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Augments

Nakal

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POSTS: 50

Report this Aug. 12 2012, 1:27 am

Considering the success of genetic enhancements on Dr. Julian Bashir, would using augments against the Dominion have been a wise move?


All the best,Wayne

Broadstorm

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POSTS: 828

Report this Aug. 12 2012, 4:26 am

That's an interesting idea.  Using the augments specifically for combat would likely have led to the more focused development of higher aggression which was apparently inadvertent result of the original eugenics program back on Earth.  Of course, if other races contributed to it, then there ay have been a better turn out.  The Denobulans used genetic engineering without the problems the Humans had.  Considering the moral dilemma of using a drone as a weapon against the Borg, there would have been a great deal of debate over developing augments for war.  Of course, there is also the issue of how long it would have taken to produce enough to really make a difference.  They might have even turned against the Federation for being bred to be used as weapons.

miklamar

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POSTS: 2159

Report this Aug. 13 2012, 11:08 am

No.  The Augments would be helpful during the war, but what about afterward?  Weren't there troubles with them?


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

kkt

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POSTS: 170

Report this Nov. 04 2012, 11:21 pm

The original series and The Wrath of Khan were about genetically enhanced soldiers.  The Federation seems to have very strong morals and laws against them.  Actually I'm surprised the allowed Bashir to stay in Starfleet; not only are the genetically-enhanced not allowed to join in the first place, he also lied repeatedly to cover it up, which itself is a court martial offense.

juliansgirl7

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Report this Nov. 05 2012, 7:07 am

 not only are the genetically-enhanced not allowed to join in the first place, he also lied repeatedly to cover it up, which itself is a court martial offense.


State sanctioned discrimination!


"Your quality will be known among your enemies before ever you meet them, my friend"-Alexander Siddig in Kingdom of Heaven

miklamar

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POSTS: 2159

Report this Nov. 05 2012, 7:11 am

There was another TNG episode, where genetically enhanced soldiers were sent to a prison world after the war, when they were no longer needed. And, I think Voyager had an episode where androids created to fight a war wiped out their creators, then continued or resumed their war, as kind of a game.  Soldiers/military people love to use their toys.


Weren't genetically enhanced people causing problems in a Dr. Pulaski episode, too?


People who are too much smarter than their coworkers get bored too easily.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Nov. 05 2012, 2:57 pm

Quote: Nakal @ Aug. 12 2012, 1:27 am

>

>Considering the success of genetic enhancements on Dr. Julian Bashir, would using augments against the Dominion have been a wise move?

>


The question really depends on, using them in what sense? Having the augments as an advisory team was a good idea. Having them as replacement soldiers would not be.


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

Pooneil

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POSTS: 1023

Report this Nov. 05 2012, 8:36 pm

Are we talking about recruiting volunteers to turn into super-soldiers, like Captain America, or creating specially-augmented people from scratch, like the Jem'hadar?


The problem with the first idea is that, once the war is won, you'd be left with a genetically engineered army with nothing to do. That was explored in TNG's "The Hunted", a very good episode even if it was basically "First Blood" all over again. Assuming these super-soldiers don't go all Rambo on you, you'd still be stuck with a bunch of mentally and physically superior people who will either be alienated from society, or try to take it over. (After all, they'd be smarter than everyone else). One way or another it would just cause trouble. Once you start messing around with genetic engineering, you might as well just grow an evil mustache and start singing along to Wagner's Ring Cycle.


The problem with the second idea is that, well, it would be slavery, which is kind of wrong.

juliansgirl7

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Report this Nov. 06 2012, 6:29 am

And for people like JULIAN and the jack Pack, It was their parents that had them enhanced to correct defects. I t had noth to do with building armies.  These kids are being penalized for the actions of their parents.  They didn't choose to be enhanced. So putting barriers to their career choices because they're enhanced is really punishing them instead of the parents


"Your quality will be known among your enemies before ever you meet them, my friend"-Alexander Siddig in Kingdom of Heaven

username8434

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POSTS: 40

Report this Nov. 06 2012, 11:17 am

the way to get around that would be to enhance everything that's only necessary. like strength and intelligence. but decrease there destructive traits. only make small groups for specific tasks. like a enhanced pilot, great eyes fast thinking but not aggressive. keep small groups of soldiers with aggressive traits, in small groups they could be complete a task quieter and faster then a large group, and will also be easier to control.

OtakuJo

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Report this Nov. 06 2012, 3:50 pm

See that's where the real problems come in -- where the rhetoric becomes not about personal rights of people, but making them "easier to control".


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

dreem24

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POSTS: 70

Report this Nov. 06 2012, 4:55 pm

Enhance everything not just the aggression by 2.0 but and the moral by 2.0 and you have a balance let's say the person is 4.0 aggressive and 0.5 morale the simple he'll be 6.0 aggressive and 2.5 agressive that aside why not enhance all humans and there you have it there children will have enhancments by default...


 


imagine a human with no sickness,no fear from radiation,no need for oxygen,sunlight,food and water,sleep...


 


If we could make the eyes to see 100% more their signals to the brain to be stronger the brain to be able to take 300v and not die and so forth...


 


But we can't...

DUKAT!!!!

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POSTS: 63

Report this Nov. 06 2012, 5:04 pm

Quote: dreem24 @ Nov. 06 2012, 4:55 pm

>

>Enhance everything not just the aggression by 2.0 but and the moral by 2.0 and you have a balance let's say the person is 4.0 aggressive and 0.5 morale the simple he'll be 6.0 aggressive and 2.5 agressive that aside why not enhance all humans and there you have it there children will have enhancments by default...

>imagine a human with no sickness,no fear from radiation,no need for oxygen,sunlight,food and water,sleep...

>If we could make the eyes to see 100% more their signals to the brain to be stronger the brain to be able to take 300v and not die and so forth...

>But we can't...

>


It sounds like a good idea, but as Bashir himself would say, then that person would cease to be human. It's one thing to enhance power. It's another to try and create a god.


Starfleet has rules against augments not only because they once took over, but also because it is immoral.


DUKAT!!!!! -Major Kira

miklamar

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POSTS: 2159

Report this Nov. 26 2012, 7:13 am

I always thought Captain Kirk was an augment, although it was never said.  He was able to defeat practically every foe in combat and to at least hold his own against Vulcans.  That always gave me the impression that he was bred specifically to be a starship captain.


Var Miklama--Zakdorn, engineer. "A sound mind in a FULL body!" "Time, like latinum, is a limited quantity in the galaxy."

OtakuJo

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POSTS: 16362

Report this Nov. 27 2012, 3:11 am

That would be an interesting alternate theory to explore -- although as you say, it was never expressly stated or even implied. Generally I put it down to the whole "hero" thing, where a main hero can always take down up to twenty bad guys even when the audience is told that they are supposed to be stronger than him.


It's only logical...


Have you ever danced with a Tribble in the pale moonlight?

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