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Nemesis hate

Fun123fun8

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POSTS: 399

Report this May. 22 2012, 5:19 pm

I havnt seen nemsis but im hopeing i wont becuse Data dies and i just want to avoid that.


want a hug

Mitchz95

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POSTS: 1830

Report this May. 22 2012, 5:23 pm

Quote: Fun123fun8 @ May. 22 2012, 5:19 pm

>

>I havnt seen nemsis but im hopeing i wont becuse Data dies and i just want to avoid that.

>


You shouldn't avoid the movie just because of that!


"The future is in the hands of those who explore... And from all the beauty they discover while crossing perpetually receding frontiers, they develop for nature and for humankind an infinite love." - Jacques Yves Cousteau

entropyman

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POSTS: 127

Report this May. 22 2012, 6:18 pm

Definitely not. It's worth watching for sure. Think of it as a decent, though flawed tv episode (with terrific fx).

lostshaker

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Report this May. 23 2012, 8:34 am

I recently came across a website called fanedit.org where fans take movies and reedit them according to their own tastes. Star Trek: Nemesis has won fanedit of the month. The movie has been trimmed down to an 1hr 10 minutes and plays like an extended episode of TNG. While it doesn't solve every complaint listed in this thread - there's just no way to prevent Data's death - many other issues have been excised. It's a great edit and I recommend giving it a try.


Additionally, fans have created amazing reedits of the Star Wars prequels. One even omitted the midichlorians and the prophecy altogether. The site is addicting.


In both cases, Nemesis and Star Wars, it really goes to show that the fans are spot on... they know the characters and can specifically identify problems with these films - apparently, even more so than the film makers.

RStar17

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POSTS: 382

Report this May. 23 2012, 10:39 am

Despite my pointing out every error the movie makes(and there are a lot of them) in detail, it's still worth seeing, don't get me wrong there. Bad trek is definitely better than no trek.


Really, I just wish the writers would know the material before they submit a script. Continuity is a good thing.


Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this May. 23 2012, 7:14 pm

It makes me ill that so many people's primary (or only) reason for disliking the film is that Data dies.


Really, folks? Everything dies eventually. it was a necessary moment in the film...and brought closure to the arc of the character. Did you hate Star Trek II because Spock died too?


 


Weird.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this May. 23 2012, 7:19 pm

Quote: RStar17 @ May. 23 2012, 10:39 am

>

>Despite my pointing out every error the movie makes(and there are a lot of them) in detail, it's still worth seeing, don't get me wrong there. Bad trek is definitely better than no trek.

>Really, I just wish the writers would know the material before they submit a script. Continuity is a good thing.

>


 


Continuity is only a good thing if it supports stories. The moment having a franchise with an intricate continuity starts hampering original ideas or creativity, it needs to be thrown out the window.


Star Trek was buckling under the weight of it's own continuity at the time Nemesis was released.


I, for one, as a fan of over 30 years, really could give two craps about continuity (within reason, obvously). Just tell me a good story. I don't really care if the deck Picard's cabin is supposed to be on is wrong, or if Vulcan has a moon or doesn't have a moon. It's meaningless except to fans who feel the need to immerse themseves in a "real" universe.


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RStar17

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POSTS: 382

Report this May. 23 2012, 9:53 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ May. 23 2012, 7:19 pm

Quote: RStar17 @ May. 23 2012, 10:39 am

>

>

>Despite my pointing out every error the movie makes(and there are a lot of them) in detail, it's still worth seeing, don't get me wrong there. Bad trek is definitely better than no trek.

>Really, I just wish the writers would know the material before they submit a script. Continuity is a good thing.

>

 

Continuity is only a good thing if it supports stories. The moment having a franchise with an intricate continuity starts hampering original ideas or creativity, it needs to be thrown out the window.

Star Trek was buckling under the weight of it's own continuity at the time Nemesis was released.

I, for one, as a fan of over 30 years, really could give two craps about continuity (within reason, obvously). Just tell me a good story. I don't really care if the deck Picard's cabin is supposed to be on is wrong, or if Vulcan has a moon or doesn't have a moon. It's meaningless except to fans who feel the need to immerse themseves in a "real" universe.


Getting minor details like that doesn't interfere with the story. It's just laziness on the writers part. A good story will still be good, a bad story will still be bad. The little things and getting them right enhance the plot.


Nemesis is just a below average plot overall that over compensates with special effects.


 


Blockman

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POSTS: 520

Report this May. 24 2012, 5:08 am

Quote Entropyman @ May 22 2012, 9:18 pm


"Definitely not. It's worth watching for sure. Think of it as a decent, though flawed tv episode (with terrific fx)."


 


Yep


Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this May. 24 2012, 7:35 am

Quote: RStar17 @ May. 23 2012, 9:53 pm

Quote: Vger23 @ May. 23 2012, 7:19 pm

Quote: RStar17 @ May. 23 2012, 10:39 am

>

>

>

>Despite my pointing out every error the movie makes(and there are a lot of them) in detail, it's still worth seeing, don't get me wrong there. Bad trek is definitely better than no trek.

>Really, I just wish the writers would know the material before they submit a script. Continuity is a good thing.

>

 

Continuity is only a good thing if it supports stories. The moment having a franchise with an intricate continuity starts hampering original ideas or creativity, it needs to be thrown out the window.

Star Trek was buckling under the weight of it's own continuity at the time Nemesis was released.

I, for one, as a fan of over 30 years, really could give two craps about continuity (within reason, obvously). Just tell me a good story. I don't really care if the deck Picard's cabin is supposed to be on is wrong, or if Vulcan has a moon or doesn't have a moon. It's meaningless except to fans who feel the need to immerse themseves in a "real" universe.

Getting minor details like that doesn't interfere with the story. It's just laziness on the writers part. A good story will still be good, a bad story will still be bad. The little things and getting them right enhance the plot.

Nemesis is just a below average plot overall that over compensates with special effects.

 


I wasn't arguing whether the story was 'good" or "bad," (which is completely subjective, by the way). I was simply arguing that my enjoyment of a Star Trek movie has nothing to do with the accuracy of the canon or continuity.


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Matthias Russell

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Report this May. 24 2012, 8:01 am

I for one enjoy something less if its continuity doesn't work.  Just like a movie sucks if there is no continuity within its 2 hours of screen time, a franchise is harmed if it doesn't maintain continuity within its entirety.


The problem with Star Trek is maintaining continuity with all the stuff from the 60s and with early TNG before they had better editorial controls in place. 


The weight of continuity also has not harmed Trek.  The authors of the books these days have been able to tell amazing stories while respecting everything that has come beofre as well as current books.  In fact, I think the books are presently telling better tales than television did.  the primary differnce?  The creativity and quality of the writers.

Matthias Russell

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Report this May. 24 2012, 8:15 am

Quote: Vger23 @ May. 23 2012, 7:14 pm

>It makes me ill that so many people's primary (or only) reason for disliking the film is that Data dies.

>Really, folks? Everything dies eventually. it was a necessary moment in the film...and brought closure to the arc of the character. Did you hate Star Trek II because Spock died too?

>


Good point about STII.  However, Data's death wasn't as well written and seemed forced, as if the writers just needed to find a way to kill Data instead of it being a logical outcome.  Plus, Spiner wanted Data killed off. But if he wanted Data killed?  Why bring B4 into the story?  I think B4 was a terrible idea, myself.  Removing B4 would have improved Nemesis more than killing Data harmed it.  I also think Data's death would have been better had they not cut the scene where Data and Picard are discussing change over a bottle of wine.


The power of Data's death was an immortal creature sacrificing himself for a mortal one who had less days ahead than behind.  But since Data had the ability to live forever, he wasn't facing "dying eventually" or "closure".


But not watching Nemeisis because Data dies is like NOT watching Voyager because they make it home in the end.  Sure the ending could have been better but there are many, many bigger issues to hate over.


randy kerr

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POSTS: 425

Report this May. 24 2012, 9:27 am

it was awesome.

Pooneil

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POSTS: 1023

Report this May. 24 2012, 10:49 am

I didn't hate it either. Hate is a very strong word; I don't waste my time hating movies.


That said, "Nemesis" just wasn't very good. The villain was a large ham, the direction was lousy, the whole thing was dark and noisy and not, IMO, especially Trek-like. It looked cheaper than the TV series.


Two things I can appreciate: the writer remembered that Troi was an empath, and he gave the ship seatbelts.

Vger23

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POSTS: 6799

Report this May. 24 2012, 5:12 pm

Quote: Matthias Russell @ May. 24 2012, 8:15 am

Quote: Vger23 @ May. 23 2012, 7:14 pm

>

>It makes me ill that so many people's primary (or only) reason for disliking the film is that Data dies.

>Really, folks? Everything dies eventually. it was a necessary moment in the film...and brought closure to the arc of the character. Did you hate Star Trek II because Spock died too?

>

Good point about STII.  However, Data's death wasn't as well written and seemed forced, as if the writers just needed to find a way to kill Data instead of it being a logical outcome.  Plus, Spiner wanted Data killed off. But if he wanted Data killed?  Why bring B4 into the story?  I think B4 was a terrible idea, myself.  Removing B4 would have improved Nemesis more than killing Data harmed it.  I also think Data's death would have been better had they not cut the scene where Data and Picard are discussing change over a bottle of wine.

The power of Data's death was an immortal creature sacrificing himself for a mortal one who had less days ahead than behind.  But since Data had the ability to live forever, he wasn't facing "dying eventually" or "closure".

But not watching Nemeisis because Data dies is like NOT watching Voyager because they make it home in the end.  Sure the ending could have been better but there are many, many bigger issues to hate over.


 


I agree that it wasn't well written. It didn't pack the emotional punch that Spock dying or even the Enterprise self-destructing in TSFS had. That was a moment that needed to succeed from a dramatic standpoint, and it did not.


 


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