federation help.

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Oct. 10 2012, 6:56 am

Besides which you can still have political boundaries in 3-D.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Pooneil

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 1023

Report this Oct. 10 2012, 7:57 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ Oct. 10 2012, 6:56 am

>

>Besides which you can still have political boundaries in 3-D.

>


Sure. But those boundaries would overlap and wiggle around each other in ways that you can't express on a 2-D map. So the idea that there's a big straight line dividing UFP turf from someone else's neighbourhood is just, as Spock said, two-dimensional thinking. 

miklamar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2152

Report this Oct. 10 2012, 1:47 pm

I wonder:  Do they have beacons, showing the boundaries for the Neutral Zone?  How would you know whether you had accidentally crossed the line or not?


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

OtakuJo

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 16362

Report this Oct. 10 2012, 4:02 pm

I would imagine that the ships computers would come with a digital map and some kind of locational navigation system.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

DS9_FOREVER!

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 200

Report this Oct. 12 2012, 5:46 am

Quote: Pooneil @ Oct. 07 2012, 2:48 pm

Quote: SpockType @ Oct. 07 2012, 1:33 am

>

>

>Remember also that planets in Federation space need not be Federation members. 

>

Right. But with space being as big as it is, the idea that there's a thin line separating the two warring parties just doesn't make any sense. "Federation space" is just that: a lot of empty space. There would be no reason for anyone to claim possession of a big chunk of nothingness, so territory would instead  be defined by planets and solar systems. Again, if space is three dimensional -- and yes, the galaxy is wheel-shaped rather than spherical, but that wheel is still one thousand light years thick -- then it's easily conceivable that the "border" between the UFP and the Cardassians would zig-zag around planets like Bajor, leaving them untouched.


The only real "Border" in Trek was the Neutral zone and the Klingon border (when the Klingons weren't part of the Federation).


I'm sure there are hundred of other planets throughout the alpha quadrent that aren't "anexed by" the bad guys or are members of the Federation.


Agree about the 2-dementional ppoint though. While our Milky Way is a spherical galaxy, there is lots of space "up and down" too.


I just found this great Star Trek MB!!  photo ac1685424929087bf1b7e7e0d734f861.jpg

miklamar

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 2152

Report this Oct. 12 2012, 6:35 am

Tactics in 3-dimensional space are complex.  As OtakuJo says, a ship's navigation system probably tells by 3-d coordinates.  Otherwise, you can tell when another party starts shooting at you.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

DS9_FOREVER!

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 200

Report this Oct. 12 2012, 8:40 am

Quote: miklamar @ Oct. 12 2012, 6:35 am

>

>Tactics in 3-dimensional space are complex.  As OtakuJo says, a ship's navigation system probably tells by 3-d coordinates.  Otherwise, you can tell when another party starts shooting at you.

>


No question, I'm sure it does.


It's the "thinkness" of the galaxy is what's usually left out of the "geography".


I just found this great Star Trek MB!!  photo ac1685424929087bf1b7e7e0d734f861.jpg

FleetAdmiral_BamBam

GROUP: Members

POSTS: 46297

Report this Oct. 12 2012, 10:02 am

Quote: DS9_FOREVER! @ Oct. 12 2012, 8:40 am

Quote: miklamar @ Oct. 12 2012, 6:35 am

>

>

>Tactics in 3-dimensional space are complex.  As OtakuJo says, a ship's navigation system probably tells by 3-d coordinates.  Otherwise, you can tell when another party starts shooting at you.

>

No question, I'm sure it does.

It's the "thinkness" of the galaxy is what's usually left out of the "geography".

Depends on who's talking.  In 3D, we discuss locations based on X,Y,Z coordinates.  When travel directions were given (other than just saying we're going to a specific location, degrees and marks were given - which is 3D.


Recently logged in

Users browsing this forum: JOYOFVGR

Forum Permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum

You cannot reply to topics in this forum

You cannot delete posts in this forum