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Who was ACTUALLY a better ship's counselor? Troi or Guinan?

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Created by: Green Blooded Bastard

SansDeity

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POSTS: 14

Report this Aug. 27 2012, 8:05 pm

Guinan.  Whenever anyone *really* needed some good advice, they always went to Guinan, not Troi.  Unless we're talking about Broccoli.

blackbare6

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Report this Sep. 05 2012, 2:42 pm

Guinan could give both good advice, AND beer!


'Nuff said.

OtakuJo

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Report this Sep. 06 2012, 2:39 am

Actually that's an interesting question. I'm going to say Guinan because she could work in synchronisity with other people's temperament while Troi often seemed to be working against it. I can't see Troi getting very far with someone like Ro Laren which might be why the writers never had them interact in a Counsellor/Patient capacity.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

miklamar

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Report this Sep. 07 2012, 12:54 pm

Quote: OtakuJo @ Sep. 06 2012, 2:39 am

>

>Actually that's an interesting question. I'm going to say Guinan because she could work in synchronisity with other people's temperament while Troi often seemed to be working against it. I can't see Troi getting very far with someone like Ro Laren which might be why the writers never had them interact in a Counsellor/Patient capacity.

>


I'd never thought about Troi trying to counsel Ro Laren.  I don't think many people got along well with Ro, except perhaps Geordi.  Not just because of their "ghost story" experience together, but also because Geordi thought logically, like an engineer, so he didn't get as hung up on emotions.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

randy kerr

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Report this Sep. 07 2012, 5:38 pm

i will say both of them.

vulcannervepinch

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Report this Sep. 07 2012, 6:16 pm

There was something distracing about Troi...


 

Christopher.D.Norton.writ
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Report this Sep. 09 2012, 3:39 am

Per visit Guinan; but Troy was sort of forced to do it more; however there was something a bit racist about the depiction of Troi, as if to say "you know that hot Latin girl you saw on the street, she would not really be a good teacher or whatever, b/c she's too instinctual and sexually charged and sexually fixated to actually do a good job, better just keep then on welfare and ready for white men to have affairs with whenever they are bored"

Commander_Zelkar

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Report this Sep. 09 2012, 7:37 am

Quote: Christopher.D.Norton.writer.activist @ Sep. 09 2012, 3:39 am

>

class="MsoNormal">Per visit Guinan; but Troy was sort of forced to do it more; however there was something a bit racist about the depiction of Troi, as if to say "you know that hot Latin girl you saw on the street, she would not really be a good teacher or whatever, b/c she's too instinctual and sexually charged and sexually fixated to actually do a good job, better just keep then on welfare and ready for white men to have affairs with whenever they are bored"

>


Dude, what does this even mean? This looks like pseudo-activist gibberish. You could find racism anywhere and everywhere if thats' what you have an obsession with, and have a mindset to find.


There's a kind of freedom in being totally screwed, you know things can't get any worse.

Tamcat

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Report this Sep. 09 2012, 1:45 pm

I think Guinan was better at being useful and productive with her councelling approach, whereas Troi was more empathetic (obviously) and better at sympathy. 

Christopher.D.Norton.writ
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Report this Sep. 09 2012, 3:36 pm

Yes every culture on earth is racist, but most of my experience has been first hand, having a part Jewish part black mother and Irish catholic father; and being raised in the burbs of a small city, despite my parents being from nyc; when I moved to the city those burbs were of, most of them there not commuting form rural areas were from nyc and most of those who were not criminals were Latin Americans, so I dated many of them and heard lots of their stories of racism; latter when exploring the world met women all over and both saw what they went through and saw people's reaction to me.  So I am not trying to say that "that person is innately evil because he had racism in his soul", I agree with you it’s in everyone's soul; but that doesn't negate our reasoning for dealing with it, it validates it, showing that we must all look to our better natures, and sometimes which sides of people's natures they were looking for is quite disturbing, and quite clear to anyone of a multicultural background with friend and girlfriends of nearly every race one can imagine.  And what I said is almost directly what the first Latin woman I dated told me was the biggest problem with America’s treatment of them (although I am guessing they were going for a Mediterranean not Latin look, they even admit on the DVD documentaries that they were looking for someone exotic), which was that Anglo society often tries to box them into "just being sexual objects" so it’s not pseudo when it is representing what a people say about their problems, but are too afraid to say anything about themselves, because they know full well drawing attention to it only hurts their chances of not being seen primarily by their race.


Live long and prosper because it is a good day to die

OtakuJo

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Report this Sep. 10 2012, 6:01 am

Quote: Christopher.D.Norton.writer.activist @ Sep. 09 2012, 3:39 am

>

class="MsoNormal">Per visit Guinan; but Troy was sort of forced to do it more; however there was something a bit racist about the depiction of Troi, as if to say "you know that hot Latin girl you saw on the street, she would not really be a good teacher or whatever, b/c she's too instinctual and sexually charged and sexually fixated to actually do a good job, better just keep then on welfare and ready for white men to have affairs with whenever they are bored"

>


Funny you should mention that because Roddenberry had originally considered casting Marina Sirtis as Yar and Denise Crosby as Troi... would that have been preferable to you??! (Would not have been preferable to me! I think he made the right choice definitely!)


------------------------------------------------


It's more the "idea" of having a counsellor on the Enterprise: There was a DS9 episode Sound of Her Voice where O'Brien pretty much summed up the idea in a single sentence as far as counsellors went: "Sometimes all you need are good friends." There was something very conventional about Troi's counselling style that worked on some people but didn't tend to work on the more outsider characters -- she always seemed awkward when advising Worf about how to raise his son. Guinan just seemed to have a more flexible approach with everyone.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

JK1701

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Report this Sep. 10 2012, 6:17 am

Quote: OtakuJo @ Sep. 10 2012, 6:01 am

Quote: Christopher.D.Norton.writer.activist @ Sep. 09 2012, 3:39 am

>

>

class="MsoNormal">Per visit Guinan; but Troy was sort of forced to do it more; however there was something a bit racist about the depiction of Troi, as if to say "you know that hot Latin girl you saw on the street, she would not really be a good teacher or whatever, b/c she's too instinctual and sexually charged and sexually fixated to actually do a good job, better just keep then on welfare and ready for white men to have affairs with whenever they are bored"

>

Funny you should mention that because Roddenberry had originally considered casting Marina Sirtis as Yar and Denise Crosby as Troi... would that have been preferable to you??! (Would not have been preferable to me! I think he made the right choice definitely!)

------------------------------------------------

It's more the "idea" of having a counsellor on the Enterprise: There was a DS9 episode Sound of Her Voice where O'Brien pretty much summed up the idea in a single sentence as far as counsellors went: "Sometimes all you need are good friends." There was something very conventional about Troi's counselling style that worked on some people but didn't tend to work on the more outsider characters -- she always seemed awkward when advising Worf about how to raise his son. Guinan just seemed to have a more flexible approach with everyone.


No, it wouldn't have been preferable to him. If they had done that, he would have said something about how the Latin girl is just thrown in front of danger so they can try and get rid of her, and then when Yar died in Skin Of Evil, he would have said "Oh, look! They killed the Latin girl just so they could replace her with a man." And it wouldn't have even mattered to him that it was a black man, which is also considered to be a minority race in this country. He's just someone like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton that can't let go of racism, most likely because he makes money off of stirring up trouble with it. People like him see racism in every glance, every movement of everyone's head and hands. He can't see anything else because, as Zelkar pointed out, that's all he's fixated on. Dude, you need to get a life and stop acting like the world is against you. Your life will be a whole lot happier.


Ahh, Kirk, my old friend. Do you know the Klingon proverb which tells us revenge is a dish that is best served cold? It's very cold....in space.

Christopher.D.Norton.writ
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Report this Sep. 10 2012, 6:54 am

He told Tasha she was tooo much like one of those Hitchcock roles, and M S. said they wanted someone with more of an exotic look, is how she said it was expressed to her; they had originally auditioned for the other parts, and he liked both actresses seperately; but thought they had auditioned for the wrong parts.  Season 1 or 2 special features


Live long and prosper because it is a good day to die

CounselorSullivan

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Report this Sep. 10 2012, 2:29 pm

I think I would vote that Troi is a better counselor since she is actually a counselor, but when I think about it, I think both Troi and Guinan have an equal amount of wisdom and expertise. Troi's strength comes from her studies, although her ability is also a plus. Guinan's strength comes from experience, because she's been there. So, what's better, wisdom or experience? That's a tough question. So, my answer, in the end, would be that I think both Troi and Guinan are great counselors. There's no way I could choose between the two.

alieninwhite_1477972168

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Report this Sep. 11 2012, 7:31 pm

With all due respect to Marina, I think they hired her for her look. I watched an interview with Gene in which he said he wanted also a gorgeous chick for the role of Guinan.

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